Porsche Turbo S Brake Nightmare

[romanimal]

In September of 2017 I purchased a 2006 Cayenne Turbo S from Vertucci in Wallingford, CT  Beautiful shape, only problem was a brake vibration.  Dealer said that this was probably because the car had been sitting, rotors had rust on them and it would go away in time.  By March 2018, the vibrations from the front right side had increased to the point where car was undriveable.  Contacted Vertucci and they advised me to purchase rotors and they would instal free of charge,  Purchased new rotors/pads (front & Back $2300) and had them shipped from Gaudin Porsche.  Vertucci installed free of Charge.  

 

Car was fine for two months.  In July 2018 Vibrations came back.  Gaudin sent me new rotors, no charge.  Vertucci installed, No charge.

 

Car was fine for a month and then vibrations occured again.  Contacted Gaudin, they said I needed to bring to a Porsche dealer to inspect the rotors and suspension to see what was causing rotors to Warp.  I brought the car to Dan Jacobs, the local Porsche specialist first to get their opinion in to ensure that it was in fact a rotor problem and to make sure that nothing else would be found to negate my warrantee.  They found that I needed an upper right control arm and front wheel bearings.  Cost of the inspection was $170

 

When I called Vertucci to get this work done they were busy, so I brought it to Rabe Motorsports to replace the Wheel Bearings and Contol Arm at a cost of $1880. They also checked the Hubs, which seemed OK to him other than some type of black residue they found on the right Hub, which they cleaned for me.  

 

I bring the car to the local Porsche Dealer for an inspection at a cost of $170.  Mind you I have now spent $4,520 on brakes which still have a pulsation to the point the car is undriveable.  I get the report from Porsche, and it says that my Front Hubs are out of round as well as my rotors.  Concluded rotors wont be covered because they are out of round because of bad hubs.

 

Repair estimate $5,000.  

 

Anyone have any advice???  Car is undriveable and unsellable as it stands.  

 

Anyone ever run into something like this?  

 

Edited October 6, 2018 by romanimal

[wizard]

Commiserations.

 

Unfortunately, as the vehicle has subsequently been worked upon by others, the chance of satisfactory recourse against Vertucci now is slim I suspect.

 

There's not much advice that can be given other than to suggest perhaps approaching Vertucci to negotiate for them to do the remedial work at a 'fair and reasonable' price.

Edited October 6, 2018 by wizard

[JFP in PA]

Welcome to RennTech. 

 

This is what happens when someone looks at a problem, immediately comes to a conclusion and proceeds without actually doing any diagnostics.

 

From the beginning, the rotors should have been checked with a dial indicator for run out and trueness.  If the hubs were bad, the discs would have run true, pointing the tech elsewhere. The front hubs should have also been checked at the same time, just to make sure they were not contributing to the problem.  Obviously, this was not done as build up on the hubs is often a give away that something is wrong with them.  Everyone seems to have overlooked the obvious on their way to the expedient. 

 

While it is not going to help your wallet, get the car looked at and fixed by someone that knows what they are doing.  This car should be an absolute blast to drive, and once corrected, you will quickly forget about the cost getting to that point.  Good luck.

 

[romanimal]

2 hours ago, JFP in PA said:

Welcome to RennTech. 

 

This is what happens when someone looks at a problem, immediately comes to a conclusion and proceeds without actually doing any diagnostics.

 

From the beginning, the rotors should have been checked with a dial indicator for run out and trueness.  If the hubs were bad, the discs would have run true, pointing the tech elsewhere. The front hubs should have also been checked at the same time, just to make sure they were not contributing to the problem.  Obviously, this was not done as build up on the hubs is often a give away that something is wrong with them.  Everyone seems to have overlooked the obvious on their way to the expedient. 

 

While it is not going to help your wallet, get the car looked at and fixed by someone that knows what they are doing.  This car should be an absolute blast to drive, and once corrected, you will quickly forget about the cost getting to that point.  Good luck.

 

Thank you.  I have the car at Vertucci now and they are figuring it out.  I'm Confused about a few things though.  

 

1) If good rotors were installed on bad hubs, wouldn't they have pulsated immediately rather than working great for two months and slowly deteriorating?

2) Will the dial indicator used on the rotors give a true indication even if the hub is out of round or would the underling hub warping flow through to the rotor measurement using the spinning tool?  Perhaps checking the thickness at various points with a gauge be more accurate in this case?

3) Aren't there some tension adjustments on the hub that can be adjusted?

 

I'm just worried about spending another 4-5K and having the same thing happen again in a few months.  Dan Jacobs is the recommended Porsche specialist in CT and they did not mention hubs as a problem.  I don't trust the dealer either as they once told me I needed a new ignition switch because I put the wrong key in the car and it got stuck.  I was able to remove my self with a paper clip.

 

Below pictures of the hub in question  after they were cleaned by Rabe

 

Edited October 6, 2018 by romanimal
photos added

[romanimal]

Before cleaning

[JFP in PA]

3 hours ago, romanimal said:

Thank you.  I have the car at Vertucci now and they are figuring it out.  I'm Confused about a few things though.  

 

1) If good rotors were installed on bad hubs, wouldn't they have pulsated immediately rather than working great for two months and slowly deteriorating?

2) Will the dial indicator used on the rotors give a true indication even if the hub is out of round or would the underling hub warping flow through to the rotor measurement using the spinning tool?  Perhaps checking the thickness at various points with a gauge be more accurate in this case?

3) Aren't there some tension adjustments on the hub that can be adjusted?

 

 

(1) No.  If the hub bearing is bad, it would take a bit to cause uneven wear on the rotors.

(2) Not necessarily.  It all depends on how the rotor is rotated while in contact with the dial indicator.  If the rotation does not take up any slack in the hub bearing, the rotor could appear to run true because the hub bearing is not loaded.

(3) No. The hub bearing's are simply torqued to spec, which is quite a high value.

[romanimal]

well after replacing the wheel bearings and hubs and cutting the rotors, we were fine for 2500 miles.  Then the pulsation came back, albeit not as bad.  Calipers and tie rod ends and all the suspension checks out fine.  The saga continues...

 

[lewisweller]

Get the disc checked on the car with dti (dial test indicator), if result shows they are warped, remove discs and recheck the disc and the hubs separately. You need to identity where the issue is. 

If the hubs pass the dti test and the discs fail then this points to two issues, the discs are poor quality and susceptible to warping (bad batch or metal heat treatment process), or the caliper/pad is not functioning correctly, sticking binding, uneven pressure etc. 

On my ctt the brakes would squeal and I regularly had to strip off pads and clean and apply copper grease and also anti-squeal fluid to pad surface. I wonder if your brakes are binding and causing over heating this may explain the previous hub warping issues as well? 

Trying to think outside the box now without throwing more parts and money at it for the same reoccurrences.