Reliability of 996 Engines

[alexcwt]

I agree with hemeoncdoc wholeheartedly. There is NO reason to forgive mediocrety in engine design when a variety of makes ( including American cars I may add) are able to produce high powered , sophisticated engines that easily survive 200K miles without leaks or breakdowns. I also do not believe that only Porsche drivers use their cars the way they are designed. It is also clear that if you are using your car on the track you may shorted then time that engine failures occur but certainly not the same problem over and over again for the last 10 years.

I for instance would definately be looking at a Maserati or a Baby Aston Martin going forward. Or maybe the new Nissan/Infinity supercar...

Also, the reluctance for Porsche to make parts available for gearbox repair etc is rather anti-customer I would say.

I love my C2 but getting the habit of looking under the car every day to check for the RMS or other leaks syndrome puts a damper on my enthousiasm for sure.

Maybe Porsche should outsource their engines rather than their other components. Audi most likely would be doing a better job. Maybe even Jugo!! Consider a 3.8 liter engine with just about 350 HP. That's no longer the pinacle guys!!

Evo X with 2 liters will make 300+ horses with full factory warranty.

Coming soon to a dealership near to you at 35 K or so ( including ALL options)!!

Cheers

HarryR

If Porsche makes their engine that produces 60hp per liter or even the ultimate C6 Z06 @ 85 hp per liter, I'm sure it would last forever without a hitch. But the regular 3.6 is doing 90.25 without the X51 kit and that's almost 96hp/liter. This is with plenty of low and mid-range torque that Japanese can't match. Have you seen the list of recalls on American cars? Give me one American engine that's sophisticated. They can't afford to make sophisticated engines.

Spend some time here to see how great your 200k miles American cars fare.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/home.cfm

You're worrying about reliability and you want to get a Masser or Aston? Now those are notorious cars for problems.

By the way, Porsche is now a major shareholder of VW.

So what the 3.8 has only 350hp? it has enough power and torque to almost match the 996 GT3s on the track with all the comfys. That's still 92 hp/liter.

If you get caught tracking or racing a EVO, all warranty void. And Mitsu is actively looking for owners at tracks to void warranty. Last time I hear, my Porsche dealer is paying for our racing numbers at PCA DEs.

Edited April 2, 2006 by alexcwt

[EdNewman]

I just pulled up Labor Day weekend Club Race results for Rd Am........just for what it's worth........all classes, about 250 cars........I only saw one (1) car.........I actually thought there would be a few more.

If you check out club races in the Noreast you will find 3 to 5 996's in C.

Just Riesentoter region has 3 996's in the C class.

2003 996 C2 with X51 with 6000 track miles and running strong. This oil change I am going to start doing oil analysis so I can better gauge the life of the engine. 6000 miles translates out to at least 60 hours which is the life span of a Cup car engine. I hope to get 10k on it.

[slbates]

I just pulled up Labor Day weekend Club Race results for Rd Am........just for what it's worth........all classes, about 250 cars........I only saw one (1) car.........I actually thought there would be a few more.

If you check out club races in the Noreast you will find 3 to 5 996's in C.

Just Riesentoter region has 3 996's in the C class.

2003 996 C2 with X51 with 6000 track miles and running strong. This oil change I am going to start doing oil analysis so I can better gauge the life of the engine. 6000 miles translates out to at least 60 hours which is the life span of a Cup car engine. I hope to get 10k on it.

Wow Ed! That is some serious time on an a track engine. Did you perform any mods to the engine?

[bnewport]

Photos of my blown engine.

http://www.trackpedia.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8379

Edited August 17, 2006 by bnewport

[Loren]

No one can see those images without joining that site.

Perhaps you could repost them here?

[bnewport]

No one can see those images without joining that site.

Perhaps you could repost them here?

I tried, I can't, I click add attachment and it hangs.

[bnewport]

Local photos

Edited August 17, 2006 by bnewport

[JimB]

As my pal Billy struggles to share his misery with us I thought I would revisit the portion of this thread from last year that dealt with how many 996 are being raced/tracked. As of a couple hours ago there were 16 stock C class cars entered in the inaugural Daytona PCA club race. 9 of them are 996s. A new record. :cheers:

I'm going to go out on a limb and pick a 996 to win. I've actually got one in mind...

Jim

[J.Seven]

I´m sad to say this, but from my own experience and many others 996 Porsche owners I know, the 996 and Boxster engines are far from reliable.

That´s why they didn´t use it on the GT3 and Turbo top of the line models.

It´s a wonderful car to drive, mitical design and deliver great road feeling, but those M96 engines are their main malady :(

The new 997 it´s much better in this regard, but there´s already some engine failures on these model too. See the last twoo links.

Broken 996 engine this month

Broken gearbox this month

Another broken gearbox this month

More broken gearbox

broken G.box

Broken engine

Interesting read

I had my engine blown too :thumbup:

A renntech member had his engine blown too

And many more broken engines

Broken engine

More and more 996 Engine failure

Even more

Ok Here´s some more engine failure links, their just too many to post.

http://www.911uk.com/forum/display_topic_t...mp;ThreadPage=4

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.a...=200454&h=0

http://www.theautobahn.com/forum/showthrea...4928#post184928

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1980762&page=1

http://www.devwebsphere.com/porsche/2005/0...ifters_may.html

997 Engine failure

997 engine seized

I am not saying Porsche is not reliable, every sport cars brand have their reliable issues, but Boxster and 996 series were prone to engine failures, and PAG never admited there was a problem. Everybody knows the M3 had some major engine issues too, but at least BMW admited. A friend of mine had two engine replacements on his M3 E46.

But still they remain the better cars to drive, Porsche that is :thumbup:

J.Seven

[GreggT]

2002 3.6........never tracked, pampered........dead.

Course, it wouldn't have been a big deal (for the owner) if it had been on warranty..........wasn't.

[viszla]

Quote from the article:"[T]hese all-new engines are surprisingly trouble-free -- especially in comparison with Porsche engines of the early 1970s."

Great achievement. If all else fails, lower your standards!

And because the all-new engines are so great and so much better than all the old rubbish, Porsche still has to use the old crankcases for their Turbo and GT3 engines.

Cheers,

Uwe

[HONEYMON57ER]

Pardon my ignorance but is the RMS issue linked with blown engines or

are these 2 seperate issues? I only ask because I had my RMS replaced

last week 61k.

[hemeoncdoc]

The RMS issue is not related to blown engines, just one more quality/design flaw we 996 owners will look forward to paying to fix.

In response to the earlier reply re recalls on American cars, at least they DO recalls. Porsche has a poor reputation to owning up to design flaws. They leave the hapless owner to either pay up, or ***** enough that Porsche may cover "parts not labor." That is, if you are lucky. The RMS issue is one of them.

[rlim]

Hi, I'm new to the forum ... Hello everyone!!

Picked up my 99 C2 about 3 weeks ago and it spent more time back at the dealer where I purchased the car from. The PPI detected leaking spark plug tubes which were repaired. As I was driving the car home, the temperature gauge’s light started blinking ... apparently the car was overheating. Also, an oil leak was discovered in my garage which the dealer looked after. Back to the dealer it went ... apparently, the coolant was low 2 liters. He told me that one of the tube/hose situated at the firewall was the culprit.... an $18 part plus over $200 labour.

Today, I discover another leak ... coolant! I left the dealer another message and will have to schedule another trip there. Good thing I put a white cardboard under the engine to monitor leaks. I'll admit that the dealer has been wonderful in responding to the problems. However, in the 3 weeks that I have since taken possession of the car, we have driven the car ... at most 3 days. Only wish I could enjoy it more especially when the warm weather is here.

Edited May 28, 2007 by rlim

[LVDell]

Hi, I'm new to the forum ... Hello everyone!!

Picked up my 99 C2 about 3 weeks ago and it spent more time back at the dealer where I purchased the car from. The PPI detected leaking spark plug tubes which were repaired. As I was driving the car home, the temperature gauge’s light started blinking ... apparently the car was overheating. Also, an oil leak was discovered in my garage which the dealer looked after. Back to the dealer it went ... apparently, the coolant was low 2 liters. He told me that one of the tube/hose situated at the firewall was the culprit.... an $18 part plus over $200 labour.

Today, I discover another leak ... coolant! I left the dealer another message and will have to schedule another trip there. Good thing I put a white cardboard under the engine to monitor leaks. I'll admit that the dealer has been wonderful in responding to the problems. However, in the 3 weeks that I have since taken possession of the car, we have driven the car ... at most 3 days. Only wish I could enjoy it more especially when the warm weather is here.

Not sure why you bought the car if it showed such such deficiencies. If there was nothing other than the plug leaks reported then your PPI guy screwed you. You do NOT have the problems you did in a week after a PPI that was satisfactory.

Remember though, that you have a 99. Coolant leak? Water pump or cracked coiolant reservoir I assume which is NOT b/c of an unreliable motor. Leaking spark plug coil packs is another age issue. We've all had them replaced. Sure hope you don't have to replace your air filter as well 'cause that might just send you over the edge.

Key to understand is this car was sold en masse unlike other P-Car models. You see more problems voiced b/c there ARE more cars out there. It is MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE to take care of a 993 than a 996. You want reliable bulletproof? Get a GT1 derived motor ala GT3/TT. There is a reason there is a price disparity between them and the "regular" Carrera's.

Hopefully, you are now on our way (when you get your car back) to some rewarding ownership :thumbup:

[rlim]

I am in agreement with you that the mechanic has a few misses. The dealer has so far been looking after the repairs as he has agreed to give me a 30 days warranty on the car. I just got off the phone with him and he stated that he will get the mechanic to wash the engine thoroughly to investigate for other leaks other than the coolant. Hopefully this will be my final trip.

[Joe Lasagna]

Pardon my ignorance but is the RMS issue linked with blown engines or

are these 2 seperate issues? I only ask because I had my RMS replaced

last week 61k.

I was informed by Pepe Motors (White Plains, NY) that the engine on my 2002 911 has to be replaced, at a cost of $12K. This is exactly 4 months after the RMS failed. The car has been pampered since I bought it (new, five years ago).

I've done a lot of research, and the two seem to be related. It's obvious that there is a design flaw with the seal, but Porsche will not acknowledge it.

If I new the consequences of the damaged seal when it happened, I would have gotten rid of the car.

Good Luck!!

[rpf996]

Hello all. I am a vette convert, having just purcharsed a 2002 911 carrera coupe six speed, with 86,000 miles & the car feels like the motor is brand new. I am absolutely shocked by what I am reading about longevity issues. I would expect & assume this motor has to be good for a 200,000 mile service life if maintained properly. MY 94 c220 Benz ran perfectly after 186,000 miles. Tha motor is a 16 valve inline four, which revs high like the 3.6 & produced 148 stock HP. My 87 Vette ran perfectly with full compression after 122,000 miles and my 97 vette in internal stock form with 80,000 miles was producing about 330RWHP, when just traded for the 911. The ls1 motor will easily run past the 200,000 mark and will have all its compression in so doing. So, I am wondering what the service life really is on the 3.6 320 HP motor. I am now really happy I have the full engine warranty for the next 45,000 miles, but have to say I didnt think I actually would be using it for a new motor from Porsche. Was I wrong about German engineering? I hope not.

[Jeff_C]

I was informed by Pepe Motors (White Plains, NY) that the engine on my 2002 911 has to be replaced, at a cost of $12K. This is exactly 4 months after the RMS failed. The car has been pampered since I bought it (new, five years ago).

I've done a lot of research, and the two seem to be related. It's obvious that there is a design flaw with the seal, but Porsche will not acknowledge it.

If I new the consequences of the damaged seal when it happened, I would have gotten rid of the car.

Good Luck!!

It would seem to me that the only way these 2 could be related is if the RMS leak was pretty severe and you let the oil run low (or out?!?!) for a long period of time OR you had a failing shaft that caused the RMS that was not diagnosed the first time. Of course you didnt say what the recent issue was so this is just conjecture on my part. Also, another common thing on RMS failures seems to be 'babying' the car or not using it enough. How many miles a year are you putting on your car? Just curious...

Jeff

[viper501]

Just to add another sad data point, my 99 996 C2 had 126k miles on it when it died about two weeks ago. Cruising on the interstate at legal-ish speeds. I felt the car hiccup and then the check engine light began flashing. Long story short is there is no compression on number two. One dealer said bent valve, the other that most likely the cylinder liner cracked or slipped. Car still runs, just won't idle and is down on power (imagine that). Have a new engine on order and hope to have it installed and up and running within two more weeks.

It really is pathetic that there are any failures of these motors, much less ones that are clearly a quality control failure. And as has been said before, many manufacturers have issues with their cars but Porsche seems resolute in saying that it isn't their fault. At least BMW warrantied their screwed up motors for 100k miles.

Looking back on it, the one thing that may have been a tip-off to impending doom was that the car would run hot on warm days, even with clean radiators and even after putting in the third radiator kit. Also, if I ran the car hard, I would occasionally get a flashing coolant light. Checking it showed no problem with the coolant level. Always thought that was odd.

Now I will have a two year unlimited mileage warranty on the motor and I intend to take full advantage of that. Given the miles I drive for work, I won't feel at all bad about the car being my daily driver.

[JohnJStewart]

Reading this with a Toasted 996 engine with 61k on and a full MDSH isn't much comfort.

As Jim would say, reliable my arse.

Correct Jim

[Vman]

Reading this with a Toasted 996 engine with 61k on and a full MDSH isn't much comfort.

As Jim would say, reliable my arse.

Correct Jim

Sadly I would say it the exception that a 99 996 motor lasts more than 60,000 miles and that you don't lose 2nd in your gear box. Locally of the 4 1999 996 owners I know that do some autocross, in a mature fashion...no clutch drops etc. 3 out of 4 of us have had intermediate shaft failures result in the need for engine replacement. I am in the painful process of having my car converted to a 997 3.8x51 as who knows how long 996 motors will remain cheap from the dealer and I am hoping the new motor will be an improvement as they have redesigned the intermediate shaft. The RMS leak is a minor inconvenience as it just costs a bit of change to put in a 997 seal, the problem with these motors is the block and intermediate shaft.

VM

Edited July 24, 2007 by Vman

[JohnJStewart]

996 Engine Failure

I would like to try and start a log of all the failed 996 engines to see how many there really are.

By the power of the internet, we could see if this is a significant problem or not once and for all.

I don't want to go off half cocked so would welcome any views as to how best to go about this.

[wross996TT]

996 Engine Failure

I would like to try and start a log of all the failed 996 engines to see how many there really are.

By the power of the internet, we could see if this is a significant problem or not once and for all.

I don't want to go off half cocked so would welcome any views as to how best to go about this.

Define significant problem...the problem (statistically) with using the internet is it tends to be a biased, inappropriate sample for drawing conclusions from. You could develop some hypotheses based on this sampling, but (scientific method) then requires some deductive reasoning (i.e., sampling plan) to provide insight to those hypotheses and ultimately lead to conclusions.

[LVDell]

996 Engine Failure

I would like to try and start a log of all the failed 996 engines to see how many there really are.

By the power of the internet, we could see if this is a significant problem or not once and for all.

I don't want to go off half cocked so would welcome any views as to how best to go about this.

two words....sampling bias.

speaking as a behavioral scientist that deals with this on a DAILY basis, there is absolutely NO WAY for you to get what you are looking for unless PCNA opens up their database to you. That isn't going to happen.

Edited August 13, 2007 by LVDell