No start after engine swap

[JE 17]

The situation: Bought this 2002 S with a bad engine. Replaced it, now getting the P0336 for bad crank sensor. Per past posts here, have checked out the sensor from the new engine and the old one and both are fine at about 880 ohms between pins 1 and 2 and infinity to pin 3. 

My question: is there something simple I should examine before hauling it somewhere to get the wiring tests done? Yes, I've checked fuses and relays but as you know, the DME won't allow the fuel pump to run without a crank sensor reading.

Thanks.

[JFP in PA]

1 hour ago, JE 17 said:

The situation: Bought this 2002 S with a bad engine. Replaced it, now getting the P0336 for bad crank sensor. Per past posts here, have checked out the sensor from the new engine and the old one and both are fine at about 880 ohms between pins 1 and 2 and infinity to pin 3. 

My question: is there something simple I should examine before hauling it somewhere to get the wiring tests done? Yes, I've checked fuses and relays but as you know, the DME won't allow the fuel pump to run without a crank sensor reading.

Thanks.

Your next step would be to see if the DME is actually seeing any signal from the CPS, which requires a PST II, PIWIS, or similar oscilloscope diagnostic tool.  You could also check the wiring harness for continuity to the DME; pin 1 on the sensor should lead to terminal 78 on the DME, pin 2 to terminal 20, and pin 3 to terminal 28.  If any of those circuits shows a lack of continuity, you have a wiring issue.

[JE 17]

Thank you, I fear a trailer drive is in my future. I'll check for continuity.

[JFP in PA]

5 minutes ago, JE 17 said:

Thank you, I fear a trailer drive is in my future. I'll check for continuity.

 

Good luck, these types of issues are diagnostic time consuming; with luck you have a wiring or connector issue.

[JE 17]

A little update.

Just got back to this project after needing to get some daily drivers renovated.

As I surmised, I had managed to swap the cam and crank position sensors. So now I can crank it, and it pops a little, but won't start. 

Moving on with the Durametric to see if I can find a gremlin.

[JE 17]

Did get to run just a little but very roughly. Now moving on to check fuel pump.

Getting only a P0650 or 165 code.

 

[JFP in PA]

P0650 Check Engine Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) – Open Circuit

P0650 Check Engine Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) – Below Limit

P0650 Check Engine Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) – Above Limit

Check wiring from DME control module, pin IV/31, to instrument cluster for continuity.

1. Connect special tool 9637 to wiring harness (DME control module connector).

2. Remove connector X 2/3.

3. Connect ohmmeter to special tool 9637, pin IV/31, and to X 2/3 on pin side, pin 11.

Display: 0 - 5 ohms

If infinite ohms is displayed, check wiring harness for chafing and pinching damage.

4. Remove connector III of instrument cluster.

5. Connect ohmmeter to X 2/3, sleeve side, and to connector III of instrument cluster, pin 2.

Display: 0 - 5 ohms

If infinite ohms is displayed, check wiring harness for chafing and pinching damage.

Check wiring from DME control module, pin IV/31, to instrument cluster for short to ground.

1. Connect special tool 9637 to wiring harness (DME control module connector).

2. Remove connector III of instrument cluster.

3. Connect ohmmeter to special tool 9637, pin IV/31, and ground.

Display: infinite ohms

If 0 - 5 ohms is displayed, check wiring harness for chafing and pinching damage.

Check wiring from DME control module, pin IV/31, to instrument cluster for short to B+.

1. Connect special tool 9637 to wiring harness (DME control module connector).

2. Remove connector III of instrument cluster.

3. Switch on the ignition.

4. Connect voltmeter to special tool 9637, pin IV/31, and ground.

Display: 0 V

If battery voltage is displayed, check wiring harness for chafing and pinching damage.

[JE 17]

Yes, I saw that in another thread. Trying the simple stuff first!

Thanks!

[JE 17]

I got the full 850cc fuel volume as specified. So now I'm left with this electronic problem which appears to require a factory tool. Am I correct?

 

[JFP in PA]

14 hours ago, JE 17 said:

I got the full 850cc fuel volume as specified. So now I'm left with this electronic problem which appears to require a factory tool. Am I correct?

 

 

A "global" OBD II scanner (read on OEM tool) should be able to see a lot of things, but when you get down to the more difficult diagnostics, a Porsche specific tool like the Durametric system, PST II, or PIWIS can see thing that the global tool cannot, and most global tools are incapable of doing system actuations for test purposes.

[JE 17]

So it doesn't appear my Durametric will be of much help. Great.

 

[JFP in PA]

1 minute ago, JE 17 said:

So it doesn't appear my Durametric will be of much help. Great.

 

 

You Durametric system is as close as you are going to get to something like the PIWIS without spending $20,000 to lease a factory tool.  The Durametric is very capable, I use one my self for most things.  But on thing you need to remember: Diagnostic tools only give you a sense of direction, not a set of directions; so any of them, including the almighty PIWIS, are only as good as the intuition of the operator.  Diagnostic's are slow and often arduous, often leading down several dead ends before your find the actual problem by a process of elimination.

[JE 17]

I understand that. 

The diagnostic appears to require a special tool (9637) which I can't seem to find anywhere, and I'm not sure it would be cost-effective if I did. I'm not good at all with electronics and accept that. I see I'll need to consult a professional on this unless I get lucky and trip over the cause. In that case, I'm sure I'll win the Cayman GT4 in club drawing too!

 

[JE 17]

Forgot to mention: Durametric shows no bank 2 cam activation when it runs. 

And thanks for your wisdom!

[JFP in PA]

12 minutes ago, JE 17 said:

I understand that. 

The diagnostic appears to require a special tool (9637) which I can't seem to find anywhere, and I'm not sure it would be cost-effective if I did. I'm not good at all with electronics and accept that. I see I'll need to consult a professional on this unless I get lucky and trip over the cause. In that case, I'm sure I'll win the Cayman GT4 in club drawing too!

 

 

The magic "pin out box", made by special order by the elf's of the Black Forest, with a $2,000+ price tag.  What it does is to allow you to connect a multimeter to circuits that are already completely connected and test for voltage and/or continuity.  In reality, you can do the same thing with thin wire back pin probes that slip into the rear of the car's connectors and get the same readings:

 

 

 

No where as elegant as the factory pinout box, but they are one Hell of a lot cheaper and get the job done.

[JFP in PA]

20 minutes ago, JE 17 said:

Forgot to mention: Durametric shows no bank 2 cam activation when it runs. 

And thanks for your wisdom!

 

Could be a sign that the DME has a RoW tune in it rather than the North American code.

[JE 17]

It does. 

Since I went with the 996 TB, I got a 996 ROW tune.

[flyingpenguin]

"As I surmised, I had managed to swap the cam and crank position sensors."

 

It happens to the best!

 

Several years back had the same issue, but male and female connectors are color coded (grey for crank and black for cams IIRC), so will pay better attention from the get-go next time..

[JE 17]

On 4/7/2021 at 8:03 AM, JFP in PA said:

P0650 Check Engine Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) – Open Circuit

P0650 Check Engine Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) – Below Limit

P0650 Check Engine Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) – Above Limit

Check wiring from DME control module, pin IV/31, to instrument cluster for continuity.

1. Connect special tool 9637 to wiring harness (DME control module connector).

2. Remove connector X 2/3.

3. Connect ohmmeter to special tool 9637, pin IV/31, and to X 2/3 on pin side, pin 11.

Display: 0 - 5 ohms

If infinite ohms is displayed, check wiring harness for chafing and pinching damage.

4. Remove connector III of instrument cluster.

5. Connect ohmmeter to X 2/3, sleeve side, and to connector III of instrument cluster, pin 2.

Display: 0 - 5 ohms

If infinite ohms is displayed, check wiring harness for chafing and pinching damage.

Check wiring from DME control module, pin IV/31, to instrument cluster for short to ground.

1. Connect special tool 9637 to wiring harness (DME control module connector).

2. Remove connector III of instrument cluster.

3. Connect ohmmeter to special tool 9637, pin IV/31, and ground.

Display: infinite ohms

If 0 - 5 ohms is displayed, check wiring harness for chafing and pinching damage.

Check wiring from DME control module, pin IV/31, to instrument cluster for short to B+.

1. Connect special tool 9637 to wiring harness (DME control module connector).

2. Remove connector III of instrument cluster.

3. Switch on the ignition.

4. Connect voltmeter to special tool 9637, pin IV/31, and ground.

Display: 0 V

If battery voltage is displayed, check wiring harness for chafing and pinching damage.

Ok, so I removed the engine to check cam timing. That was just slightly off in bank 2.

What I did notice was cracking in every coil, so all have been replaced.

Back to troubleshooting: starts right up, but still sputters and dies.

I checked using the above procedures as well as I could, lacking the corresponding "pin IV/31" information as I don't have that tool. The Bentley is a bit short of explanations as to somewhere similar to check, as well as how to identify "connector III" of the instrument cluster. I believe it only has one yellow with green stripe, as I found that same wire on connector X 2/3 in the trunk. That cluster connector was loose and not locked in place. This had no effect on my continuing code P650. I also got a 9110 code from the cluster.

Where can I go from here? MAF sensor?

Edited May 15, 2021 by JE 17

[JE 17]

Another thought: I have another complete harness. Though it wouldn't be fun, I could swap them. The complication is that I believe one of these is a different year. Does that make a difference? 

[JFP in PA]

Yes, it matters.

[JE 17]

Then it could be the problem. Is there anything definitive I could check on the harness to determine the proper one to use?

 

[Loren]

Porsche wiring harnesses are custom built to the cars specs. So you need to find one with the same or more specs than your car to have any hope of straight forward swap.

Too many wires is much better than not enough.

[JE 17]

Small, well, large, update.

I tried to swap harnesses with the engine in the car. 

That isn't going to happen. So I dropped it (4 times now, but who's counting?!) out.

Put it back in yesterday. Hooked up Durametric and have no codes. So far, so good.

I am just waiting on a coolant hose I somehow missed--ok, really the PET didn't differentiate between the two large ones, so I had to order the right one, after ordering two lefts. (I now have a spare left hose I'll just save for the '99 since it's really due for all new ones at 22 years.)

 

 

[JE 17]

Repeating code 9110 and 165.

Color me frustrated and finding someone, likely 200 miles away, who can diagnose.