Radiator flush

[1999Porsche911]

What quantity of antifreeze is needed to do a complete vacuum flush? Can I just use the 50/50 mix for the entire refill process or do I need distilled water as well?

It takes 6 gallons. Just go to the auto store and buy 6 gallons of PEAK EXTENDED antifreeze 50/50 mix.

Edited July 19, 2007 by 1999Porsche911

[flyingpenguin]

The proper way requires alot work removing the panels under the front of the car, removing hoses etc. Here is what I do which works fine.

There is a small plug on the back bottom of the engine (coolant plug)that can be removed with an allen wrench. Removing this screw will allow just slightly more than 2 gallons of coolant to be drained from the engine.

Procedure ( This seems very complex and time consuming, but in reality it is not. Total time is about 1 hour)

1. Remove the coolant tank cap and remove the coolant screw and allow the 2 gallons to drain from the engine. Reinstall coolant screw. Don't burn yourself. Place the bleeder valve wire in the vertical position which will open the bleeders. The valve is located next to the filler cap and will allow air to purge from the system. Fill the tank with clean warm water. Start the car and let it get to full operating temperature. Turn the heat on full to allow for full circulation of coolant. When the car gets to operating temp, let the coolant circulate for a few minutes. (tank cap on).

2. Turn off the car and repeat #1 three more times.

YOU COOLING SYSTEM IS NOW ABOUT 90% PURE WATER or about 1/2 gallon of antifreeze in 6 gallons of water. You can further reduce the percentage of antifreeze if you want by repeating #1 again, but it is overkill.

3. Repeat number 1 but this time, fill the tank with a 50/50 mix of water and coolant. You should be able to add 2 gallons to the tank. Let the coolant circulate and now you have 1.6 gallons on antifreeze in the cooling system out of a total of 6 gallons. Drain the system one more time which will remove 1/2 gallon of antifreeze. (2 gallons of mixture). Then fill the tank with 2 gallons of straight antifreeze and you are at a 50/50 mixture. Put the cap on the tank and let the engine get to operating temp, shut off and return the purge valve to closed position.

Check the tank level after driving the car and add a 50/50 mixture as necessary. Since you removed virtually all antifreeze from the system, you can use any major brand and type of coolant you choose. I use Peak.

Don't scald yourself.

You should change you coolant every 2 -3 years.

No worry about leaky hoses, broken clamps, etc.

Hi there,

Apart from whether this method described here is ideal or not, I have another problem with it. It generates unnecessary waste. Whether as a 50/50 antifreeze (mostly ethylene glycol = toxic, see :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol#Toxicity) or as a watered down version, you still cannot flush it through your toilet, and it will need to get disposed of properly no matter what.

Let's do the math:

- Assuming you are able to evacuate the entire cooling system by removing under panels, hoses etc. you will end up with approx. 6 gal. of waste.

- In the procedure above I count a total of 6 times removing 2 gal. = 12 gal of waste (albeit more diluted).

I just ordered the UView Airlift II for $72 delivered from Amazon.com and will give it a try this weekend.

Loren: Having mixed orginal Porsche coolant with Prestone premix (ooh ignorant me), would it make sense to use a product like Prestone Super Radiator Cleaner, high in chelating agents, before refilling with Dex-cool?

Joost

[Loren]

The proper way requires alot work removing the panels under the front of the car, removing hoses etc. Here is what I do which works fine.

There is a small plug on the back bottom of the engine (coolant plug)that can be removed with an allen wrench. Removing this screw will allow just slightly more than 2 gallons of coolant to be drained from the engine.

Procedure ( This seems very complex and time consuming, but in reality it is not. Total time is about 1 hour)

1. Remove the coolant tank cap and remove the coolant screw and allow the 2 gallons to drain from the engine. Reinstall coolant screw. Don't burn yourself. Place the bleeder valve wire in the vertical position which will open the bleeders. The valve is located next to the filler cap and will allow air to purge from the system. Fill the tank with clean warm water. Start the car and let it get to full operating temperature. Turn the heat on full to allow for full circulation of coolant. When the car gets to operating temp, let the coolant circulate for a few minutes. (tank cap on).

2. Turn off the car and repeat #1 three more times.

YOU COOLING SYSTEM IS NOW ABOUT 90% PURE WATER or about 1/2 gallon of antifreeze in 6 gallons of water. You can further reduce the percentage of antifreeze if you want by repeating #1 again, but it is overkill.

3. Repeat number 1 but this time, fill the tank with a 50/50 mix of water and coolant. You should be able to add 2 gallons to the tank. Let the coolant circulate and now you have 1.6 gallons on antifreeze in the cooling system out of a total of 6 gallons. Drain the system one more time which will remove 1/2 gallon of antifreeze. (2 gallons of mixture). Then fill the tank with 2 gallons of straight antifreeze and you are at a 50/50 mixture. Put the cap on the tank and let the engine get to operating temp, shut off and return the purge valve to closed position.

Check the tank level after driving the car and add a 50/50 mixture as necessary. Since you removed virtually all antifreeze from the system, you can use any major brand and type of coolant you choose. I use Peak.

Don't scald yourself.

You should change you coolant every 2 -3 years.

No worry about leaky hoses, broken clamps, etc.

Hi there,

Apart from whether this method described here is ideal or not, I have another problem with it. It generates unnecessary waste. Whether as a 50/50 antifreeze (mostly ethylene glycol = toxic, see :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol#Toxicity) or as a watered down version, you still cannot flush it through your toilet, and it will need to get disposed of properly no matter what.

Let's do the math:

- Assuming you are able to evacuate the entire cooling system by removing under panels, hoses etc. you will end up with approx. 6 gal. of waste.

- In the procedure above I count a total of 6 times removing 2 gal. = 12 gal of waste (albeit more diluted).

I just ordered the UView Airlift II for $72 delivered from Amazon.com and will give it a try this weekend.

Loren: Having mixed orginal Porsche coolant with Prestone premix (ooh ignorant me), would it make sense to use a product like Prestone Super Radiator Cleaner, high in chelating agents, before refilling with Dex-cool?

Joost

I would just flush and drain with water a couple of times.

Vacuum fill is still the best method.

[flyingpenguin]

Loren,

Any specific hoses that need to be removed for a complete drain?

Thanks, Joost

[Loren]

Loren,

Any specific hoses that need to be removed for a complete drain?

Thanks, Joost

Yes, remove the engine drain plug and the large radiator supply and return hoses on the engine.

[my996]

I thought I would post my experience since it has been a while since I tried the methods suggested. I started with the drain and refill process of letting out some, and filling and repeating. See this post for details. After that, my 996 ran a little hot but I thought the culprit was a new bumper I had installed around the same time. Thanks to Loren, I was able to narrow down the problem to possible air in the lines. So, after installing a new overflow tank, when the old one had cracked, I took the 996 to a shop that had a vacuum apparatus to refill the coolant. Problem solved. Car runs cool again and the shop only charged me the labor (about $80) to do the vacuum flush since I replaced my own coolant tank, fuel filter (because it was convinient), and hose rings. Once again, thanks for all the help this site has provided even though it takes me from one season to the next to finally getting around to doing what I wish I could do in one weekend. :) Particular thanks to Loren for all your insight.

[JeTexas]

I have a really hard time believe it's actually "lifetime" coolant. Every other car manufacturer on earth recommends a flush and fresh coolant every 2 - 3 years. Even in a perfectly sealed environment the heating and cooling of the fluid is going to break it down over time. Also, if there were any impurities in it at all, they're going to eventually settle out and create shale deposits throughout all the metal passages.

I anyone does perform an actual flush with one of the detergent products, it's generally good practice to change your thermostat afterwards to avoid it becoming clogged/obstructed by any particles you may have knocked loose.

[kunkstyle]

Related question to the topic - if I want to bring my freezing protection to a colder temp (it's at -35 now, I'd like at least -40), is there an easy way to do it? My coolant is at the max line now, so adding becomes difficult without draining or syphoning some out, and I don't want to get any air trapped in the system.

[Loren]

Related question to the topic - if I want to bring my freezing protection to a colder temp (it's at -35 now, I'd like at least -40), is there an easy way to do it? My coolant is at the max line now, so adding becomes difficult without draining or syphoning some out, and I don't want to get any air trapped in the system.

Just drain out some of the coolant (say 1 gallon) and then add in undiluted coolant. Drive with the bleeder valve open for a couple of days and you should be fine.

[kunkstyle]

Thanks for the help. It worked perfectly. I'll give it a temperature test tomorrow after it's had a chance to mix into the system.

[achillies]

I have read all these postings and I still am insure of something. I have the UView pump but how do I get the original fluid out of the car? If I just unhook hoses etc. it will go everywhere and that doesnt seem like a great idea. Can the suction pump pull the liquid out or am I missing something? Thanks

[RFM]

The cool water drain is located on the rear of the engine (bottom side), in the middle of the central water duct, a small bold (Allen key needed). Lift the car up on the front with a jack and place a water recipient under the drain to catch the water properly, emptying the system with vacuum doesn't work well, filling the system with vacuum in contrary works excellent.

[achillies]

Thanks I get it now.

[achillies]

I am back...I hooked up the UView Airlift to check for leaks. As it started to pull the gauge got to 15psi and the then there was a release and fluid can out of the tube. I clamped the overflow hose and the same thing occurred. Are there other hose to clamp to see if there are leaks? Also when I use it to replace the fluid are there hoses that need to be clamped off? Sorry I am so dense but this one is getting to me. THanks for all responses.

[flyingpenguin]

As vizcarra44 mentions the AirLift II vacuum pump (connects to shop air) works like a charm!

Here's a place online that sells it: http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/uv550500.html

Joost

PS: Anyone in the Woodlands / Houston area that needs a hand with this, give me a shout.

[win911]

I noticed that they have 2 different model Uview... model number 550500 and 550000. Do they work the same? Is one better than the other? I like the fact that the 550000 comes in a molded case... but is the 550500 and updated version, therefore better? decisions decisions??? What do you guys recommend?

Thanks

[1schoir]

I noticed that they have 2 different model Uview... model number 550500 and 550000. Do they work the same? Is one better than the other? I like the fact that the 550000 comes in a molded case... but is the 550500 and updated version, therefore better? decisions decisions??? What do you guys recommend?

Thanks

The 550000 is made of solid brass parts, with very high quality fittings. That's the one I used and it is one terrific tool. You can't go wrong with that one.

Regards, Maurice.

[win911]

Thanks Maurice 550000 it is...

[flyingpenguin]

I noticed that they have 2 different model Uview... model number 550500 and 550000. Do they work the same? Is one better than the other? I like the fact that the 550000 comes in a molded case... but is the 550500 and updated version, therefore better? decisions decisions??? What do you guys recommend?

Thanks

The 550000 is made of solid brass parts, with very high quality fittings. That's the one I used and it is one terrific tool. You can't go wrong with that one.

Regards, Maurice.

But for occasional use in a DIY setting the one with plastic bits works just as well....

Joost

[amcleod1]

Australian MY2000 996 C2 Tip.

Just recently performed a full drain, flush and refill to change from green coolant of unknown origin back to long-life Porsche antifreeze and thought I'd share my learning’s and experience.

After researching I first was able to determine that the Porsche brand coolant is actually ELF Glacelf Supra Anti-Freeze. Links to sites that support this conclusion are listed at bottom of this post.

Biggest problem I had was getting all the coolant out. According to the specs there is approx 22.5 litres (~6 US gallons) of coolant in the system. I followed the instructions in the workshop manual (Section 19 38 17 – drain plug and vent line) and was only able to drain about 11 litres (2.9 US gallons).

So I removed several other coolant hoses from the engine and underside (per other posts on Renntech) but could not drain the other 11 Litres. So I resorted to the method described by 1999Porsche911 above (http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?s...ost&p=25986) to flush and dilute down to clear water. Tip - I managed to get 14 litres (~3.7 US Gallons) out by connecting an 8 foot section of garden hose to the vent pipe and blowing into it. This air blowing forced another 3 litres (0.8 US Gallon) out the drain plug.

Once drained, I then (1) flushed clean water through the reservoir; (2) disconnected the coolant supply line to heater core and flushed clean water through the heater core, supply and return lines; and (3) disconnected the coolant supply line to the tiptronic AFT cooler and flushed clean water through the AFT cooler, supply and return lines. (1), (2) and (3) where done until clear water exited from the drain plug.

I repeated the above twice so a little less waste to dispose of. Each time I refilled the system with clean tap water and bled air from the cooling system as described in the workshop manual (Section 19 38 17).

On the 3rd drain I got 14 litres (~3.7 US Gallons) of practically clear water out (slightest evidence of green colour). I did not flush the heater core or AFT cooler. I was now ready to refill with the ELF coolant but there was remained 7.5 litres (~2 US gallons) of clean water in the system (somewhere ? – can anyone tell me where for next time ?).

To get a final 50:50 mix of antifreeze to water, I prepared a 14 litre (3.7 gallon) solution using 10 litres (2.6 gallon) of antifreeze and 4 litres (1.1 gallons) of distilled water. Refilled and bled air again per workshop manual. Over the next few days I topped up a further ~2 litres (0.53 gallon) of 50:50 mix of antifreeze and distilled water. By calculation, I should now have 11 litres (2.9 gallon) of antifreeze in 22.5 litres (~6 gallon) of coolant.

Links for ELF Glacelf Supra Anti-Freeze

Data Sheet: http://www.lubadmin.com/upload/produit/Fic.../lang_1/127.pdf

http://www.bombaydigital.com/arenared/1998/10/29/1

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=182

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=15103

For those in Australia you can source ELF Glacelf Supra Anti-Freeze through www.elfoil.com.au. Price was A$5.00/litre (as at Oct/2009). Make sure it’s the pink organic product. I bought 15 x 1litre containers.

[1schoir]

Australian MY2000 996 C2 Tip.

Just recently performed a full drain, flush and refill to change from green coolant of unknown origin back to long-life Porsche antifreeze and thought I'd share my learning’s and experience.

After researching I first was able to determine that the Porsche brand coolant is actually ELF Glacelf Supra Anti-Freeze. Links to sites that support this conclusion are listed at bottom of this post.

Biggest problem I had was getting all the coolant out. According to the specs there is approx 22.5 litres (~6 US gallons) of coolant in the system. I followed the instructions in the workshop manual (Section 19 38 17 – drain plug and vent line) and was only able to drain about 11 litres (2.9 US gallons).

So I removed several other coolant hoses from the engine and underside (per other posts on Renntech) but could not drain the other 11 Litres. So I resorted to the method described by 1999Porsche911 above (http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?s...ost&p=25986) to flush and dilute down to clear water. Tip - I managed to get 14 litres (~3.7 US Gallons) out by connecting an 8 foot section of garden hose to the vent pipe and blowing into it. This air blowing forced another 3 litres (0.8 US Gallon) out the drain plug.

Once drained, I then (1) flushed clean water through the reservoir; (2) disconnected the coolant supply line to heater core and flushed clean water through the heater core, supply and return lines; and (3) disconnected the coolant supply line to the tiptronic AFT cooler and flushed clean water through the AFT cooler, supply and return lines. (1), (2) and (3) where done until clear water exited from the drain plug.

I repeated the above twice so a little less waste to dispose of. Each time I refilled the system with clean tap water and bled air from the cooling system as described in the workshop manual (Section 19 38 17).

On the 3rd drain I got 14 litres (~3.7 US Gallons) of practically clear water out (slightest evidence of green colour). I did not flush the heater core or AFT cooler. I was now ready to refill with the ELF coolant but there was remained 7.5 litres (~2 US gallons) of clean water in the system (somewhere ? – can anyone tell me where for next time ?).

To get a final 50:50 mix of antifreeze to water, I prepared a 14 litre (3.7 gallon) solution using 10 litres (2.6 gallon) of antifreeze and 4 litres (1.1 gallons) of distilled water. Refilled and bled air again per workshop manual. Over the next few days I topped up a further ~2 litres (0.53 gallon) of 50:50 mix of antifreeze and distilled water. By calculation, I should now have 11 litres (2.9 gallon) of antifreeze in 22.5 litres (~6 gallon) of coolant.

Links for ELF Glacelf Supra Anti-Freeze

Data Sheet: http://www.lubadmin.com/upload/produit/Fic.../lang_1/127.pdf

http://www.bombaydigital.com/arenared/1998/10/29/1

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=182

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=15103

For those in Australia you can source ELF Glacelf Supra Anti-Freeze through www.elfoil.com.au. Price was A$5.00/litre (as at Oct/2009). Make sure it’s the pink organic product. I bought 15 x 1litre containers.

Thanks for the documentary evidence of what that "Secret" Porsche Coolant acutally is. I'm convinced that it is indeed Elf, based on what you have set out here. It makes perfect sense as well, because we all know that Porsche does not manufacture coolant.

Porsche will, of course, go to great lenghts to protect this information as it is another one of their "profit centers".

Regards, Maurice.

[na011]

What hose to you hook the "vacuum" to ?

[dynemd]

What hose to you hook the "vacuum" to ?

You place the Uview vacuum tool onto the reservoir opening (where the cap was before you removed it).

Here's another option besides the Uview for about the same price Here

(if you can't acquire the Uview)

[hdosanjh]

Hi guys new to this site and I am going to do a coolant change on my 996. Well before I had even driven the car my dad banged it and the radiator started leaking!! Repairing myself, I have installed a new rad and over the weekend will bleed remaining fluid and then try and refill.

The advise here is great will let you know how it goes....

[100plus]

hi guys,

Just afew days ago the hose that leads out from the water pump burst and now it is in the workshop waiting for new hoses to arrive. The thing is, I m afraid my workshop wont do as you guys stated. I got a feeling he would just fill the system up and call it a day. Would that cause any problems? What should i do ?

Cheers