Mobil1 0W-40 Discontinued???

[LVDell]

So I was out shopping yesterday at the local automotive store and I asked why they haven't had 0W-40 for some time now and it is getting harder and harder to find. He said that Mobil1 is discontinuing the 0W-40 line (funny since Mobil1 lists it on the webstie) and rec'd owners to use 5W-30 b/c Mobil1 tests have shown that is actually performs BETTER. I haven't seen a Porsche TSB nor a change to the approved oils list.

I didn't believe a thing that counter rep had to say but it got me thinking.......

So..........2 questions:

1) Is 0W-40 discontinued?

2) What is the replacement(s)?

[djantlive]

M1 0-40 is always hard to find since it's a European formula. I've found some at Kragen and I stock up when I do.

Mobil's website has 0-40 listed as Porsche specified. 5-30 is not. The tight tolerance of new euro engines may not get sufficient lubrication at start up and enough protection at hot engine temperature from 5-30. However, I don't know of any engine failure as a result of oil viscosity used. I ran 5-30 in a MB E class without ill effect for a couple of years. However, that car runs cooler than a rear engine 996. Having the right viscosity has a lot to do with gas mileage. If you can't find 0-40 anywhere, 5-30 is probly a good substitute but I'd try to order up some 0-40 even if you had to do it by mail.

Mibil 0-40 has a new bottle look and is still listed on their website. As far as I can tell, it's still available.

http://mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/O...il_1_0W-40.aspx

[1999Porsche911]

LVDell: You should be running either 10W - 40 or 15W - 50 there in Vegas. There is absolutely no benefit going to the low 0W with temps like you have. Even in the summer here in Chicagoland, I run 15W - 50 Mobil. Statements that the Variocam need the 0W is bull**** and a 15W has the same flow rate as does 0W in moderate climantes anyway and you gain additional protection when it really gets hot.

[djantlive]

Have you poured 15-50? It's thicker than 0-40 or 5-30 for sure.

I have heard 10-40 dino juice has too much additive and is not recommended. Not sure about synthetic or if this is actually true.

0-40 is the only weigh approved by Porsche. Modern engines are moving to thinner oil to improve engine efficiency as modern oil provide good protection at high temperature.

[LVDell]

Well my dealer (both Porsche and MB) pour ONLY 0W-40 in the cars. If Porsche and MB states (more specifically Porsche) that Mobil1 0W-40 is the factory fill and approved oil for the cars then that is all I am going to pour as a DIY'er. What I was more interested in was if anybody had info that either is was discontinued and if so what Porsche has changed to. I did find the oil at Checker (Kragen's).

[D_Man]

Bought 20 Qt's last week at AutoZone, It is always sold out, so if you see some Buy it. I have purchased it at WalMat and AutoZone at times but I rarely see cases of the stuff laying around. You might want to buy a couple of cases online and stock up.

D

[1999Porsche911]

Have you poured 15-50? It's thicker than 0-40 or 5-30 for sure.

I have heard 10-40 dino juice has too much additive and is not recommended. Not sure about synthetic or if this is actually true.

0-40 is the only weigh approved by Porsche. Modern engines are moving to thinner oil to improve engine efficiency as modern oil provide good protection at high temperature.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First of all, at normal ambient temperatures of 80F, both oils pour equally. Secondly, 0W - 40 IS NOT the only weight oil recommended by Porsche. It is only the factory fill. Recommended oil for -13F and above it 0W-40, 5W-40 and 5W-50 for the 2005 engines. On some ofthe older engine, including the 3.4, 15W-50 was also recommended. There is no way I would run 0W-40 where the average temp is above 80F, especially in a hot running engine like the 3.4. Porsche only insists on 0W-40 when temperature is generally below -13F. When was the last time the temp in the southwest was below -13F.

At minimum, I would run 5W-50, but presfer the 15W-50. It would not surprise me to see Porsche change the 0W oil to the upside in the near future. But, life is full of choices, just make sure the choice you make has sound basis.

[gchu]

I missed when they still available at Costco for $4.00/qt. After that, I got the M1 0W40 from ParkPlace Porsche @ www.parkplacetexas.com for $5.85 a qt. No sale tax and $6.00 flat shipping. I purchased 24 qts and average about $5.00/qt as I pickup local plus sale tax. I also found at least few WalMark & AutoZone stores still carry it in the BayArea for $5.00/qt.

[Richard Hamilton]

M1 0W-40 is still freely available over here, and used by all OPC's. Personally, I run 5W-40. The cheapest I have seen M1 here in the UK was at Costco at 6.00GBP/litre - that's over $11.00!!!

[JimPDX]

Dell...

Its a little hard to find but it is still available up here. When I see it at Schucks or GI Joes...I always buy a couple of extra QT's. They're web site doesn't say its dicontinued.

I may be going down to the local Wal-Mart and see if they have a supply. I think you can order it from Wal-mart on line.

[Tool Pants]

No problem finding 0W-40 here. Sometimes the shelf is empty but then it shows up.

I saw it at my dealer last week and noticed the shape of the container changed. The mechanic I talked to did not like the new shape.

I waiting to see if Mobil makes the 0W-40 in their extended performance version.

[ar38070]

Just saw it at the wal-mart in the bay are for $4.89. They had plenty on the shelf at the Mountain View store.

As an interesting note, pro racers, at least the ones that I asked, use 0w-40. Evidently it protects well enough (of course they rebuild their engines frequently, but they have not seen any unusual problems). They use it as it is good for a few extra hp (less drag).

[LVDell]

Well, the 5W does make more sense than 0W out here but I am not sure about the 40 v. 50 weight issue for the higher temps. It sounds like they (my local dealer) should be using and rec'd the 5W-50 for this region. Low about 20 F in the winter and high about 120-125 F in the summer.

Thoughts on that logic?

FYI....Mobil 1 doesn't list a 50 weight oil just the EP line and it is 15W-50. Also, they don't list a 5W-40 or 5W-50....just in 5W is the 5W-20 and 5W-30 in the 1 line and 5W-30 in the EP line.

Edited June 23, 2005 by LVDell

[1999Porsche911]

Well, the 5W does make more sense than 0W out here but I am not sure about the 40 v. 50 weight issue for the higher temps.  It sounds like they (my local dealer) should be using and rec'd the 5W-50 for this region.  Low about 20 F in the winter and high about 120-125 F in the summer.

Thoughts on that logic?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't put much credence in what a dealer says. Here is an example. I wanted to find the required tranny lube for my 99 so I called the 6 dealers in the area. EACH one gave me different info. Ranging from only use fossil gear lube to use any $3/liter brand you can find at the local auto store. Just yesterday, I went to pickup the RIGHT lube from a dealer that I had ordered after I provided them with the part number. While I was there, I asked about the PCV valve in the 99. Parts could not find it on the diagram and 2 of the mechanics, who I had look at my car had no idea where is was located on the car or if it even had one.Finally, 1 mechanic was interested in looking at the sensor reading on my SC'd engine so I let them hook up the tester. They noted that bank 1 LTFT was more negative than was bank2. This I knew and I knew the reason why. However, he called over 2 other "so called" technicians to look at it and each and every one of them insisted that my MAF was bad without any doubt. I asked them why they thought that and they said because the fuel trim on bank 1 was removing more fuel that it should be. I told them that the MAF could only effect BOTH banks equally and they argued that the MAF effected each bank separately.

It was close to closing time, so I bet them each $100 that they were wrong and that I could prove it is they installed a brand new MAF right from the part's department. One of them disappeared and shortly returned with a MAF still in the box. We recorded the readings of my MAF, Fuel trims, etc and then installed the new one. We then looked at the readings and, guess what? They were the same as before. One tech went and got the service manual and a memo that clearly stated that he was right in that the MAF was the cause of the difference in fuel trim between banks.

So you see, for most techs, their extend of knowledge comes from what a piece of paper says and they have little to no experience or even understanding of the cars they work on. Unfortuantely most of them hae never worked on a non-computerized engine and have no basic understanding of how an engine works.

Finally resolution of our bet was me getting the $96 worth of gear lube free of cost.

With temperatures as high as 135 out by you, I would recommend going to the 50 weight oil. It will give you the same protection as the 5W-40 or 15W-40 but will give you better protection on the hot days.

[Mother]

I agree with 1999Porsche911 on the oil, I'm parcial to fossil oil Castrol 20-50 here in Arizona where the climate is extreme and have used in my BMW and others however, in my Range Rover 20-50 was causing my lifters to be noisey on startup, so switched to 10-30 and it solved the problem. Personelly I opt for heavier oil in higher temp climates for the protection and a quiter sounding engine. My knowldge is limited with the synthetic oils, but would think the principle would be the same.

[plima]

Under most conditions, nearly any clean oil will protect your engine. I am happy sticking to Porsche's recommended 0w-40 Mobil 1 for my GT3, even though it gets lots of heavy load driving. I think Porsche (and BMW) want the lower weights to improve the start-up performance of both the hydraulic lifters and vario-cam mechanisms. And, if your motor isn't really worn out, 40 weight works very well.

[LVDell]

Looks like I will just stick with the 0W-40 and stock up next time I see it. Didn't see anything as 1999P911 rec'd like the 15W-50 other than the "SUV" formula in the EP line.

Maybe somebody can explan the pro's and cons of 0 v. 5 for the winter (W) weight and 40 v. 50 for the high end on the blends. I have read extensively on this and still don't see what I gain and in fact can possible hinder by deviating from the 0W-40.

[plima]

The basics: the number followed by a "w" is for viscosity at 0 degC and the number without the "w" is for high temp (I think it is 100 degC) Since many fluids (like petroleum oils w/out additives) get thinner with temperature, both ratings are important. You want good flow at low temperature to protect the startup phase (where most wear takes place), and 0w gives you a lower temperature protection than 5w. On the high end, you don't want it to be too thin (and 50 is thicker than 40). With Mobil 1 and other good synthetics, the change in viscosity is smaller over temperature w/o lots of additives. Again, 0w-40 synthetic (e.g. Mobil 1) gives great low and high temp prot.

[1999Porsche911]

Don't forget about the shear factor that reduces the maximum viscosity. On many oils, a viscosity is reduced to as low as 30 because of the shearing of the oil in the engine. This is very evident at high temps and rpms. The stated maximum viscosity is measured at 212 degrees and many of our engines are running hotter than that.

[LVDell]

212? I assume that is F? Do you have any documentation that you could point me towards. Thanks everybody!

Thanks for helping me learn about this stuff so I am not just doing what I am told by a piece of paper but rather making informed decisions.

BTW, I would be curious to know what the cup cars in the GT class are running (just the Porsche's) during those grueling long days at high RPM's???

[1999Porsche911]

212?  I assume that is F?  Do you have any documentation that you could point me towards.  Thanks everybody! 

Thanks for helping me learn about this stuff so I am not just doing what I am told by a piece of paper but rather making informed decisions.

BTW, I would be curious to know what the cup cars in the GT class are running (just the Porsche's) during those grueling long days at high RPM's???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are numerous sites to get info from. many display tests performed by a specific manufacturer. Here are a few:

http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/ap...roiltesting.htm

http://www.answers.com/topic/motor-oil-2

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

Jim

[LVDell]

Many thanks Jim!

Cheers,

Dell

[LVDell]

O.K., so I did some more research on the oil I currently use and then the one rec'd by Jim (50W) and below are the data for the oil respectively. Can anybody please interpret some of this so I can understand it in "plain English"? After all the reading I have done, I am still stumped. Thanks to Jim for the links.....very informative.

MOBIL 1 0W-40 // MOBIL 1 EP 15W-50

Viscosity, ASTM D 445 // 445

cSt @ 40º C 80 // 133

cSt @ 100º C 14.3 // 18.2

Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 187 // 153

Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.2 // 1.42

HTHS Viscosity, mPa·s @ 150ºC ASTM D 4683 3.6 // 4.43

Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -54 // -42

Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 236 // 241

Density @15º C kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.855 // 0.866

Thanks again!

Edited June 24, 2005 by LVDell

[1999Porsche911]

Dell:

The "High Shear" viscosity number is the one that actually correlates with oil film thickness on your bearings at operating temperature. The 0W-40 only has a shear rating of HSHT value of 2.9 cP at 150ºC . 15W - 50 has a HSHT value of 3.7 cP or 27% more viscous oil at 150ºC .

As a matter of fact, Mercedes-Benz recommends use of ONLY Synthetic Motor Oil that is at least SAE 5W-40! This is a recent increase in recommended viscosity from SAE 5W-30. Apparently customer research indicated that engine longevity is more important to typical MB customer than fuel economy.

Any of the quality oils with weights of 0w -40 will give you the protection you need in the short run and probably an unmeasurable increase in fuel economy. However, for long term protection of the bearings, a 10W or 15W - 40 or 50 should prove better. In your case, since you do not have any bitter weather like hear in Chicago, I see not downside up moving up to a higher viscosity.

I really believe that the 0W oil is a fad and, like Mercedes, it will be found that a higher shear viscosity and the longevity it provides the engine will outweight the fuel economy.

[LVDell]

Looks like a switch to the EP line is where I need to be to get the 10W-40 or 10W-50 oil since i can't get ANY of those combo's in the 1 line. Concur?