My Horror Story With GHL MOTORSPORTS.. Buyer Beware

[Cameron75]

I have owned a 996 Techart Widebody and have now, a 987S which recently went under the knife, got GIAC Tuning, H&R Springs/Swaybars, B&M Short Shifter and what this nightmare is all about... A GHL EXAUST SYSTEM for my 987S.... The original thread on my experience was made before I ever made it into there shop and what the deal entailed along with what work was in the agreement.

It is a very long and heated thread, gets nasty, is unexagerated as you will see from story start until after my return home and the exaust sound, fit and how they GHL MOTORSPORTS builds the exausts they sell Porsche owners. I am going to direct different model owners to my original thread because it involves anyone considering making a GHL purchase.. Biggest mistake of my life was buying from them, and I may have to live with it because it became a very costly mistake I may not be able to afford.

The original thread is on rennlist.com in the 987 Forum. It has the most views in the 987 Section and is very good reading. I am going to post the conclusion to get your interest. But the thread starts with the excitement of an excited new Porsche Owner just trying to get a free exaust by letting it be GHL's Guinea Pig... :soapbox:

Below is a cut and paste of the Jist of the situation at hand....... :eek:

For anyone following this thread I am a new 987S owner and was researching buying an exaust, GHL seemed to be a good alternative because there products were very cost effective. When I contacted them I was enticed into a deal in which I brought my car (still under 1000 miles on the clock) to them which added an additional 1000 miles for the before and after trip. I was hesitant until "Bryan" added in a set of equal length headers and race cats in the package. This made me jump.

A week and a bit later I was in my car driving to Mesa, AZ to where shop was.When I got there the guys seemed friendly enough, but my god, talk about bad mouthing other companies. The first hitch was when they told me they couldn't even start the car for a couple days because they had an order that was "priority". They insisted I rent a car so my car could stay in the shop telling me "MAYBE" they could squeeze it in if time permitted. I found it odd that they were so busy yet Bryan was rarely there and Jeff sat at his desk the WHOLE TIME posting on a couple different web forums. Everytime I came into the office he'd put his computer to sleep. I assume he was posting wonderful reviews on GHL and it's products. They are sooo sketchy. So there I was stuck in AZ having to pay an additional 75$ x2 for my wonderful Jeep Liberty I'd rented and another 160$ x2 for the hotel. Let's not forget the food. (I eat like a horse)

So I am on day three and it's early am and I am now in the shop. Exaust is off the car, Bryan (the guy I was dealing with 95% of the time) made it clear it wasn't good that i was in the shop. I told him there is no way I want them fiddling around with it unless I was there. So in conclusion I was there. After being under the car I was examining the headers, One of the bolts was snapped off. So either they removed it without telling me. It was that day when things started getting a little. Hmmmmmm Sketchy to say the least. Bryan informs me that he can't do the headers or cats because he doesn't have the time. The shop is just to busy. Great deal now huh. A broken promise, the main reason I came was because he promised me cats and headers..

I was at one point asking some pretty basic but technical questions about why they were using such a large diameter pipe 2.75inch pipe on the car. And asked why the heck they'd mate it to a 2.25 inch flange. Seemed like a bottleneck in the system. (Turns out they were out of the 2.25inch pipe with the right bends and didn't have the right flange)I knew that N/A cars would lose tq with this setup and make the car incredibly loud. They assured me they just needed the jig (the bracket to make the exaust for future customers) so they could shrink the pipe size and ship me another exaust with a smaller pipe if this setup did in fact lose hp or was unmanageably loud. I instisted somebody answer my questions so he ended up calling a very reputable Tuner ( I refuse to name as I do not need to get him involved) Spent a bit of time on the phone with the guy turns out we have a mutual friend whom he does business with as well as a personal friendship. It was then he told me as a gentleman would that these guys are hacks, and that between him and I, I was better off going with some of the higher end companies and spending the dollars as my situation would likely be counter productive. God, that set my alarm off full tilt. Sirens are now blazing in my head. These jacka**eses know LITERALLY NOTHING about mufflers, exausts nor do they work with engine specifics, outputs bla bla. God I know very little and these bozos couldn't answer any of my questions and had to contact another tuner HUGE in the Porsche world who luckily turned out to know one of my good friends and even he told me to watch out.

So finally my car is finished I have spend 5 days in Mesa, spent close to 1200$ on rental car, hotel, food, gas the wonderful commodity of mileage on the clock on top of that great number. Can't forget the work I took off. Considering there 986 exaust is 750$ I am in the hole big time. The only light in this tunnel was the fact that they promised me a another straight pipe with only resonators. The owner of Speed Gallery Dan had one on his 996 Powered Boxter. I heard it and thought it sounded Ferrarish. So alteast I would get that free too. They also promised me they same exaust they had fitted to my car currently, but with 2inch piping to restrict back pressure a bit to retrieve the lost tq from the current exaust. So now matter what I figured hell, I can have a fun exaust with the resonators if I goto the track and the other two I can sell on Ebay and recoup the money I spent on travels.

When I took it for a test drive the drone/ resonance was....... Well lets just say cellphone talk and having any sort of hearing after prolonged usage would be non existent. It had the decibal levels of a muscle car with straight pipe. Car DEFINITELY LOST NOTICEABLE H/P.. Not a small amount either, if it is enough to feel then it is signicant. My car wouldn't screech the tires going into second gear anymore. Bottom end TQ was most effected although High RPM also took a healthy dose of loss.

I thought it was insane that a muffler cannister was pulled off a shelf to fit under my car. It wasn't hand made, it wasn't designed with any sort of specifiecations in mind. Simply a universal fit cannister. It was placed under the car, pipes were welded on boom bam bing. Done. Very Joe Garage style.

So now I am basically at the end of their work day and have this exaust that sounds asbsolutely horrible, resonates louder than an City Bus or an F1 Tomcat but also have a broken bolt on my header (Which leads me to wonder if they actually took off my header to jig it so they could make something even when my car was not there. ???? This I cannot prove.

Upon leaving I SPECIFICALLY asked them to put my stock exaust in a box and even carried it to the front of the shop to make sure it was packed away for shipping. I was warned by a couple friends and have had several experiences with "losing" stock components to shops in which they mysteriously disappear. They refused to put it in the box saying they had to close soon and didn't have a sizeable enough box anyhow for shipping. So finally I was almost pushed out of the store so they could lock up. I swear I considered tying it to the roof. ;-) (Not really) They promised to ship it the very next day along with a two other systems two days following.

This Is What I Was Promised

1) The original system with 2inch piping to match factory pipe size

2) Resonators with 2inch piping.

3) Of course my factory exaust and brackets (Which I may have to pay 2300$ for at the dealer now because these **** exasust are not staying on my car.

4) Originally promised Two german racing cats

5) Orginally promised equal length headers

This Is What I Left With

1) A 2.75 Inch Monster Pipe With An Exaust That Sounds Like Cherry Bombs On Steroids.

2) I left With A Empty Centre Console That Was Originally filled with a handfull of quarters

3) I left Without My Bluetooth Headset That Was Also In my Centre Console

The Only Positive Notes On This Whole Ordeal

1) The welder is pretty good, he did good welds on the system

2) I got three exausts as promised - minus my stock exaust.

3) I have tried all three exausts, all are rediculousy loud so I have been driving my Mini Cooper S 95% of the time, thus saving mileage of the Porsche... If you call that a positive. Never thought i would be ashamed to drive a Porsche! hahaha

4) I had great Mexican Food

*** Beverly Hills Porsche performs my service and Erik Patino Is My Service Advisor For Anyone Who Cares To Doubt My Identity*** When I brought it into Beverly Hills Porsche for a transmission vibration the techs (I am friendly with them) laughed at the exaust telling me it sound like a rice burner with cherry bombs. They also told me the severe vibration I was having in deceleration was the poor fitment of the exaust. The pipe was pressed firmly against the frame of the car. So every time I decelerate it feels as though my tranny has very bad gears due to the exastive resonance...Fun stuff huh? (I haven't even gotten to the good part)

They will not return my stock exaust. This is the same exaust they asked if I was going to keep and mentioned it would be a good idea to cut it open to see what is inside... I am a fool for not Insisting on stuffing the exaust into my car in the passenger seat but the pipes were so long, interior leather perfect. You guys feeling me? Since the car trunk was full I really didn't have any options.

So now more than 6 weeks later and three very ****ty sounding exausts later with HP robbing properties I am left with not much choice but to find a used stock exaust system.... Who knows maybe GHL will sell me one! Pricks....

In conclusion, any who reads this please be warned when considering purchasing anything from GHL. They are hacks at best and are such trash mouths talking all kinds of crap about everyone.. God they should step back and look at themselves. They are unhappy and definitely in the wrong business. Now I have to see if they are a member of the Better Business Bureau to lodge a formal complaint. Then try to see if I have enough on them with phone records, personal records, photos of my car in there shop to bring a small claims judgement against them. So I guess educating people on all of the forums I know of will be my life for two days. I have taken 2 days off from work just to take care of this. I am furious I was duped, and even more angry I was ripped off. In hindsite I should never have left the exaust in the first place even if they had tried to force to out of the shop. I wouldn't suggest bringing a civic in for a tip change to a couple junkyard exaust manufacturers like Jeff and Bryan of GHL MOTORSPORTS : TWO THUMBS DOWN FOR SERVICE, SOUND, FITMENT and B- FOR WELDS! If my final grade for the exausts I am left with.

Last conversation with Jeff and Bryan left me being incredibly nice and asking them to reimburse me for the Stock exaust or finding me a used one or I would bring them to small claims court. I was told word for word that I was a "F*CKING LIAR, ROBERT (I believe an employee) WRAPPED IT IN PLASTIC AND HELPED YOU LOAD IT IN YOUR TRUNK WHEN YOU LEFT"

**** Funny thing is one company in particular they had especially wonderful (EXTREME SARCASM) to say about it currently trying to track me down a takeoff 987S exaust and only incur the cost of shipping. My fingers are crossed.**** Let's See If Joe Fabiani at Fabspeed Motorsports comes through with a takeoff system for me. Thanks Joe...

[WARDHOG]

Dude, do yourself and us a favor, delete three out four post of this same subject. You only need to post it once

Edited May 10, 2006 by WARDHOG

[Kim]

This tale certainly left me with questions:

1. why would someone who can afford a brand new Porsche drive that new car 1000 miles in the hopes of getting a bargain on an exhaust from strangers with whom he had no prior experience ?

2. After the first meeting produced broken promises, lame excuses, and/or clearly poor service attitude, why would someone .... even having made the drive .... then proceed to let them work on his car?

3. either question 1 or question 2 would have stopped me .... and my car was 5 years / 30K miles old when I got it. I was, and remain, very particular who works on it.

4. Finally, with each successive broken promise / rudeness / screw up / warning from a third party .... how is it that a new promise of yet more goodies was enough to ignore everything that had happened up to that time .... and once again trust these guys with your car?

I'm flabbergasted .... but not so much by the shop's actions, as by your decisions.

[Loren]

Dude, do yourself and us a favor, delete three out four post of this same subject. You only need to post it once

Other posts have been deleted and this member has been warned.

[BoxSinit]

I just can't believe this story... Brian has been great with me. He stands by his product. Seems like the whole story isnt being told here...

[stubenhocker]

No matter how thin you fry the pancake, there are always two sides.

[Cameron75]

First off. My car was still in break in period so putting on 1000 k was no big deal. When I got there, i did wait with the belief that they would do the full system right when I got there as they gave me a specific time to arrive. When I arrived and they said I'd have to wait two days because they were swamped yes it pissed me off .But in reality I had already driven there and was planning on seeing a couple old friends so no big deal.

You talk about porsche being so much. Geeeez a techart system or cargraphic is easily 5k with headers,cats and muffler. I just can't afford to spend that. It seemed like a great deal at the time. As for there work. The welds were actually good and although the fit is to be desired. In plain site the system and welds looks goods if you brush aside the fit and hassle and deciet.

For me the problem is not a return or I could care less if the fit and finish is perfect. I don't like the product and was not given my stock system back. I called them everyday reminding them everyday being put off. I eventually got the repacement systems to try to compensate for the SEVERE resonance poor fit and loss of power throughout the powerband.

If anyone lives in LA and thinks I am lying or would like to see the system or hear it.. I am in Santa Monica you are more than welcome to swing by. I am only placing all these posts so that others can hopefully avoid the same pitfall and I am very upset that a 2500$ system was not returned to me. This really pissed me off. And when I called and they QUOTE "told me that one of there employees had helped me wrap it in bubble tape and put it in my trunk" Someone with a 987. PLEASE try to fit the two stockers in your trunk.. I dare you!! Not happening..

I just hope GHL learns there lesson. You can't do that to people because one day the penalties will exceed the rewards. So I hope a stock system was worth the bad press. Like I said if someone wants to verify my stock system is not on the car and hear the wonderfully resonant and horrible GHL jobbie I live in Santa Monica private message me and we will set something up....

[DJW]

Well, if you knew you were the first to have a GHL exhaust installed on a 987/S you shouldn't have anticipated an exhaust when you arrived; I would think they'd have to look over the car and stock exhaust to construct an aftermarket exhaust. Sorry the exhaust system didn't turn out or sound like you wanted, remember you are the first...I know my GHL exhaust on my 986S sounds fantastic. If you didn't get your stock exhaust back, I hope that can be resolved.

[jvcuenca]

First off. My car was still in break in period so putting on 1000 k was no big deal. When I got there, i did wait with the belief that they would do the full system right when I got there as they gave me a specific time to arrive. When I arrived and they said I'd have to wait two days because they were swamped yes it pissed me off .But in reality I had already driven there and was planning on seeing a couple old friends so no big deal.

You talk about porsche being so much. Geeeez a techart system or cargraphic is easily 5k with headers,cats and muffler. I just can't afford to spend that. It seemed like a great deal at the time. As for there work. The welds were actually good and although the fit is to be desired. In plain site the system and welds looks goods if you brush aside the fit and hassle and deciet.

For me the problem is not a return or I could care less if the fit and finish is perfect. I don't like the product and was not given my stock system back. I called them everyday reminding them everyday being put off. I eventually got the repacement systems to try to compensate for the SEVERE resonance poor fit and loss of power throughout the powerband.

If anyone lives in LA and thinks I am lying or would like to see the system or hear it.. I am in Santa Monica you are more than welcome to swing by. I am only placing all these posts so that others can hopefully avoid the same pitfall and I am very upset that a 2500$ system was not returned to me. This really pissed me off. And when I called and they QUOTE "told me that one of there employees had helped me wrap it in bubble tape and put it in my trunk" Someone with a 987. PLEASE try to fit the two stockers in your trunk.. I dare you!! Not happening..

I just hope GHL learns there lesson. You can't do that to people because one day the penalties will exceed the rewards. So I hope a stock system was worth the bad press. Like I said if someone wants to verify my stock system is not on the car and hear the wonderfully resonant and horrible GHL jobbie I live in Santa Monica private message me and we will set something up....

take a video and post it on you tube so we can hear...thanks

[jvcuenca]

I have owned a 996 Techart Widebody and have now, a 987S which recently went under the knife, got GIAC Tuning, H&R Springs/Swaybars, B&M Short Shifter and what this nightmare is all about... A GHL EXAUST SYSTEM for my 987S.... The original thread on my experience was made before I ever made it into there shop and what the deal entailed along with what work was in the agreement.

It is a very long and heated thread, gets nasty, is unexagerated as you will see from story start until after my return home and the exaust sound, fit and how they GHL MOTORSPORTS builds the exausts they sell Porsche owners. I am going to direct different model owners to my original thread because it involves anyone considering making a GHL purchase.. Biggest mistake of my life was buying from them, and I may have to live with it because it became a very costly mistake I may not be able to afford.

The original thread is on rennlist.com in the 987 Forum. It has the most views in the 987 Section and is very good reading. I am going to post the conclusion to get your interest. But the thread starts with the excitement of an excited new Porsche Owner just trying to get a free exaust by letting it be GHL's Guinea Pig... :soapbox:

Below is a cut and paste of the Jist of the situation at hand....... :eek:

For anyone following this thread I am a new 987S owner and was researching buying an exaust, GHL seemed to be a good alternative because there products were very cost effective. When I contacted them I was enticed into a deal in which I brought my car (still under 1000 miles on the clock) to them which added an additional 1000 miles for the before and after trip. I was hesitant until "Bryan" added in a set of equal length headers and race cats in the package. This made me jump.

A week and a bit later I was in my car driving to Mesa, AZ to where shop was.When I got there the guys seemed friendly enough, but my god, talk about bad mouthing other companies. The first hitch was when they told me they couldn't even start the car for a couple days because they had an order that was "priority". They insisted I rent a car so my car could stay in the shop telling me "MAYBE" they could squeeze it in if time permitted. I found it odd that they were so busy yet Bryan was rarely there and Jeff sat at his desk the WHOLE TIME posting on a couple different web forums. Everytime I came into the office he'd put his computer to sleep. I assume he was posting wonderful reviews on GHL and it's products. They are sooo sketchy. So there I was stuck in AZ having to pay an additional 75$ x2 for my wonderful Jeep Liberty I'd rented and another 160$ x2 for the hotel. Let's not forget the food. (I eat like a horse)

So I am on day three and it's early am and I am now in the shop. Exaust is off the car, Bryan (the guy I was dealing with 95% of the time) made it clear it wasn't good that i was in the shop. I told him there is no way I want them fiddling around with it unless I was there. So in conclusion I was there. After being under the car I was examining the headers, One of the bolts was snapped off. So either they removed it without telling me. It was that day when things started getting a little. Hmmmmmm Sketchy to say the least. Bryan informs me that he can't do the headers or cats because he doesn't have the time. The shop is just to busy. Great deal now huh. A broken promise, the main reason I came was because he promised me cats and headers..

I was at one point asking some pretty basic but technical questions about why they were using such a large diameter pipe 2.75inch pipe on the car. And asked why the heck they'd mate it to a 2.25 inch flange. Seemed like a bottleneck in the system. (Turns out they were out of the 2.25inch pipe with the right bends and didn't have the right flange)I knew that N/A cars would lose tq with this setup and make the car incredibly loud. They assured me they just needed the jig (the bracket to make the exaust for future customers) so they could shrink the pipe size and ship me another exaust with a smaller pipe if this setup did in fact lose hp or was unmanageably loud. I instisted somebody answer my questions so he ended up calling a very reputable Tuner ( I refuse to name as I do not need to get him involved) Spent a bit of time on the phone with the guy turns out we have a mutual friend whom he does business with as well as a personal friendship. It was then he told me as a gentleman would that these guys are hacks, and that between him and I, I was better off going with some of the higher end companies and spending the dollars as my situation would likely be counter productive. God, that set my alarm off full tilt. Sirens are now blazing in my head. These jacka**eses know LITERALLY NOTHING about mufflers, exausts nor do they work with engine specifics, outputs bla bla. God I know very little and these bozos couldn't answer any of my questions and had to contact another tuner HUGE in the Porsche world who luckily turned out to know one of my good friends and even he told me to watch out.

So finally my car is finished I have spend 5 days in Mesa, spent close to 1200$ on rental car, hotel, food, gas the wonderful commodity of mileage on the clock on top of that great number. Can't forget the work I took off. Considering there 986 exaust is 750$ I am in the hole big time. The only light in this tunnel was the fact that they promised me a another straight pipe with only resonators. The owner of Speed Gallery Dan had one on his 996 Powered Boxter. I heard it and thought it sounded Ferrarish. So alteast I would get that free too. They also promised me they same exaust they had fitted to my car currently, but with 2inch piping to restrict back pressure a bit to retrieve the lost tq from the current exaust. So now matter what I figured hell, I can have a fun exaust with the resonators if I goto the track and the other two I can sell on Ebay and recoup the money I spent on travels.

When I took it for a test drive the drone/ resonance was....... Well lets just say cellphone talk and having any sort of hearing after prolonged usage would be non existent. It had the decibal levels of a muscle car with straight pipe. Car DEFINITELY LOST NOTICEABLE H/P.. Not a small amount either, if it is enough to feel then it is signicant. My car wouldn't screech the tires going into second gear anymore. Bottom end TQ was most effected although High RPM also took a healthy dose of loss.

I thought it was insane that a muffler cannister was pulled off a shelf to fit under my car. It wasn't hand made, it wasn't designed with any sort of specifiecations in mind. Simply a universal fit cannister. It was placed under the car, pipes were welded on boom bam bing. Done. Very Joe Garage style.

So now I am basically at the end of their work day and have this exaust that sounds asbsolutely horrible, resonates louder than an City Bus or an F1 Tomcat but also have a broken bolt on my header (Which leads me to wonder if they actually took off my header to jig it so they could make something even when my car was not there. ???? This I cannot prove.

Upon leaving I SPECIFICALLY asked them to put my stock exaust in a box and even carried it to the front of the shop to make sure it was packed away for shipping. I was warned by a couple friends and have had several experiences with "losing" stock components to shops in which they mysteriously disappear. They refused to put it in the box saying they had to close soon and didn't have a sizeable enough box anyhow for shipping. So finally I was almost pushed out of the store so they could lock up. I swear I considered tying it to the roof. ;-) (Not really) They promised to ship it the very next day along with a two other systems two days following.

This Is What I Was Promised

1) The original system with 2inch piping to match factory pipe size

2) Resonators with 2inch piping.

3) Of course my factory exaust and brackets (Which I may have to pay 2300$ for at the dealer now because these **** exasust are not staying on my car.

4) Originally promised Two german racing cats

5) Orginally promised equal length headers

This Is What I Left With

1) A 2.75 Inch Monster Pipe With An Exaust That Sounds Like Cherry Bombs On Steroids.

2) I left With A Empty Centre Console That Was Originally filled with a handfull of quarters

3) I left Without My Bluetooth Headset That Was Also In my Centre Console

The Only Positive Notes On This Whole Ordeal

1) The welder is pretty good, he did good welds on the system

2) I got three exausts as promised - minus my stock exaust.

3) I have tried all three exausts, all are rediculousy loud so I have been driving my Mini Cooper S 95% of the time, thus saving mileage of the Porsche... If you call that a positive. Never thought i would be ashamed to drive a Porsche! hahaha

4) I had great Mexican Food

*** Beverly Hills Porsche performs my service and Erik Patino Is My Service Advisor For Anyone Who Cares To Doubt My Identity*** When I brought it into Beverly Hills Porsche for a transmission vibration the techs (I am friendly with them) laughed at the exaust telling me it sound like a rice burner with cherry bombs. They also told me the severe vibration I was having in deceleration was the poor fitment of the exaust. The pipe was pressed firmly against the frame of the car. So every time I decelerate it feels as though my tranny has very bad gears due to the exastive resonance...Fun stuff huh? (I haven't even gotten to the good part)

They will not return my stock exaust. This is the same exaust they asked if I was going to keep and mentioned it would be a good idea to cut it open to see what is inside... I am a fool for not Insisting on stuffing the exaust into my car in the passenger seat but the pipes were so long, interior leather perfect. You guys feeling me? Since the car trunk was full I really didn't have any options.

So now more than 6 weeks later and three very ****ty sounding exausts later with HP robbing properties I am left with not much choice but to find a used stock exaust system.... Who knows maybe GHL will sell me one! Pricks....

In conclusion, any who reads this please be warned when considering purchasing anything from GHL. They are hacks at best and are such trash mouths talking all kinds of crap about everyone.. God they should step back and look at themselves. They are unhappy and definitely in the wrong business. Now I have to see if they are a member of the Better Business Bureau to lodge a formal complaint. Then try to see if I have enough on them with phone records, personal records, photos of my car in there shop to bring a small claims judgement against them. So I guess educating people on all of the forums I know of will be my life for two days. I have taken 2 days off from work just to take care of this. I am furious I was duped, and even more angry I was ripped off. In hindsite I should never have left the exaust in the first place even if they had tried to force to out of the shop. I wouldn't suggest bringing a civic in for a tip change to a couple junkyard exaust manufacturers like Jeff and Bryan of GHL MOTORSPORTS : TWO THUMBS DOWN FOR SERVICE, SOUND, FITMENT and B- FOR WELDS! If my final grade for the exausts I am left with.

Last conversation with Jeff and Bryan left me being incredibly nice and asking them to reimburse me for the Stock exaust or finding me a used one or I would bring them to small claims court. I was told word for word that I was a "F*CKING LIAR, ROBERT (I believe an employee) WRAPPED IT IN PLASTIC AND HELPED YOU LOAD IT IN YOUR TRUNK WHEN YOU LEFT"

**** Funny thing is one company in particular they had especially wonderful (EXTREME SARCASM) to say about it currently trying to track me down a takeoff 987S exaust and only incur the cost of shipping. My fingers are crossed.**** Let's See If Joe Fabiani at Fabspeed Motorsports comes through with a takeoff system for me. Thanks Joe...

never mind..that was 3 years ago..just didn't pay attention to the date...I was just searching for headers coz I am replacing mine this weekend..