Help...car won't start

[philhan]

Ok, I have a MY 99 996, six speed manual that has been my daily driver for most of it's life. My daily commute to work is around 80 miles but LA traffic has been so bad that I have been driving my automatic Land Rover instead. So I haven't driven the 996 in about a week. I started her up yesterday, Sunday, to pull her out of the garage into the drive way....no problems. Shut her off, spent some time giving her some much needed love washing and waxing, then I start her up. :jump: No problems drive her 10 feet into the garage and shut her off. I was looking forward to driving her to work, got in this morning and I started it. The engine fired and right before it was about catch it just dies. I tried two more times and nothing. I check my radio...no problem, all the interior lights are on, the flashers work and I turn on the headlights the sidemarkers come on but the two front lights are out. I read the voltage meter and it reads 12. Which I think it was before but would always be up at 14 when I got her fully warmed up.

My thinking: Its got to be a fuel problem or electrial problem and my suspicion is the battery. Any thoughts? I plan on calling AAA later this afternoon for them to check my battery and if that's not it I'm having her towed to the dealer. Anyone experience something like this before? I am so sad. :(

[1999Porsche911]

Ok, I have a MY 99 996, six speed manual that has been my daily driver for most of it's life. My daily commute to work is around 80 miles but LA traffic has been so bad that I have been driving my automatic Land Rover instead. So I haven't driven the 996 in about a week. I started her up yesterday, Sunday, to pull her out of the garage into the drive way....no problems. Shut her off, spent some time giving her some much needed love washing and waxing, then I start her up. :jump: No problems drive her 10 feet into the garage and shut her off. I was looking forward to driving her to work, got in this morning and I started it. The engine fired and right before it was about catch it just dies. I tried two more times and nothing. I check my radio...no problem, all the interior lights are on, the flashers work and I turn on the headlights the sidemarkers come on but the two front lights are out. I read the voltage meter and it reads 12. Which I think it was before but would always be up at 14 when I got her fully warmed up.

My thinking: Its got to be a fuel problem or electrial problem and my suspicion is the battery. Any thoughts? I plan on calling AAA later this afternoon for them to check my battery and if that's not it I'm having her towed to the dealer. Anyone experience something like this before? I am so sad. :(

On fuel injected cars, sometime just starting it and then turning it off will flood the cylinders with fuel. Try letting it sit for the day and try again then run it til warm.

[muranomike]

I can only contribute my experience in 02' 996.

Was getting a couple wierd warning lites (like roll over, and oil sensor failure) for a few weeks before. Starter seemed to drag a couple times when starting. Then Car wouldn't start. Battery voltmeter read normal. Couldn't even boost it. Changed battery with a NAPA battery and no problems, don't get any warning lights anymore either.

The batteries apparently are only good for about 4 years, maybe 5 max. So if you have original battery would suggest that might be place to start. Also suggest not getting Porsche battery as they charge an arm and a leg and are not as good as 3rd party batteries.

Hope that helps

[philhan]

Thanks for the replies guys:

So if I do need a new battery you suggest aftermarket?

What type of Napa battery did you get Mike?

[philhan]

Thanks for the replies guys:

So if I do need a new battery you suggest aftermarket?

What type of Napa battery did you get Mike?

Ok Loren sorry I answered my own question by searching, found this thread:

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?s...446entry14446

[1999Porsche911]

Thanks for the replies guys:

So if I do need a new battery you suggest aftermarket?

What type of Napa battery did you get Mike?

The way I understand your post, you have NO problem with the battery. The engine cranks fine but will just not catch and keep going?

[philhan]

The way I understand your post, you have NO problem with the battery. The engine cranks fine but will just not catch and keep going?

Yes the engine cranked fine the first time and felt like the engine was about to catch but nothing. I tried it the second time and the engine did not fire up and the third time even less so. I stopped after that. The reason I pointed to the battery was the fact that my two front headlights didn't light up and I thought my battery, while not totally drained since it did crank, was too weak to fire up all the pistons. I am going to AutoZone this afternoon and just pickup a new battery--it's been six years on the original one, so i think it should be replaced anyway. Hopefully that will solve the problem.

[Loren]

it's been six years on the original one

IMHO, you are lucky it started at all with a 6 year battery. Whether it turns out to be the problem or not you needed a new battery.

[Scouser]

Defo need a new battery.

But you said it does crank over but doesnt catch. If the battery was dead or defective you would hear the cranking slow down and eventually after say 20 turns max it would die. If I am right then the new batter (despite the fact that its defo needed) will just mean you can crank the engine over for ages.

You said you washed your car prior to this happening. How vigorous did you wash your car? Did you power spray it? Maybe get water into the electrics....MAF, plugs etc. Once I power cleaned the underneath of my car and in the arches and did it a bit over zealously. The car would not start. Thankfully I had a new battery. After about 10 separate goes cranking the engine with say an hour between goes it finally started. Spluttered....backfired......then after about 500yds ran smoothly. Has done ever since.

Finally you kight want to check the fuse. I think its row 3 from the top, first fuse on the left. SHould be a 20amp fuse for ignition. If that's blown or loose your car wont start......and BTW, I remove that from my car when I go away on business.....just in case ;)

[philhan]

it's been six years on the original one

IMHO, you are lucky it started at all with a 6 year battery. Whether it turns out to be the problem or not you needed a new battery.

Hey Loren...yup your right, so I will replace the battery tonight and report with results, hopefully my luck will continue and it will just be the battery.

From what I've been reading taking out and replacing the battery is pretty straightforward. But are there any special or unique tools I need to do this?

[Scouser]

it's been six years on the original one

IMHO, you are lucky it started at all with a 6 year battery. Whether it turns out to be the problem or not you needed a new battery.

Hey Loren...yup your right, so I will replace the battery tonight and report with results, hopefully my luck will continue and it will just be the battery.

From what I've been reading taking out and replacing the battery is pretty straightforward. But are there any special or unique tools I need to do this?

No. if its an exact same swap then its a 5 minute job.......dont forget to note your radio code ;)

[philhan]

Ok changed to a brand new battery...same thing WTF! :cursing:

Any ideas?

[philhan]

I think it's a fuel delivery problem.

When I start the car, with new battery, and give it gas the engine seems to fire but when I let go of the gas the car dies. Car has half of tank of gas, always used Chevron Super, idled and ran perfectly just the day before so I have no idea what happened. So I'm thinking it's beyond the scope of what I can fix so I guess I have to take the car to the dealer. :(

[philhan]

Defo need a new battery.

But you said it does crank over but doesnt catch. If the battery was dead or defective you would hear the cranking slow down and eventually after say 20 turns max it would die. If I am right then the new batter (despite the fact that its defo needed) will just mean you can crank the engine over for ages.

You said you washed your car prior to this happening. How vigorous did you wash your car? Did you power spray it? Maybe get water into the electrics....MAF, plugs etc. Once I power cleaned the underneath of my car and in the arches and did it a bit over zealously. The car would not start. Thankfully I had a new battery. After about 10 separate goes cranking the engine with say an hour between goes it finally started. Spluttered....backfired......then after about 500yds ran smoothly. Has done ever since.

Finally you kight want to check the fuse. I think its row 3 from the top, first fuse on the left. SHould be a 20amp fuse for ignition. If that's blown or loose your car wont start......and BTW, I remove that from my car when I go away on business.....just in case ;)

Hi Scouser:

I can't stop thinking what went wrong....and the only thing I can think of is the car wash. I re-read what you wrote and while I just used a regular hose I did rinse the rear archwells really well. I took a real close look and everything seemed to have dried out. I have a tow truck scheduled for tomorrow morning at 7 and I will try to start it before he comes. Man what a way to start a Monday; My other guess as to what's wrong is that the car is pissed off at me for not having driven her in a week. I won't make the same mistake again.

Thanks for everyone's replies it's nice to get some advice and also to vent.

Phil

[1999Porsche911]

Try removing and cleaning the Idle Control Valve on the left side of the throttle body. Spray with carb cleaner. This is assuming you have a C2 and not a C4.

[Izzy]

Fuel supply could be it, Phil. The pump could have gone bad. Not sure if there is a fuel pump fuse, but check it out first. The other part is the fuel pump relay, on positon 13 of the relays.

Take the relay out and see if it behaves the same when you try the ignition.

The dealer can actuate the pump with their tester and see if is the pump or relay, if it indeed one of them is the culprit.

Please keep us informed, I got a '99 too and will probably get the gremlins to visit me eventually.

Have you changed the fuel filter, being a '99? It would not change overnight like you described, but can prevent fuel to get to the engine.

Last ditch, any codes being recorded if you have a OBDII code reader?

[philhan]

Fuel supply could be it, Phil. The pump could have gone bad. Not sure if there is a fuel pump fuse, but check it out first. The other part is the fuel pump relay, on positon 13 of the relays.

Take the relay out and see if it behaves the same when you try the ignition.

The dealer can actuate the pump with their tester and see if is the pump or relay, if it indeed one of them is the culprit.

Please keep us informed, I got a '99 too and will probably get the gremlins to visit me eventually.

Have you changed the fuel filter, being a '99? It would not change overnight like you described, but can prevent fuel to get to the engine.

Last ditch, any codes being recorded if you have a OBDII code reader?

Hey Izzy thx. for the reply and I will let you know what happens.

Funny thing this morning, it was a two hour ordeal and had two AAA guys come out in two tow trucks to get my car on the flatbed. Because I didn't drive it after it was just washed we had a hell of a time trying to get the thing unstuck and of course the tow hook wouldn't screw in from the back so all three of us were trying to push that thing. But I had to commend the two AAA guys they really knew what they were doing. But on our way to the dealership the guy was telling me that he has been towing a lot of 911's recently, most of them being 05 and newer models with total engine failure. Of course that didn't make me feel good.

[philhan]

Try removing and cleaning the Idle Control Valve on the left side of the throttle body. Spray with carb cleaner. This is assuming you have a C2 and not a C4.

....well according to the dealer you are right. They want to replace the idle control valve. They quoted me a price of $940 parts and labor. Does that sound right? I normally go to the dealer in Torrance and trust my service advisor there but I didn't want tow it so far since the Beverly Hills Porsche Service Center, which is in Santa Monica, is like 10 blocks away. This is my first time there.

[1999Porsche911]

Try removing and cleaning the Idle Control Valve on the left side of the throttle body. Spray with carb cleaner. This is assuming you have a C2 and not a C4.

....well according to the dealer you are right. They want to replace the idle control valve. They quoted me a price of $940 parts and labor. Does that sound right? I normally go to the dealer in Torrance and trust my service advisor there but I didn't want tow it so far since the Beverly Hills Porsche Service Center, which is in Santa Monica, is like 10 blocks away. This is my first time there.

The Bosch part for the ICV is less than $200 and you can get it from Autozone. Install takes 5 minutes. I would first remove it (2 screws) and spray it with carb cleaner. These sometimes gum up and do not operate correctly. You cannot hurt it by spraying.

[Izzy]

Phil,

If it is the throttle control valve, it may be more of 10 minutes for me. The part for the 1999 is not expensive either, since it is not a potentiometer. I have done the job before, used carb cleaner also to clean the crud that accumulates on the throttle body butterfly as well as removing the switch and cleaning it. Here are some pictures, 4 bolts to remove the throttle body (and be careful with the paper gasket behind it), put on a bench and spray the cleaner on it. I used an old tootbrush too to remove the crud.

7.5 ftlbs of torque on the bolts. Of course, you got to take out the airbox and hose to get to the throttle body.

That is assuming they are calling the throttle control the "idle control valve". I did not see any "idle control valve" in the manuals that I have.

[Loren]

Item 7 in your diagram is the Idle Control Valve. Item 4 is the fragile paper gasket for it.

Only MY99 C2 996's are non-egas and have the ICV. C4's and all later 996's have egas so they do not have the ICV.

[Izzy]

Thank you Loren. Phil, for $900, I could fly out to Santa Monica with the wife, spend the weekend, and change the part. Save you $40.

In other words, an easy to do job, shouldn't cost that much at the dealer.

[philhan]

Thank you Loren. Phil, for $900, I could fly out to Santa Monica with the wife, spend the weekend, and change the part. Save you $40.

In other words, an easy to do job, shouldn't cost that much at the dealer.

Hahah...next time I need something done I'll send you an email.

Ok so everyone's replies helped me convince that I'm better off doing it myself. I called the dealer back requesting not to have the work done and that I'll be towing the car back. But they wanted $300 ($145 an hour X2 for labor) spent trying to figure out the problem. So then I started adding the numbers $300 plus the part itself plus the time having her towed back to my house made me bite the bullet and let them do it. Of course now I feel like i'm being fleeced and that I have a big "sucker" sign on my forehead...doh!

But I was told I can pick her up today and I am a glad it was nothing too serious.

Thanks again though for everyone's help. :renntech:

And Loren I know I'm a cheapie since I'm not a "contributing" member but I will be right after this email. This site is awesome.

Phil