Noise from engine - disappears with belt off

[Ahsai]

What Wizard said above. Perhaps you can call the dealer and ask if they can get part number 000-043-305-75, which is the 1gal coolant. I don't see why they can't order it from Porsche.

[Estremo]

13 hours ago, wizard said:

The Boxster S takes 22 litres +/- (5.8 US gallons) to fill from empty. That's 11 litres of coolant. It's ill-advised to mix different coolants.

 

Once done and you have the engine running, don't forget to open the burp valve for bleeding air from the system ... and keep a close eye on engine temperature.

 

11 hours ago, Ahsai said:

What Wizard said above. Perhaps you can call the dealer and ask if they can get part number 000-043-305-75, which is the 1gal coolant. I don't see why they can't order it from Porsche.

 

On 8/8/2018 at 8:24 PM, JFP in PA said:

 

You are only going to get about 80-85% of the old mix out by simply gravity draining it, if you want to get more out you will need to do at least one or two flushes, preferably with distilled water.  As for the new water pump and thermostat, I would just install them and then do the flushes.

 

I have taken all of your advices and just flushed it with distilled water and will get the Porsche coolant next. Thank you very much!

 

When having the car running after changing the water pump it turns out that it actually was the pump making the noice so that is the answer on my original question. It feels really good to have that sorted out.

 

This does however bring up new questions. When the water pump being quiet the sound that I prior to the replacement could only hear with the belt off is now noticeable when the belt is on too. This was how it sounded with the belt off: 

 

And now the car sounds like this when it's running:

 

I also have this ticking that I don't know if it's normal or not. I think the "knocking" sound could be heard here also (maybe better than in the previous clip): 

 

Is this something to be worried about or is it normal?

Edited August 10, 2018 by Estremo

[Ahsai]

I hear some pingimg sound in the first video that sounds like a loose element inside a catalytic converter so you may want to use your stethoscope to check out both cats, the area where the engine and the transmission mate (IMS), on engine heads and then move toward the crank. Just probe anywhere (safely). Also check if all spark plugs are tight.

 

The same sound is also hidden in the second video.

 

The last video has two different sound. One very rapid ticking, which is likely from the evap regeneration valve (normal). The other rattle sound is less regular, sounds like something loose and rattling. Probe the idle pulleys, the alternator case carefully with the stethoscope.

 

You may also want to try depressing the clutch and see if the noise changes.

[Estremo]

1 hour ago, Ahsai said:

I hear some pingimg sound in the first video that sounds like a loose element inside a catalytic converter so you may want to use your stethoscope to check out both cats, the area where the engine and the transmission mate (IMS), on engine heads and then move toward the crank. Just probe anywhere (safely). Also check if all spark plugs are tight.

 

The same sound is also hidden in the second video.

 

The last video has two different sound. One very rapid ticking, which is likely from the evap regeneration valve (normal). The other rattle sound is less regular, sounds like something loose and rattling. Probe the idle pulleys, the alternator case carefully with the stethoscope.

 

You may also want to try depressing the clutch and see if the noise changes.

 

It's very hard to say with the stethoscope but maybe the sound gets louder at one of the catalytic converters. What to do if it's a loose element?

 

I have tightened all the spark plugs. Wouldn't the sound disappear with the belt off if it was the idle pulleys or alternator case? I'm actually not sure what these are but is it the three drive belt rollers? Two of the rollers make a sound when spinning them so I'm planning to change them too but they wouldn't make any sounds with the belt off, right?

 

I'm not sure if it's related or not but I also found this under the car. Normal or not?

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1olXrmLwooUE1u8ZxGOBgu85QVeUnPsMP

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lC8kvGyC8anr4-l9AX353IK8cKbNuz-G

https://drive.google.com/open?id=170L5_SsxQwPUvjbsK-QRnBlP-V7Uag1q

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18PsoRjzYPi_z4aKLPublaiUqEAraLs5S

[Ahsai]

Does your stethoscope have a long metal rod? If it's one of the cats, it should be very obvious when you touch the cat with the rod.

 

The cat will need to be replaced or repaired (if a shop can cut it open).

 

You have quite a bit of oil leak on the cover. It could be from spark plug tubes or AOS, etc.

 

Yes, the noise cannot be from the pulleys/rollers with the belt off but your last video had the belt on.

[Estremo]

Yes it has. It's electrical though and I think it's rather hard to tell differences. Maybe I should get another one, a mechanical?

 

To my ears the sound from the first video with the belt off is what is heard in the next two videos, even if it's not that loud in them. Based on that I however don't think it's something of the other spinning parts.

 

I also must say that it's incredible how people take their time to help others here. I hope I can pay that forward when there's other things I know off.

[wizard]

IMG_2768 points to what could be a leaking rear main seal (RMS). I'd thoroughly de-gunk the area and then see from where the leak originates.

Your car is presumably manual transmission?

[Loren]

I agree likely a RMS or IMS seal.

[Ahsai]

I agree also. Somehow I missed that photo before. Definitely probe that area for the noise.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Ahsai

[Estremo]

If it’ RMS or IMS seal, is it ok to drive for a while as long as I keep an eye on the oil level? I haven’t noticed any drop at the level.

 

Same thing if it’s the catalytic converter making the noice, is it ok to drive with it?

 

The season here is very short so everything you can wait with until the winter is great.

 

Edit: Yes it’s a manual.

 

Edit again: I think it’s most likely to come from the right side of the car.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Estremo

[wizard]

Unfortunately, the operative words in this case are "if it's ..."

 

Again, if it was me, I'd drop, cut open and inspect the oil filter. The cost of an oil filter and one litre of oil would be worth at least the peace of mind that the problem is not so serious as to result in bits of metal circulating in the oil.

 

Hooking up a Durametric cable and looking at actual values would provide even greater peace of mind, of course.

 

I drive a Tiptronic but I believe that (if it is an RMS leak and depending upon the severity) an RMS leak can result in an oil-saturated clutch plate. Is a clutch replacement anywhere near due on your car?

 

 

[Estremo]

On 8/11/2018 at 1:28 PM, wizard said:

Unfortunately, the operative words in this case are "if it's ..."

 

Again, if it was me, I'd drop, cut open and inspect the oil filter. The cost of an oil filter and one litre of oil would be worth at least the peace of mind that the problem is not so serious as to result in bits of metal circulating in the oil.

 

Hooking up a Durametric cable and looking at actual values would provide even greater peace of mind, of course.

 

I drive a Tiptronic but I believe that (if it is an RMS leak and depending upon the severity) an RMS leak can result in an oil-saturated clutch plate. Is a clutch replacement anywhere near due on your car?

 

 

 

This turned out to be a very good idea. Before doing anything else I probed different areas for the noise with my new mechanical stethoscope and I thought it could be heard most clearly from the right side of the engine block, like where the exhaust goes out from the block. It could also be heard at the exhaust itself and the cats, underneath the car like where the drain plug for the coolant is.

 

I than cut open the oil filter and everything looked fine. No metal pieces at all. I also installed a magnetic oil drain plug. I figured if I'll do that I might as well do an oil change too since it was over it's time to do so. The oil was black which surprised me since I thought it looked it's regular chocolate brown when I have looked at the dipstick, but apparently not. I believe it also can have been a little too much since I got out 8.5 litres which is more then I usually get when I change it.

 

After the oil change I can't here the noice anymore. It can still be heard with the belt off but much less. I don't think I had reacted at it in the first place if that was how it sounded then. Is it normal too hear some engine noice like that when running it without the belt? The same kind of sound as the first video in a previous post in which I posted three videos, but much quiter. With the belt on it can't be heard at all anymore. The car sounds just like it should to my ears.

 

What values would I be looking at when running the engine? I don't have a Durametric but I do have an Autel Mot Pro that I can view values with.

 

The clutch is fine (and the sound doesn't change when the clutch is in). Should it be changed at an service interval you mean? If not it's not near a clutch replacement as far as I can tell. The car has 87000 miles on it.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Estremo

[Estremo]

I might as well share videos on it too.

 

Without belt: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XJkt5FHdd1mfSBd7kWwWcllR0CNP0LE5

With belt: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1l3zHzYZAzqKqFOtwX6zWK1AHU2GsEEbE

Edited August 13, 2018 by Estremo

[wizard]

Hopefully all is well with your car now. It seems that fresh oil in the correct quantity works wonders :-)

 

Whenever I see the abbreviation IMS it prompts checking the oil filter for debris, and reading for any fluctuation in the camshaft deviation value on each bank with the engine hot.

 

My reference to your clutch was merely in case oil from the RMS was to come into contact with the clutch plate and if that clutch plate was newish.

 

 

 

 

[Estremo]

I’m going to update this thread since everything wasn’t fine after all. The water pump runs fine so that noise is gone.

 

The other noise is still there though. The reason for me thinking it was gone is that it almost disappears completely when the engine is hot after three minutes or so. After that it can be heard when the belt is off. I also think it could have become a little bit quiter after the oil change, at least when it’s hot. You can here it a little bit more at around 1400 rpm.

 

I left it to my Porsche Center and after putting down a couple of hours they still haven’t traced the sound and thought that maybe they won’t even if they keep going. Now I don’t know if I should just get the car and keep running it to see if the noise will change in time so it will get easier to trace it or tell them to keep looking. They hadn’t heard a car sounding like that before so they placed a ticket to Porsche Germany to see if they could get som help.

 

It sounded like their feeling was that it isn’t anything that bad and that I should just keep driving it but since they don’t know what it is they can’t be sure of course and don’t want to say to much.

 

Has anyone heard a Boxster sounding like this before or have a clue of what it can be? I’m really out of ideas and don’t know if I dare to keep on driving it, but leaving it to the mechanics didn’t help either.

 

In the video the engine is cold and it sounds a lot more then in real life since I’ve but the mic to the crank shaft.

 

All help is greatly appreciated.

 

 

[wizard]

"You can here it a little bit more at around 1400 rpm." 

 

Something to do with Variocam/timing chain tensioner?  Alternatively, piston slap?

[Estremo]

21 hours ago, wizard said:

"You can here it a little bit more at around 1400 rpm." 

 

Something to do with Variocam/timing chain tensioner?  Alternatively, piston slap?

This gave me a couple of new things to research, great! I will talk to the mechanic about it too.

 

What I really haven’t found an answer to is if it would quite down/almost disappear when hot if it was the variocam or timing chain tensioner?

 

For the piston slap I understand that this is the case. Also I have listened to a couple of video clips of 996 with piston slap now and I must say that the sound is rather familiar to how mine sounds, unfortunately...

 

Have I understood it right that you could remove the coils and insert an inspection camera and see if it looks like a piston slap problem?

[wizard]

I'm not a mechanic and am merely throwing out some ideas that come to mind.

 

The Variocam thought relates to you mentioning it becoming more noisy at 1400 rpm; the approximate revs at which Variocam activates.

 

I understand that timing chain tensioners have undergone several modifications since those fitted to the earlier Boxsters. You might want to look further into why.

 

It's possible that the sound that you have recorded is too 'metallic' for piston slap, although expansion could account for the reduction in the noise after the engine has warmed up.

 

A borescope through the spark plug holes can be used to check for cylinder scoring. I'm not sure what is done if piston slap is suspected.

 

Just out of interest, what weight of oil did you use for the oil change?

[Estremo]

It can be heard at lower rpm’s too but a little bit clearer at 1400 rpm.

 

I used 10W40. I read a little bit about different weights and peoples opinions of changing it but ending up going for that. Maybe I should have tried something else?

[wizard]

I'd be inclined to stick with Porsche approved oils. The only list that I have dates back to 2003 when I originally bought my car. The oils listed at that time were either 0W-40 or 5W-40. I use the 5W-40.

[Estremo]

They have now run the variocam manually and it seems to be ok. They have also checked the right cylinder bank and couldn’t see any scratches. In cylinder four and six they however saw some traces of oil. What could this mean?

[joe hurst]

that does sound very like a clutch release bearing to me...but if it doesn't chnage with actuaton of the pedal then it's not that.

 

other than that, try engine flush, fresh oil, Italian tune up with half a tank of premium and a bottle of injector cleaner.

 

thats worked for me before with Alfa TS engines, which admittedly are very diffferent to boxer engines, however i remain of the opinion that cars that are designed to be driven hard benefit from it , and the only cars I have bought that have given me real issues were garage queens that were pootled around in to the supermarket and back.

 

best of luck with it.

Edited September 29, 2018 by joe hurst