Need Some Advice on Cab Top Installer Screw Up!

[raleighcab]

So my 996 Cab needed a new cloth top and I found a great deal on one. I did my due diligence and found the best installer in my area...one recommended by all the Porsche experts in the area. They even do the top installations for some of the Porsche Dealerships in the locally.

To make a long story short they have my car for two days and I am ready to pick it up at 5pm the second day and I get a call that the car won't be ready until the next day. So when I call the morning of the 3rd day they put me on hold then a guy gets on the phone and tells me there is a problem. He says that when the installer went to close the top the top stopped right before latching. He said this often happens because the new top is tight. The installer then pulled the top down and broke something he called a "sensor" that tells the microswitch to latch the top. This plastic "sensor" is apparently near the latch and when the top gets close to the windshield it activated and it tells the microswitch to latch the top. I am still trying to picture this in my head. I had never really ever looked at that part of the top because it had always worked perfectly.

Anyway...so this guy called Porsche and of course they don't sell that little piece they only sell the whole latching mechanism to the tune of $625.00 dollars! Nice! So this guy hints around asking if I ever had a problem like this before with the top. Like maybe it was broken already! Anyway...I insist that the top has always worked perfectly and I tell him I will make some inquiries to see if we can find that piece or a used mechanism from somewhere that might be much less expensive while he does the same.

So we have had no luck so far in finding the part. One place had the whole latching mechanism but the specific piece we need was broken.

So...my question here is. Shouldn't the installer be totally responsible for this damage and pay the full amount to fix the damage? Whatever it may be? Because I am getting the feeling this guy is going to try to get out of this and make me pay.

Any help or advice here is greatly appreciated!

John

[my996]

I am an attorney in Michigan. I had the same problem with a top that a shop put a hole in and then tried to insinuate that the hole was already there. When I did not accept that stupid line of reasoning, they said their insurance would pay for it. Then their insurance said that they would only cover the depreciated amount of the top. I did not care, I was not in contract with the insurance company - the repair shop was. Long and short of it is that I finally called an attorney friend of mine who threatened a law suit on my behalf (it sounds better coming from someone other than you when a law suit is mentioned). Needless to say, the shop covered the full expense but only after some hassle.

What I suggest for you is that you let them know that the part was in absolute working condition when you dropped it off to them. It is their job to prove otherwise (good luck to them). Second, if they refuse, kindly suggest that you will have to seek legal remedy if needed. Get an estimate for the work from another place to make a record of the damage. I think that will solve the problem - they do not want to ***** of influential customers who have other friends who might need work done too.

[porschenut]

I am an attorney in Michigan. I had the same problem with a top that a shop put a hole in and then tried to insinuate that the hole was already there. When I did not accept that stupid line of reasoning, they said their insurance would pay for it. Then their insurance said that they would only cover the depreciated amount of the top. I did not care, I was not in contract with the insurance company - the repair shop was. Long and short of it is that I finally called an attorney friend of mine who threatened a law suit on my behalf (it sounds better coming from someone other than you when a law suit is mentioned). Needless to say, the shop covered the full expense but only after some hassle.

What I suggest for you is that you let them know that the part was in absolute working condition when you dropped it off to them. It is their job to prove otherwise (good luck to them). Second, if they refuse, kindly suggest that you will have to seek legal remedy if needed. Get an estimate for the work from another place to make a record of the damage. I think that will solve the problem - they do not want to ***** of influential customers who have other friends who might need work done too.

Yes, stress the fact that everything was fine when you dropped it off, no ifs, buts or maybe. they screwed up and need to fully pay for it.

[wross996TT]

I would be so pissed...and I would not stand for that! They should get it fixed (like new) IMO.

[Guest]

So my 996 Cab needed a new cloth top and I found a great deal on one. I did my due diligence and found the best installer in my area...one recommended by all the Porsche experts in the area. They even do the top installations for some of the Porsche Dealerships in the locally.

To make a long story short they have my car for two days and I am ready to pick it up at 5pm the second day and I get a call that the car won't be ready until the next day. So when I call the morning of the 3rd day they put me on hold then a guy gets on the phone and tells me there is a problem. He says that when the installer went to close the top the top stopped right before latching. He said this often happens because the new top is tight. The installer then pulled the top down and broke something he called a "sensor" that tells the microswitch to latch the top. This plastic "sensor" is apparently near the latch and when the top gets close to the windshield it activated and it tells the microswitch to latch the top. I am still trying to picture this in my head. I had never really ever looked at that part of the top because it had always worked perfectly.

Anyway...so this guy called Porsche and of course they don't sell that little piece they only sell the whole latching mechanism to the tune of $625.00 dollars! Nice! So this guy hints around asking if I ever had a problem like this before with the top. Like maybe it was broken already! Anyway...I insist that the top has always worked perfectly and I tell him I will make some inquiries to see if we can find that piece or a used mechanism from somewhere that might be much less expensive while he does the same.

So we have had no luck so far in finding the part. One place had the whole latching mechanism but the specific piece we need was broken.

So...my question here is. Shouldn't the installer be totally responsible for this damage and pay the full amount to fix the damage? Whatever it may be? Because I am getting the feeling this guy is going to try to get out of this and make me pay.

Any help or advice here is greatly appreciated!

John

Just curious John, was your top closed when you delivered it to the shop? If so, it was in fact ok when you left it.

[claudiu]

Before threatening with legal action, I would suggest that you speak to the garage manager, if necessary his line manager, the line manager's line manager and so forth till one of them gives you satisfaction. Legal action should be the last resort...It is obvious to me that the garage and not you should pay for the fault incurred during installation. Good luck!

[my996]

I agree, legal action should be a last resort. I should have made that more clear in my first post. Try to work it out with the shop first but just keep in mind that they have an obligation to fix the damage if they caused it.

[raleighcab]

Thanks for all the replies. I have not even hinted at legal action at all and I am actually being very nice about this in my view. But I don't want them to think my niceness is weakness so I may have to turn into a hard *** this coming week. They still have my car and they were supposed to call me Friday and give me an update but I haven't heard from them. I am still trying to find a used part because I do feel that for such a small part it would suck for them to have to have to pay for the whole assembly. However if it comes down to that then they will have to deal with it.

They told me that the top can now be manually latched (my automatic top is now a manual!) so I am thinking I might offer to let them search for a part...for 30 days or so and then when they get it replace it. Of course I will get this agreement in writing. It's still such a pain in the ***...but what can you do?

This is when you wish you owned a Camry and replacement parts were a dime a dozen!

[Kim]

They told me that the top can now be manually latched (my automatic top is now a manual!) so I am thinking I might offer to let them search for a part...for 30 days or so and then when they get it replace it. Of course I will get this agreement in writing. It's still such a pain in the ***...but what can you do?

My experience in similar situations has been that, the longer I wait for a solution, the less urgent it becomes for the shop, and the less perceived leverage I have in getting it satisfactorily resolved.

I would set them up with Sunset Porsche to get the part .... that alone is going the extra mile on your part. Shipped to them, it will still cost less than they can buy it from the local Porsche dealer. You have no shared responsibility here, and owe them nothing.

My personal take is that I would inform them I want it fixed .... right now.

Kim

2000 Cab

[Orient Express]

Here is what I do with service groups that perform below my expectation, or ones that I have a dispute about broken parts etc. with.

I simply pay them their invoice amount minus the cost of the broken part plus 1 hour labor. However if you have already paid them before resolving this issue, shame on you, as you just lost that leverage! :eek:

Now onto a possible solution. If I understand your post correctly, the broken part in question is the header latch receiver on the center of the windshield header. This is the part includes the map and courtesy lights.

In the center of this assembly is a little opening with a spring mounted flap on it. Behind the flap is a micro-switch that is activated by the flap being pushed up by the roof latch. There are several of these micro-switches on the top mechanism that tell the controller that various events have or have not happened during the opening and closing cycles. The little flap can get slightly bent so that the micro-switch does not fully engage. It can be quite literally 1/100" out and the micro-switch will not close. A fix to this is to place a small round self adhesive furniture/knick-nack felt foot on the center of the flap. This will give the flap the extra depth it needs to actuate the micro-switch.

I had a problem with the switch on my Cabriolets top, and this is how I rectified it.

However if the micro-switch is broken, then all bets are off. You can either repair/repair the micro-switch, or get a new latch receiver assembly. You can test the switch by pressing on it with your finger. If you hear it click, then it is OK, it just the flap that is bent out of tolerance.

Think of it on the bright side, at least it did not happen on a Friday night 300 miles from the nearest Porsche dealership whose service department was closed on the weekend anyway! (ask me how I know....)

[raleighcab]

Here is what I do with service groups that perform below my expectation, or ones that I have a dispute about broken parts etc. with.

I simply pay them their invoice amount minus the cost of the broken part plus 1 hour labor. However if you have already paid them before resolving this issue, shame on you, as you just lost that leverage! eek.gif

Now onto a possible solution. If I understand your post correctly, the broken part in question is the header latch receiver on the center of the windshield header. This is the part includes the map and courtesy lights.

In the center of this assembly is a little opening with a spring mounted flap on it. Behind the flap is a micro-switch that is activated by the flap being pushed up by the roof latch. There are several of these micro-switches on the top mechanism that tell the controller that various events have or have not happened during the opening and closing cycles. The little flap can get slightly bent so that the micro-switch does not fully engage. It can be quite literally 1/100" out and the micro-switch will not close. A fix to this is to place a small round self adhesive furniture/knick-nack felt foot on the center of the flap. This will give the flap the extra depth it needs to actuate the micro-switch.

I had a problem with the switch on my Cabriolets top, and this is how I rectified it.

IPB Image

However if the micro-switch is broken, then all bets are off. You can either repair/repair the micro-switch, or get a new latch receiver assembly. You can test the switch by pressing on it with your finger. If you hear it click, then it is OK, it just the flap that is bent out of tolerance.

Think of it on the bright side, at least it did not happen on a Friday night 300 miles from the nearest Porsche dealership whose service department was closed on the weekend anyway! (ask me how I know....)

No...I definitely haven't paid them yet and your idea is a good one and I might go that route. I actually found a yard out in CA that has the whole assembly and they think it is in good shape and I plan to have the shop call them about getting it. But from my understanding from talking to the shop whatever broke is actually on the top side of the latch. I don't think it is the part you have a picture of. Of couse I could be totally wrong...but from the way they explained it to me that is what I concluded. Is there a microswitch trigger on the top side of the latch?

[djantlive]

you found la dismantler? be aware of that place. they often tell you they have something when they don't. also, their parts are often damaged badly -- taken from salvaged cars.

[raleighcab]

NO...LA Dismantlers were totally not helpful. I am sure they have the part I am looking for but getting them to look for it is useless. I found a company called SilverStar Recycling that specializes in Mercedes and Porsche Parts. They seem to be much more pleasant and helpful to deal with. :D

[Orient Express]

The micro-switch for the top center latch is in the windshield header assembly. This is the part in the photo. Before you go on a wild goose chase, check the action of the flap as I described. The assembly in the center of the soft top is the latch and the latch motor, no Micro switch there. However the latch motor may have gotten out of synchronization as well. There are instructions in the owners manual on setting it back to the correct state.

Have you been over to see the problem for yourself and checked the state of the latch assembly? If not, I would suggest a visit to check it out first hand. Bring a felt bumper foot and stick it on the flap to see if that fixes the issue.

BTW, Silver Star comes very highly recommended. We are having a PCA Concours event there later this year.

[eastriver]

my exp. is, cert. mail from lawyer is the only way to let ppl listen to you.

if you kinf enough, wait 3 days,

but, then again, that lawyer letter header won't come cheap. :)

ask how i knew......