Any advice...?

[wwest]

Moving traffic radar speeding citation at mile marker 144 Westbound on I-10 just east of Van Horn TX. Officer traveling in opposite direction said he clocked me at 88 in a 75. Absolutely certain he was wrong, but.....

[Thanatos69]

I'd say just buck up and take defensive driving (if you haven't already with in the past year and are a resident of TX). If it was a county or local officer you might try and fight it (but I wouldn't hold your breath on a chance to win) but when it comes to the TX DPS patrols its normally not worth it. The radar systems used by the DPS officers are pretty dang acurate, even in a situation like what you're talking about. I've been clocked in past by them in several situations and everytime it was pretty much dead on for how fast I was going. Good luck either way

[Izzy]

Not sure about Texas, but in other states (FL and NY) where I had tickets, all it took was to appear on the court date, stand up with the mass of people who pleaded not guilty or want to contest (the judge asked), get in line when they tell you, and they tell you when to come back at a specified date.

Typically come back 2 weeks later where the District Attorney has moved your speeding moving violation to a non-moving violation and no points. If you accept, and you should, then pay the amount and court fees and save the potential point and insurance issues.

They do this by the masses, so you are pretty much just a number they want to get rid of so they can get to the criminal dockets.

[dvdude]

Similar situation here in NJ, but with a twist:

I'm not a lawyer, but this was told to me by one. In NJ, the supreme court ruled that a moving violation could no longer be commuted to a non-moving violation. The result was that the number of "not guilty" pleas rocketed, clogging the court system. In response to this, a new moving violation (Operating a verhicle in an unsafe manner) was created carrying 0 points. This allowed the old process to continue, resulting in increased revenue and less "Traffic Court" traffic!!

[Demon]

I would agree with Richard. You have a chance of the Officer not showing if he forgets or has another appointment, but other than that you will more likely just waste your day going to court. Don't waste your time or money on all of the online "beat a ticket" defenses. They are all covered in a properly issued citation.

[wwest]

Well, I live in WA, so appearing in court in Van Horn TX is not exactly a desirable solution.

I have discovered that the TDPS manual covering the officers instructions on the use of moving radar basically says "don't go there". While stationary radar's reliability and accuracy is accepted ("Judicial Notice") by all US states and therefore cannot be challenged(***) in court, moving radar is an entirely different matter. NO US state had yet signed off on its use and/or accuracy.

*** but you can still challenge the officer own observations and certainty that it truly was your vehicle that the radar was "seeing" at the time of the citation.

Yesterday I FedXed a packet to the court asking that they have the county attorney (who will prosecute the case if it should come to that)review it and determine if the citation had validity.

Hopeful.....

[Thanatos69]

Good luck on that. Being from Texas I know how this normally works out. Small towns courts like that thrive off the revenue from the traffic violations.

[JimPDX]

Moving traffic radar speeding citation at mile marker 144 Westbound on I-10 just east of Van Horn TX. Officer traveling in opposite direction said he clocked me at 88 in a 75. Absolutely certain he was wrong, but.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How fast were you honestly going?

[dclement911]

Moving traffic radar speeding citation at mile marker 144 Westbound on I-10 just east of Van Horn TX. Officer traveling in opposite direction said he clocked me at 88 in a 75. Absolutely certain he was wrong, but.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

VAN Horn, Texas. That brings back memories. Got pulled over(with radar,Ithink it was 75 in a 65) and got an escort to the courthouse (at 11 pm). Judge came in and gave me 2 choices.

1. Plead guilty and pay the fine, $25.50.

2. Plead innocent and post bail, $75, and reappear in 2 weeks for trial.

Of course I plead guilty and I reached in my pocket and handed him $30. He then reached into his own pocket and gave me back $4.50!!! That was 32 years ago! Sounds like same good ol boy town to me.

Pay the fine laugh about it.

[wwest]

The problem was that when the officer stopped me I honestly couldn't say I hadn't been speeding. I did tell him that I thought 88 was a bit of a stretch however.

I had helped a lady with an overheating radiator at the rest area just East of Van Horn. She pulled out shortly before I did and as I accelerated up to speed she waved a "thanks" just as we passed (~3000 feet from the rest area) her and wife and I both waved back and I missed an upshift to third. Engine didn't like that but clutch in quickly and no harm done. Well no harm to the car anyway.

Except I didn't then know that the max speed at the top end of second is ~70 MPH.

When I let it be known that I would contest the citation the officer asked:

"Why would you do that, you just admitted that your engine over-speeded?"

I told him that I really didn't know how fast I had gone when the over-speed happened. Later tested and looked at the manual. test was ~66.

[D_Man]

I used to live in Texas, I have gotten many a ticket there. The best policy is dont get caught speeding. However now that you have there are a few things you can do.

1. Call the court an request defensive driving school. (this works once) this will allow you to pay the fine and I do not belive it will go on your record.

2. Get a Layer, Police in Texas write hundreds of tickets a day, trust me he cant remember everyone he gave a ticket to.

3. If you were in a small town it gets more difficult to find a Traffic lawyer.

4. Buy the very best Radar detector and keep on at all times. (Check the State Law first)

I lived in DFW metroplex we used Traffic Lawyers when ever possible. The bottom line is to take care of the ticket by the court appearance date shown on the ticket by ether no. 1 or 2.

Good Luck

D

[wwest]

I used to live in Texas, I have gotten many a ticket there. The best policy is dont get caught speeding. However now that you have there are a few things you can do.

1. Call the court an request defensive driving school. (this works once) this will allow you to pay the fine and I do not belive it will go on your record.

2. Get a Layer, Police in Texas write hundreds of tickets a day, trust me he cant remember everyone he gave a ticket to.

3. If you were in a small town it gets more difficult to find a Traffic lawyer.

4. Buy the very best Radar detector and keep on at all times. (Check the State Law first)

I lived in DFW metroplex we used Traffic Lawyers when ever possible. The bottom line is to take care of the ticket by the court appearance date shown on the ticket by ether no. 1 or 2.

Good Luck

D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. The defensive driving deal only works if you have a tX driver's license.

2. Last resort. He WILL remember this one, we had a very long conversation roadside.

3. Redmond WA is NOT a small town, just the attitude.

4. Gave up on radar detectors long ago, too many falses. Just be in no hurry (retired), always use cruise control when possible, have a wife as navigator by my side who also watches speed limit signs AND my speed. Of course those ahead who do have detectors (lots of those out there) brake lights (even detector light itself often at night) often give me warning.

Wife's rules on Autobahn:

No cruise control over 100MPH.

No consistent speeds over 130 MPH.

But she wasn't always watching......

Edited July 31, 2005 by wwest

[JimPDX]

The problem was that when the officer stopped me I honestly couldn't say I hadn't been speeding. I did tell him that I thought 88 was a bit of a stretch however.

I had helped a lady with an overheating radiator at the rest area just East of Van Horn. She pulled out shortly before I did and as I accelerated up to speed she waved a "thanks" just as we passed (~3000 feet from the rest area) her and wife and I both waved back and I missed an upshift to third. Engine didn't like that but clutch in quickly and no harm done. Well no harm to the car anyway.

Except I didn't then know that the max speed at the top end of second is ~70 MPH.

When I let it be known that I would contest the citation the officer asked:

"Why would you do that, you just admitted that your engine over-speeded?"

I told him that I really didn't know how fast I had gone when the over-speed happened. Later tested and looked at the manual. test was ~66.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My legal advice: pay the bail. My personal advice: know the speed limit in the area you are driving. Obey it.

If you get pulled over be polite to the officer and SAY NOTHING that could incriminate you like you did here. Right off the bat you admitted that you "...really didn't know how fast you were going"...now you have no grounds to contest the violation...the courts view such an admission as being careless behind the wheel because you have a duty as a driver to know the speed limit. The benefit of the doubt in will go to the state my friend...hope the fine isn't too hefty. Hang in there.

Jim

[wwest]

But.

First, I didn't admit that I was speeding, I only admitted to the officer that I didn't really know how fast (OR NOT!) I was going because I was distracted and I missed a shift.

I told him what had happened so he might see that the presumptive overspeed (roadway) would have been brief and unintentional. I'm sure he took my statement as meaning I couldn't prove I wasn't speeding and therefore he wrote the citation, valid or no.

He said that he was Eastbound and what he saw was my car passing everything in sight as I came around the curve (apex 3000 feet from rest stop I-10 entry westbound) . He said he visually judged me to be doing 86 and looked down at his radar and it indicated 88 MPH.

I then told him that I agreed, I HAD been passing everything in sight at that point and time because all four of us, three cars in front of me and myself, had just left the rest area and I had (of course) accelerated faster than they.

He then stated that he was also trained to use road signage and posts to visually judge a car's speed.

It is my understanding that our entire conversation by the roadside was video taped with the officer wearing a wireless mike.

Obviously I have since learned that the engine overspeed due to my failure to timely shift from 2nd to 3rd would not have allowed me to exceed ~70 MPH.

There are numerous reasons why I am certain it was the shift to 3rd that I missed but maybe the most telling one is that the top end of 3rd is over 100 MPH. As I said to the officer when he first stopped me and told me he clocked me at 88 MPH, " I don't think I was going THAT fast".

There is simply no way I could have been over 100 MPH and have it "register" that I was going less than 88.

Edited August 1, 2005 by wwest

[Demon]

If you can not say how fast you were going, how can you say you were in fact not speeding? I am not attacking you, but instead giving you the view the commissioner will have. I see cases like this every week, and about 98% of the defendants walk out of court losing. Jim is correct, do not say anything other than necessary when pulled over. Even the most innocent statemnets can be used against you from a traffic stop.

The statement from the trooper about first estimating your speed might be related to law. I don't know about TX but in CA the electronic device (IE radar or laser) is only used to confirm the initial estimation. The electronic evidence can not hold without a valid estimation.

[wwest]

But "NOW" I can say how fast I was going. At the time I only knew that my engine had gone overspeed, 7,000 RPM, because I was distracted and was not "timely" in shifting from 2nd to 3rd. According to the owners manual 7000 RPM in 2nd gear equals ~70 MPH.

I think the problem the officer might have in court is that he wrote the citation as if it was a moving radar citation ONLY. According to the Texas operations manual for traffic radar writing citations based on moving radar cannot be legally supported...