No Oil pressure after fixing timing chains

[AWDGuy]

I am stumped and hoping someone can help me.

 

In June, I attended a track day and I changed my oil after the track event (like I do each track event) and I found a small piece of metal on my LNE magnetic plug.  I stopped driving the car immediately as I have never had metal on the motor since I rebuilt it in 2016.  Since 2016 the car has had several track days, and ran flawlessly.  Oil pressure was always great, even right up until I pulled the motor out to repair the timing chains.

 

I removed the scavenger pump on Bank 2 as I could see oil sweating from it.  I took it apart and saw a perfect indentation of a eclip in the gear.  My wife turned the motor manually for me until i could see the master link and sure enough, it was missing an eclip.  Jake got me hooked up with IWIS, and they sent me the new master clip design with one c-clip sliding over both master link posts instead of 2 e-clips going over a master link post each.  That repair was done by doing the following:

 

1 - Drain oil & remove sump to check for debris (there was nothing in the sump other than a couple strings of the black gasket stuff)

2 remove engine and trans as 1 piece

3 - separated trans, mufflers and engine mount bracket from long block

4 - Lock down/timed camshafts on bank 2, removed valve cover, used special tools to lock down cams that allowed us to rotate the engine until we could get to the master link

5 - Slide new master link in and insert c-clip

6 - Recheck timing by locking down camshafts

7 - re-install valve cover

8- Repeated on Bank 1 (bank 1 still has all the eclips but I obviously no longer trusted the design and replaced it anyways.)

9- re-install sump plate

 

Sump plate was off for about a month while the engine was on the stand.  I really don't think something crawled up the engine stand and made a home in my engine but I guess anything is possible.  

 

Never touched the pump, the block, or even the heads other than turning the motor manually and repairing the missing e clip.

 

I re-installed the motor, added fluids and

did3 or 4 quick starts and shut off then ran it for a good 15 seconds until the low oil pressure light came on.  

 

Shut it off immediately after I saw that warning.  No oil pressure on my car gauge.  

 

Figured it was the sensor, so hooked up mechanical gauge.  Same thing, doesn't even budge.  pinned at 0.

 

So...steps Ive taken to trouble shoot my no oil pressure:

 

1- Removed sump plate again to see if pick up is blocked - looks clean as a whisttle

2 -Tried a new oil filter as I read a collapsed oil filter can cause issues with oil pressure (i have the LNE spin on)

3-last night, I removed all the exhaust off supported the engine and removed the oil pump cover hoping to see a shared hex drive, nope.  Everything works great inside the pump.  with the cover off and the gears still in, you can turn the engine manually and see everything move as it should.  

 

Yes, there is oil in the engine :)

 

Why does my motor have 0 oil pressure?!?!!?!?

Edited October 26, 2018 by AWDGuy

[JFP in PA]

You need to look at your oil pump, particularly the pressure by pass assembly.  If metal was circulated, it could have either destroyed the pump gears or jammed open the by pass.

[AWDGuy]

6 minutes ago, JFP in PA said:

You need to look at your oil pump, particularly the pressure by pass assembly.  If metal was circulated, it could have either destroyed the pump gears or jammed open the by pass.

Forgot to list that as something I already checked.

 

1st thing I did actually before pulling the motor.  Pulled the releif valve out and everything slid out nice.

 

Look at the piston and cylinder...no scoring whatsoever and that piston slides up and down the cylinder very well.

[AWDGuy]

What happens if I try running the motor with just the plug in? Remove the piston and spring & see if get pressure??

[AWDGuy]

The oil pump is new from 2016 rebuild.  The piston is beveled ontop so I beleive i have the newest part 

[JFP in PA]

1 hour ago, AWDGuy said:

What happens if I try running the motor with just the plug in? Remove the piston and spring & see if get pressure??

 

You will have no oil pressure, which is also what you would have if something was holding the piston off its seat.

 

If you pull and open the oil pump cassette, you can inspect the gears for pitting or chipping, which would also reduce or kill oil pressure, and check the oil pump drive shaft which is an investment cast piece that is well know for failing.  If the drive shaft has crapped out, LN engineering sells a chrome moly replacement that will outlive the car.

[AWDGuy]

ok, thanks.

 

The hex shaft is an LNE unit.  Everything in the pump is clean.  No scoring anywhere.  With the cover off the oil pump, and turning the engine manually, the gears move with ease.

[AWDGuy]

The car starts with no issues, idle seems with fine with no unusual noises, but I shut it off rather quickly when I get the warning on the dash.

[JFP in PA]

6 minutes ago, AWDGuy said:

ok, thanks.

 

The hex shaft is an LNE unit.  Everything in the pump is clean.  No scoring anywhere.  With the cover off the oil pump, and turning the engine manually, the gears move with ease.

 

OK, then you need to start looking at other suspects.  There are a series of hammer in plugs, much like freeze out plugs, in your engine's oiling system; one of these may have popped loose.  It find it without taking the engine apart (which you may end up doing anyway, depending upon where it is), you need to connect an oil filled pressure chamber to the oiling system and then pressure the oil backwards into the system, looking for where the oil comes pouring out.

 

[AWDGuy]

Ok, thanks again.

 

I'll try a few more things but I'm not disassembling the motor again, I'll sell it at a major loss before I go through that again.  

 

this car absolutely hates me.  that's quite obvious.

[AWDGuy]

wouldn't I still have some pressure though? 

Edited October 26, 2018 by AWDGuy

[JFP in PA]

4 minutes ago, AWDGuy said:

wouldn't I still have some pressure though?

 

Depends.  Assuming the pump is working correctly, how much pressure will remain in a pressurized system depends upon the size (read cross sectional volume) of the leak.  Small leak = reduced pressure, big leak = no pressure.

[AWDGuy]

aren't those for the cooling system, if they were missing, wouldnt I be losing coolant?

Edited October 26, 2018 by AWDGuy

[JFP in PA]

24 minutes ago, AWDGuy said:

aren't those for the cooling system, if they were missing, wouldnt I be losing coolant?

 

That photo is of a cooling system plug, but there are very similar plugs for the oil passages as well.  The photo is the first example I could find.

[AWDGuy]

It's still strange.  Engine ran great before being pulled for the timing chain repair  

 

If it's a plug, I have very, very bad luck.

 

And everything I've read in the last 45 min about freeze plugs shows intermix issues.  Sludge like crazy....

Edited October 26, 2018 by AWDGuy

[JFP in PA]

2 minutes ago, AWDGuy said:

It's still strange.  Engine ran great before being pulled for the timing chain repair  

 

If it's a plug, I have very, very bad luck.

 

Are you absolutely sure that your VarioCam component's (solenoids, actuators, etc.) were installed correctly?  That system runs off oil pressure, so it could be the source of your issue.....

[AWDGuy]

I didnt remove the one that sits at the end of the heads.  Just removed the gasket and pulled the valve cover.  The 'middle' one was pulled, it has a spring at the end that was re installed correctly.  Theres also a small "C" indent so you dont install them incorrectly.

 

But now I am second guessing myself.  I'll pull them and check since the exhaust is off.

[DBJoe996]

How about pulling the scavenger pump on Bank 2 and checking it?  Seems like if the e-clip got stuck in there, the scavenger pump might be messed up?  Simply a thought.....

[AWDGuy]

6 hours ago, AWDGuy said:

 

I removed the scavenger pump on Bank 2 as I could see oil sweating from it.  I took it apart and saw a perfect indentation of a eclip in the gear.  My wife turned the motor manually for me until i could see the master link and sure enough, it was missing an eclip. 

 

[AWDGuy]

Scavenger pumps are even more simple than the oil pump. I dont think that would be my cause of 0 oil pressure.  All these things do is return the oil to the sump.

[AWDGuy]

And just reading further....the actuators and solenoids wouldnt cause 0 oil pressure.  Those are fed with oil and dont dictate oil pressure.  If I'm wrong in that thinking....please let me know.  I'm frustrated and pulling out parts for nothing just aggravated that....

[JFP in PA]

4 minutes ago, AWDGuy said:

And just reading further....the actuators and solenoids wouldnt cause 0 oil pressure.  Those are fed with oil and dont dictate oil pressure.  If I'm wrong in that thinking....please let me know.  I'm frustrated and pulling out parts for nothing just aggravated that....

 

Anything that is "fed with oil" can be a leak point causing your loss of pressure.  Think about it for a moment, particularly if they were one of the components recently touched.

[AWDGuy]

I get that.  Totally do.  But 0 pressure?

[JFP in PA]

2 minutes ago, AWDGuy said:

I get that.  Totally do.  But 0 pressure?

 

Again, how low the pressure is proportional to how big is the leak.  A small mistake can create a relatively large leak.  The solenoid plunger installed wrong is a perfect example; goes together fine, but reroutes the oil pathway.

[AWDGuy]

Ok, still skeptical on how this would cause 0 oil pressure but I'm pretty desperate at this point and willing to try anything.  The guage doesnt even budge.  That has to be one massive leak then.

Edited October 26, 2018 by AWDGuy