Chip Mod for 2003 Boxster S

[DANNOV]

I have been considering doing the Powerchip modification to my 2003 Boxster S. Powerchip claims an increase in HP from 258 to 281 HP and an increase in torque from 229 to 247 lb.ft. Cost is $990.

Ordinarily, I would question how this is possible from a mere modification of the computer chip. And, I know that many of us (including me) have doubts about this kind of modification producing the promised numbers. But it is interesting that the new 987 S has been boosted to 280 HP in some mysterious fashion, i.e. displacement has not changed, compression ratio is the same. I suspect that Porsche improved the breathing or changed the cam, but does that account for 22 more HP? It makes me wonder if Porsche didn't get a fair amount of that additional HP from some computer tweaking itself.

I did an extensive internet search, not just on Google but also directly on Porsche forums like this one. All I found were responses from people expressing doubts, but I found no one did an actual dyno check and concluded the chip was no good. I did find some postings from people who installed a combination of things (new exhaust+air intakes+chip) who were disappointed with the results but these were cases where the interaction of unrelated pieces might have been responsible. I did not find any postings were someone installed the chip by itself and was dissatisfied.

I installed a chip on my 1985 911 many years ago, and there is a noticeable improvement in performance., but I can't put a HP number on the improvement. I notice in this month's issue of Excellence there is a story about someone doing a chip mod on an old 968 and getting a dyno verfied increase in rear wheel HP from 190.8 to 202.3, or 11.5 HP (+6%). That chip cost a lot less than the Powerchip and it was a cheap way to get more horses. But, the point is that it did add HP.

I just have a hunch that there is more HP to be gained in the 2003 Boxster S that can be gotten by a chip mod; and as I mentioned earlier, I suspect the Porsche got some of that 22 HP increase in the 987 in that fashion. If I can pickup 10 HP more, that is $99 per horse. I suspect that that is about what each additional horse would cost me if I went to a new exhaust system.

Any opinions?

[nick49]

I would be really surprised if you got anywhere near the advertised gain in HP or Torque or really any at all. Some chips will net you an HP gain by spinning the motor faster as time is a critical factor in HP, not so in torque. Anyone who understands motors knows that usually HP gains come at the expense of loss of torque. Things that increase HP like larger valves, ports, throttle bodies, short head pipes, long duration cams, aggressive advance curves have the opposite effect on torque.

Ask the mfg of the chip to refund your purchase price plus the cost of dyno time if you can't get 80% of his claimed power and torque gains and I'll bet he won't do it. Chips work on turbocharged cars because they increase boost, often to dangerous levels that the motor was not manufactured to deal with. All the chip does on a naturally aspirated motor is give you a more aggressive and possibly earlier ignition advance and a higher ceiling on your rev limit. Most people that say they can feel an increase in power are too embarassed to state otherwise. I have bolted on loud pipes that actually reduce power and the customer is happy because he associates increased noise with power/speed.

This is my opinion only and it comes from building hundreds of motorcycle high performance engines, racing at the Bonneville Salt Flats, roadracing motorcycles for 8 years using my own motors, and currently building 3 high performance Harley motors, including a Buell for a friend who happens to be a Porsche mechanic at the local dealer.

[DANNOV]

Nick49

I hear what you say, but that chip test that I mentioned in Excellence magazine (May 2006) got a dyno verfied 6% increase in HP and a 6% increase in torque on a 968. Also, the gain in HP and torque was constant across the whole RPM range from about 2000 RPM to redline. I suggest that anyone interested in a chip mod should check out this article. There is a nice dyno graph that shows it all.

I think we are talking about different things. You are relating your experience with highly modified racing engines that are already near the HP limit, and perhaps in that situation tweaking the computer chip offers little benefit.

I am talking about tweaking the chip in a street car (as in the 968 example related above). What is the difference? The theory is that for street use the mfg. deliberately tweaks the OEM chip settings so that the car can run on lower grade fuel, i.e. not every place has 93 octane available. The chip may also be tweaked to get better gas mileage to meet gov't mandates on fuel savings.

The computer chip can thus be reflashed or replaced, enabling the car to run more efficiently on 93 octane fuel at the expense of lower gas mileage, and the flexibility to run on lower octane fuels. That is the theory, and given the example of the 968 mentioned above, there may be some truth to it.

I should also add that I own another car, a 2005 Corvette C6. This car has 400HP and 400 ft lbs of torque. It is quite fast and for my purposes it doesn't need more power. Anyway, it is my wife's car. But I folllow the various owner forums on the Corvette C6 and there are numerous examples where tuners are able to tweak the C6 computer and get a dyno verified 10% increase in HP and torque across the entire rev range. In a lot of cases owners have dyno'ed their C6's before and after the computer tuning and verified the increases. It seems like a "cottage industry" has sprung up to do just this kind of computer tuning on the Corvettes. I would not be surprised if there is something to be gained from tweaking my 2003 Boxster S, I would be delighted to get another 10 HP, even if it costs me $99 per horse.

[nick49]

It sounds like you're sold on the chip. I would be interested in seeing before and after dyno charts, although Dynojet runs aren't nearly as accurate or repeteable as eddy current dyno results. Better yet a few drag strip timing slips. I've found dyno charts great for bragging rights in the pub and something tangable for the money spent to obtain it.

Being in the business way too long, make me a skeptic, the illusive search for horsepower is almost like religion. Different people believe differently. Is it important what works? I don't think so, as long as the customer is satisfyed and feels he has received something for his money. By no means am I saying you fit this catagory, but I see an awfully lot of people that spend thousands of dollars on modifications that do little or nothing. Seems like the fact that they HAVE it is more important than what it really does. Too many products today are built on preceived illusions in my opinion.

Nothing too serious here, it's all about fun...right?

[DANNOV]

It sounds like you're sold on the chip. I would be interested in seeing before and after dyno charts, although Dynojet runs aren't nearly as accurate or repeteable as eddy current dyno results. Better yet a few drag strip timing slips. I've found dyno charts great for bragging rights in the pub and something tangable for the money spent to obtain it.

Being in the business way too long, make me a skeptic, the illusive search for horsepower is almost like religion. Different people believe differently. Is it important what works? I don't think so, as long as the customer is satisfyed and feels he has received something for his money. By no means am I saying you fit this catagory, but I see an awfully lot of people that spend thousands of dollars on modifications that do little or nothing. Seems like the fact that they HAVE it is more important than what it really does. Too many products today are built on preceived illusions in my opinion.

Nothing too serious here, it's all about fun...right?

No, I am not sold on the idea that a chip mod is the best way to get HP. If I was, I would not have done the research and would not have made the original posting, I just would have bought it! I am interested in what others think because I am "on the fence". I was frankly surprised by the results I quoted from the recent Excellence article on the 968. I wish you would read that article and pick it apart if possibe, you are much more of an expert on this stuff than I am. Getting more HP out of any Porsche is very expensive whether you go the chip route or by more traditional means, i.e. intake and exhaust mods. I just want to verify that a chip mod is a viable option.

As I mentioned, C6 Corvette owners are getting more HP from just a computer reprogram. It is not unreasonable to think that there is some more HP "under the table" that the OEM's are holding back for whatever reason. Incidently, I misspoke when I quoted a 10% gain, in HP and torque on the C6 from computer mods alone. I went back to check some of the postings on the C6 forum and the verified dyno gain in HP and torque is more like 6% of RWHP, which is coincidently in agreement with the 968 experiment in Excellence.

If I can get 10 more HP from a chip mod, the cost is $99 per horse. Powerchip is advertising 23 more HP, so I just discount their claim by 50% just to be careful. After all the 968 got 10 more HP in a verified dyno test. The cost of that gain per horsepower is on a par with the cost of any Boxster exhaust mod that gains more HP.

I appreciate your opinions but I am looking for someone that has done a real before and after dyno test, similar to the data available on the Corvette sites. Corvette guys are really very paranoid about being inferior (I think they may have small *****), and in many cases they are extremely careful about doing before and after dyno tests. I also think they like to claim that their C6 is more powerful than other C6's and they like to flash the dyno results as proof. There is a lot of this before and after dyno data available on the C6 from independant sources, but there is nothing on the Boxster or the 996 that I could find.

Has anyone out there done a before and after dyno test on a Boxster with a chip mod?

[nick49]

I thought you may be interested...I was, so I'll relay a couple of more opinions from "Experts (?)."

Anyway before work this morning I stopped by an automotive machine shop that I have used for years to do cylinder boring and valve seat refinishing. They do very good machining and do exactly as requested as far as specs relayed to them. The guys that run it are the "***** on (insert brand here)", USA V8 Gear Head Roundy Round kind of guys, that don't like foreign cars or for that matter anything foreign. I told them that I heard of a chip that will net a 10% power gain and increase torque as well and it was offered for $1000. The machinist guy wholly agreed that it was most likely totally accurate, and chips that he has experience with will give 10% or more gains and a lot of his friends have used them with terrific success. He also stated that with todays cars and all the computer controlled ignition and injection that this is the way to get more power of of these vehicles. I have disagreed with him before on various mechanical issues. His daily driver is a '57 Ford One Ton PU 4x4 and he has never been on the internet or used a computer. Not that it makes his opinion any less valid, but it could, LOL.

The second opinion is from a tech at a Porsche dealership, that is also a friend of mine. His opinions pretty much mirrored my own thinking. He stated that at the previous dealership he worked at, he installed several chips on customers cars and had comparison dyno runs done either on their own or at the customers request. He said he found little or no difference on naturally aspirated cars and varying degrees of increases on turboed cars. He also has done quite a bit of race car building, prep, and racing.

I'm certain that the more people you ask, the more confused you may become. Just like religion...

[DANNOV]

I thought you may be interested...I was, so I'll relay a couple of more opinions from "Experts (?)."

Anyway before work this morning I stopped by an automotive machine shop that I have used for years to do cylinder boring and valve seat refinishing. They do very good machining and do exactly as requested as far as specs relayed to them. The guys that run it are the "***** on (insert brand here)", USA V8 Gear Head Roundy Round kind of guys, that don't like foreign cars or for that matter anything foreign. I told them that I heard of a chip that will net a 10% power gain and increase torque as well and it was offered for $1000. The machinist guy wholly agreed that it was most likely totally accurate, and chips that he has experience with will give 10% or more gains and a lot of his friends have used them with terrific success. He also stated that with todays cars and all the computer controlled ignition and injection that this is the way to get more power of of these vehicles. I have disagreed with him before on various mechanical issues. His daily driver is a '57 Ford One Ton PU 4x4 and he has never been on the internet or used a computer. Not that it makes his opinion any less valid, but it could, LOL.

The second opinion is from a tech at a Porsche dealership, that is also a friend of mine. His opinions pretty much mirrored my own thinking. He stated that at the previous dealership he worked at, he installed several chips on customers cars and had comparison dyno runs done either on their own or at the customers request. He said he found little or no difference on naturally aspirated cars and varying degrees of increases on turboed cars. He also has done quite a bit of race car building, prep, and racing.

I'm certain that the more people you ask, the more confused you may become. Just like religion...

I sure would like to see those comparison dyno runs. The Corvette people do this stuff all the time and there is independant dyno data and graphs available on the internet for chips and just about any other mod. I don't understand why Porsche owners don't show an equal amount of interest in determining the effectiveness of modifications.

I should note that you have yet to refute or comment on the results of the chip test article done on the Porsche 968 in the May issue of Excellence magazine. Those test results, which I might add, are verified by a before and after dyno test. The owner had no vested interest in the result and bought an off the shelf chip for only $150. What is your opinion of those results? Please read the article. If you like, I would be happy to scan the article and email it to you, I don't think I can post the article here because of copyright concerns.

[DANNOV]

Nick49

I just emailed you the Excellence article regarding the results of the chip mod on the Porsche 968. We have a lot of people who have viewed this thread, so there appears to be some interest. Post your comments here rather than in an email to me.

[nick49]

Read the article, thanks. It sounds like the guy studied this a bit before making his selection and wnt about it the right way to test the results. Hopefully he may do some timed runs with and without and we can the differences there. He seemed pleased overall with the results obtained and that's without a doubt the most important thing.

I thought the results were pretty impressive on the dyno and although the owner didn't feel any real power increase the improvement in throttle response and driveability was certainly worth the money and effort spent. Something to realize is that with and older model car with dated electronics greater gains may behad using todays technology, also different cars, models, equipment packages, etc will respond differently to ECU changes.

If I chipped a car I would want a power increase that I could definately feel. On Harley Evos I can achieve a 50% increase in RWHP, from 47 to 70 for under $1500. With a Boxster or 996 to get a gain you could feel I think you would need to change the compression ratio, cams, valve size, intake runners possibly, throttle body, and then the electronics to match the work that has been done. I have read for years that there is NO power to be had from changing exhaust headers with the stock motor. Porsche does an amazing job with the stock heads and exhaust system. Also Porsche with variable cam timing an variable intake plenum length or manifold volume it is hard to improve upon for street use as it maximizes torque and power according to demand. Older cars didn't have this.

Regards, Nick

[DANNOV]

I thought the results were pretty impressive on the dyno and although the owner didn't feel any real power increase the improvement in throttle response and driveability was certainly worth the money and effort spent. Something to realize is that with and older model car with dated electronics greater gains may behad using todays technology, also different cars, models, equipment packages, etc will respond differently to ECU changes.

If I chipped a car I would want a power increase that I could definately feel. On Harley Evos I can achieve a 50% increase in RWHP, from 47 to 70 for under $1500.

A chip mod apparently works on a 968, but how well will it work on a 986? That is the real question. At least I got you to believe that there is something to be gained with a chip mod. Perhaps all the 968 owners should be aware of a cheap way to get an extra 6% HP and torque for only $150.

[runawayjim1977]

Entertaining as it was, all this nick and dan banter got us nowhere. I have also been interested in the Powerchip for my 2001 2.7. I hope someone who has actually had it installed can give a report...the testimonials on the powerchipgroup.com website are fantastic for my vehicle, but I guess they could post all the fabricated testimonials their wives could type up...

In the meantime, I remain a skeptic, and I will hold on to my $900 until I have a better feeling on it.

[mackguyver]

All, to chime in here, chips do magical things to older and less performance oriented cars. My dad's got one in his '87 911 and it makes a noticeable difference. I had one in a VW Jetta back in college and it was amazing, and when I bought my BMW 525i last year, I was game to get one for it, to speed up the car. I went to Dinan's website as they are the premier BMW tuner, and they said that BMW has extracted about all they can from the engine and they don't even offer a chip. My research into chips for 2000+ Porsches seems to lead me that same conclusion. Just like strut tower braces & such, it seems that Porsche has engineered the cars so well that getting HP gains aren't easy.

From what I can tell (I just bought a '03 Boxster), it seems like your best bets for more power are to add an EVO intake & upgrade the exhaust. Beyond that, I think you'd need to add a turbo to get much more out of the engine or better yet, jam a 911 engine in there like a few on here have done.

[pdavis1]

Guys, I have to admit I would love to have 280 HP+ from a chip as advertised for my 2000 Boxster S yet I am very skeptical too. There is one thing that always bothers me about Porsche. Why do Boxsters and now the Cayman put out less hp per liter than 911's of 7-10 years ago? I have to believe they keep the less expensive models tuned down to make sure they do not outrun their more expensive brothers. Based on that it makes me believe that there is more hp lurking in that motor that Porsche is afraid to release. Why does the BMW M3 make something like 330 hp from it's 3.2 liter motor?

[DANNOV]

Guys, I have to admit I would love to have 280 HP+ from a chip as advertised for my 2000 Boxster S yet I am very skeptical too. There is one thing that always bothers me about Porsche. Why do Boxsters and now the Cayman put out less hp per liter than 911's of 7-10 years ago? I have to believe they keep the less expensive models tuned down to make sure they do not outrun their more expensive brothers. Based on that it makes me believe that there is more hp lurking in that motor that Porsche is afraid to release. Why does the BMW M3 make something like 330 hp from it's 3.2 liter motor?

That is the reason I started the thread. Porsche seems to get a bit more HP out of its cars with each successive model year with some kind of minor changes that are less than fully explained. I can see increases resulting from an increase in engine displacement, but how did they get the Boxster S from 252 HP in 2000 to 280 HP in 2005 wihle still keeping the engine at 3.2 litres? I have a suspicion that the wonderful world of electronics may provide an answer. I have debated about spending the $1K for a chip just to see if it makes a difference. Unfortunately, I have to first pop for a set of new Michelin PS2 tires. The chip is on my list of things to do in 2007. I will keep you informed.

I mentioned in one of my posts that C6 Corvette owners are going this route and getting some excellant results. A cottage industry of "tuners" has arisen who reprogram the GM chip for more HP. The Corvette people I know who have done this are quite happy with the result. They claim that they can instantly see the difference in their drag strip times..

[mee]

...but how did they get the Boxster S from 252 HP in 2000 to 280 HP in 2005 wihle still keeping the engine at 3.2 litres? I have a suspicion that the wonderful world of electronics may provide an answer.

Your suspicion is likely wrong ;)

In '03, Porsche changed to an improved version of the VarioCam to take the 3.2L from 250 to 258 HP. The intake airbox is also a restrictive design. In 2004 with the SE, Porsche added 6 HP from the improved intake to take the 3.2L to 264 HP. Another well-known bottleneck is the exhaust which is basically sized for the 2.5L. In 2005, Porsche added another 16 HP primarily due to the exhaust. I doubt Porsche's electronic tuning did anything along the way other than let the engine take advantage of the other improvements.

Based on my emails/conversations with PowerChip, they are a joke.

[DANNOV]

Based on my emails/conversations with PowerChip, they are a joke.

I am not thinking about PowerChip. The software mod I am considering is the REVO by Technik. Price is $899 and they indicate 274 HP on a Boxster S after installation. But the interesting thing is that they have a test drive feature that allows you to get the performance gains for a 5 hour period, then it reverts back to the stock programing. If you like it, you pay the price and get it setup permanently, if you don't like it, they just uninstall it and you go home. It is a no obligation trial.

REVO also has something called serial port programming which enables you to switch between stock settings or performance settings. Here in the Chicago area the software is sold by Midwest Eurosport. The guys at Midwest Eurosport are the top Porsche experts in this area, great reputation, all they do are Porsches, and they know these cars. If they say it works I have to lean toward being a believer, because I just don't think Midwest Euro will knowingly sell you junk.

If I take the jump it will with the REVO chip mod, not PowerChip, and that decision is made primarily because Midwest Euro is standing behind the modification.

[mee]

Please post your results. I am currently in the process of evaluating Revo myself and am very familiar with their offering. Just for fun, here is PowerChip's dyno. Doesn't look like any Boxster dyno I've ever seen. Can you say Excel?

[986Jim]

Based on that it makes me believe that there is more hp lurking in that motor that Porsche is afraid to release. Why does the BMW M3 make something like 330 hp from it's 3.2 liter motor?

The M3 makes that power partly because they have Individual throttle bodies (ITB's) so each cylinder across the straight 6 gets one runner and one throttle plate for each cylinder. This is a very efficient design, but costly. You can more closely tune each cylinder to make sure your getting as much air, velocity and power from each cylinder you can.

If you look at the center you can see connectors for each throttle body.

I have seen chips make gains on cars where you thought gains would not be possible, the Acura Type-R for example. 195hp from 1.8L and the chip made 8whp on the dyno with 4ft/lbs of torque at peak. Pretty good really from an engine strung out that much.

I would like to see a before and after dyno of a car that had a chip installed. Even with different readings from the dyno and temperatures outside etc. if you could still see a noticable repeatable difference you can tell that it did indeed at least do "something".

[Topless]

Ah yes, the old chip debate.

We know what they do... Control ignition timing, air/fuel ratios, rev limits, engine temp, turbo boost, and even shift timing on advanced transmissions. Most Fords, Chevys, Hondas, Lexus etc. have chips that are "mapped" for reliability, fuel economy, and performance in that order. "Remap" one of these cars with a max performance profile and you will get stellar performance improvements at a cost of reliability and fuel economy. It is not unusual to see a lowly Honda Civic get a 30% HP increase with the addition of a cold air intake, tuned exahust, and max performance chip. It is now only good for 50k mi. instead of 250k and only gets 20mpg instead of 35 but it goes like snot. Much greater increases are routinely found on turbo diesel engines with the same type of performance mods.

Porsche is a little different. Those little engineers in Stuttgart already mapped these cars for performance 1st. Which is why they are so much fun to drive... which is why most of us own them. They already go like snot right out of the box. Sure you could probably eek out another 10hp with a more agressive timing, and higher rev limit but do you really want to?? 80-100 hp/liter is really pretty good performance.

If I really wanted to get the most out of my original Boxter motor I would use proven techniques... Get cold air to flow freely into the motor, add a performance tuned exhaust that takes advantage of my improved intake airflow, run it on aviation fuel and have my chip "performance mapped" while on a dyno where you could really dial in the timing and air/fuel ratios. This would surely result in performance gains that you could see and feel. It would also cost way north of $1000.

Another way to go is to leave the car alone and take that $1000 and put it towards a Bondurant School of Driving course. I suspect 8/10 Porsche owners would see a greater improvement in lap times and general driving satisfaction by improving our skills than by hot rodding our cars with the same money, myself included. Probably a lot fewer spins and crashes too.

Just one mans opinion. I look forward to your comments.

Edited July 7, 2006 by Topless