Motor lost power, won't start, now makes strange sound instead of turning over.

[hvymetal1234]

Well I'm afraid of the answer I may get, but I'll try anyway. I have only had this car a week, but I generally know cars. I was driving the car say 70 or so and the motor lost power and I coasted to a stop. It wouldn't start. Now it makes the strangest sound, almost like a whirring sound. Is it perhaps that the timing chain broke and the motor lost compression on all cylinders? I didn't hear anything weird til it lost power. I had to get a ride home and I'm going to fetch the car tomorrow, just wondering what you guys think. Thanks for the help.

[JFP in PA]

While you did give the year and model, I think you are in trouble.  What you describe is the typical description of an IMS failure. If anything let go in the cam drive system, you bent every valve in the engine, or worse.  I would suggest dropping the oil filter and looking for any signs of metal; it there is, the engine is toast.

 

Let us know what you find.  Good luck.

[hvymetal1234]

Thanks JFP. 1999 2.5L. I'll have to get the car in the next couple of days.

[hvymetal1234]

I will definitely let you know what I find.

[hvymetal1234]

I think it is the ims too. The car only has 63,000 miles. So here's my idea: have it towed to the Porsche dealership and have them tell me what's wrong. And then maybe they'll pay me off to go away? It's a 99 so not covered under the settlement. I'm sure it's wishful thinking, but who knows? Anyone see a problem with this plan?

[JFP in PA]

1 hour ago, hvymetal1234 said:

I think it is the ims too. The car only has 63,000 miles. So here's my idea: have it towed to the Porsche dealership and have them tell me what's wrong. And then maybe they'll pay me off to go away? It's a 99 so not covered under the settlement. I'm sure it's wishful thinking, but who knows? Anyone see a problem with this plan?

 

Exactly why would Porsche even give you the time of day?  The car is WAY out of warranty, so unless you purchased it from a Porsche dealer and they issued you a CPO, they realistically (and legally) owe you nothing.

[hvymetal1234]

A motor that blows up at 63000 miles? Is this for real? 

 

[hvymetal1234]

I know I'm taking a risk with a used car no matter what. But if a motor in a car is running well in say a chevy, you can reasonably assume that it will keep doing so, say I don't know for 250,000 miles. It's obviously a faulty motor. Do you really think they won't give me the time of day? That would be an interesting way to conduct business.

[JFP in PA]

4 hours ago, hvymetal1234 said:

I know I'm taking a risk with a used car no matter what. But if a motor in a car is running well in say a chevy, you can reasonably assume that it will keep doing so, say I don't know for 250,000 miles. It's obviously a faulty motor. Do you really think they won't give me the time of day? That would be an interesting way to conduct business.

 

I have had customers with 100,000 and over 200,000 miles on the M96 engine without issues, but I have also seen IMS failures at 5,000 miles as well.  Probably the worst case scenario I am aware of was a customer that had one blow with less than 10K miles, Porsche honored it, and the new engine blew 6K miles after being installed.  He got a third engine under warranty, drove down the street and traded the car in on another make.  Fecal matter occurs.

 

When the vehicle was sold new, it had a four year or 50,000 mile warranty for the original owner.  As you are at least the second owner, if not further down the ownership chain, the car is 21 years old, and us nearly 20,000 miles over the warranty limit, which ran out of time 17 years ago, no, they will not be going out of their way to help you.  PCNA was balking at warrantying engines with IMS failures that were inside the time limit, but slightly over the mileage limit way back when, so unless they are feeling overly philanthropical, you are out of luck.  I’m sure they will be happy to sell you a factory reman engine and install it, but on your dime.

 

Porsche really wishes the IMS failure issue would simply disappear, and has long since (eleven years ago) replaced the M96 with the 9A1, which does not have an IMS.

[hvymetal1234]

Well I guess that was a fun experiment in German sports cars, can't hang with a Camaro! What a **** motor!

[hvymetal1234]

I do appreciate your help though!

 

[½cwt]

Isn't the '99 2.5 fitted with a double row IMS? as are early 2.7 and 3.2 M96 motors IIRC.  These are significantly less prone to IMS failure, so I'd look at other possibilities too.

[JFP in PA]

8 hours ago, ½cwt said:

Isn't the '99 2.5 fitted with a double row IMS? as are early 2.7 and 3.2 M96 motors IIRC.  These are significantly less prone to IMS failure, so I'd look at other possibilities too.

 

Dual rows do still fail, just at lower numbers; but they definitely do fail.  Which is why I told him to pull the oil filter and look for metal.  If it is full, it really doesn't matter what the exact cause of the failure was, the outcome is still the same.

 

And while some 2.7L engines had the dual rows, many did not; same applies to the 3.2L,

[hvymetal1234]

Ok guys I'm back, sorry for the delay I had to wait until I was in the right mood to do this. I dropped the oil and filter, and... no metal. I ran it through a strainer too. So I'm like, did I overreact or not? Changed oil and filter. Went to start it, but didn't hear fuel pump, so I jumped the relay. But alas, no start. I think we can rule out the fuel pump because it didn't start while jumping it. Also the relay is probably good but the system wasn't calling for fuel? Has new coils and plugs and ran good like that til it died. So I made a video:  

 

 Also, theres some liquid dripping from this clamp on the cat. Maaayyybe oily? Kinda watery. Not sure if its related. Also what's up with that flashing temp light? What do you think and thanks for the help.

 

 

-Ross

[hvymetal1234]

Also I pulled one plug to check for spark which there was but it was very wet in there. Honestly I can't imagine there being that much gas in there. It did smell like gas but something was off to me. Who knows I'm tired now. Maybe tomorrow I'll get further.

[hvymetal1234]

One last piece of bad news for the night. Coolant reservoir is empty. Must be water in the engine.

[JFP in PA]

11 hours ago, hvymetal1234 said:

One last piece of bad news for the night. Coolant reservoir is empty. Must be water in the engine.

 

Considering it is a 2.5, you may have "D-chunked" the engine cases.

 

[hvymetal1234]

Thanks for the help JFP. I don't feel like fixing this, what would you do with the car, just call the junkyard?

[JFP in PA]

Before doing anything, you need to confirm what is actually wrong (e.g.: Bore scoping/compression testing/leak down testing cylinders 2 and 5, the ones the commonly D chunk, pressure testing the cooling system to verify you have a leak, dropping the oil and looking for presence of coolant,. etc.).  If you have then confirmed the 2.5 is toast, you can sell the car as a "roller" for someone to undertake as a project (late model Porsche's with dead engines still have substantial value).  Scrapping the car without confirming the engine is gone would be both foolish and a financial loser as a replacement engine can be sourced from a wreck for a few thousand dollars. 

[hvymetal1234]

Ok, that's good advice, I'll compression test it. I can pressure test the cooling system too. There was no coolant in the oil. What do you think a 99 boxster roller is worth?

[JFP in PA]

The obviously is dependent upon the condition of the car and how it is equipped, but $3-5 K for a decent roller is not uncommon.

[hvymetal1234]

OK Thanks for the info.