Buying Question

[HalM]

I hope this is the right forum.  If not, would the moderators please delete.

 

I am looking at rejoining the water cooled world again.  For a number of reasons I have settled on a Boxster S.  As a long time Porsche owner (40+ years) during my search I have been very surprised by the not only the lack of maintenance many of these cars are receiving but the nonchalance about it by the owners.

 

There is one car I have come across (2005) that checks almost all the boxes for me except one.  The current owner has no maintenance records, period.  He has owned the car for 6 years and 19,000 miles.  He has only done 3 oil and filter changes during that time.

 

Am I being overly sensitive about the frequency of change or is this really a problem waiting to happen?

 

Thanks!

 

 

[JFP in PA]

52 minutes ago, HalM said:

I hope this is the right forum.  If not, would the moderators please delete.

 

I am looking at rejoining the water cooled world again.  For a number of reasons I have settled on a Boxster S.  As a long time Porsche owner (40+ years) during my search I have been very surprised by the not only the lack of maintenance many of these cars are receiving but the nonchalance about it by the owners.

 

There is one car I have come across (2005) that checks almost all the boxes for me except one.  The current owner has no maintenance records, period.  He has owned the car for 6 years and 19,000 miles.  He has only done 3 oil and filter changes during that time.

 

Am I being overly sensitive about the frequency of change or is this really a problem waiting to happen?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

Run, do not walk away from that car.  We see this all the time: Deferred maintenance.  If he did not care to maintain the car, what else did he ignore.........................

[ttocs]

A few things come to mind on this, firstly, a Porsche dealer Pre Purchase Inspection is a really good idea. If nothing else, the PPI will highlight maintenance needed and point to issues that need further inspection.

 

Second, it's a 2005 which is sort of a hybrid year for which style IMS might be installed. The earlier version is more easily replaced.

 

Third, the cars being offered for sale at the Porsche dealers, at least the ones near me, have a better history. They keep the best ones to sell and auction off the rest. Case in point, there is a 2004 Boxster S with 22k miles and has complete maintenance history at a dealer near me, but it comes with a higher price because of this.

 

Bottom line, I too am shocked that quite a few cars for sale are not maintained better. Maybe there should be a home inspection performed, similar to what is done when adopting a dog or a cat, to verify the qualifications of the prospective owner.

[HalM]

Thanks to both of you for a cold dose of reality.  I knew I should not get excited about the car, but it ticked so many boxes for me.

 

Here is a real, unaltered text conversation I had last week with a different car owner.  All too common and disappointing.

 

Me:  Hello.  I am looking at your 996 on Autotrader.  Is it still available?

Seller:  I don’t have a 996.

Me:  911?

Seller: Yes.

Me:  Ok, thanks.  996 is the model designation for 911’s made between 1999-2004.

Me:  Has the IMS been changed.

Seller:  No

Me:  How long have you owned the car and do you have service records?

Seller:  I have owned the car for 6 years.  It required tune up at 60,000 miles.  That is all it has needed since I owned it.  I don’t have those records but I can get them.

Me:  Oil and filter done at least once per year?

Seller:  Probably did it 3 times.  Didn’t put a lot of miles on it.  Only drove it a few months per year.

Me:  Thanks for your time and candor.  Nice looking car.  You should find a new home for it quickly.

-End of conversation-

 

[JFP in PA]

24 minutes ago, HalM said:

Thanks to both of you for a cold dose of reality.  I knew I should not get excited about the car, but it ticked so many boxes for me.

 

Here is a real, unaltered text conversation I had last week with a different car owner.  All too common and disappointing.

 

Me:  Hello.  I am looking at your 996 on Autotrader.  Is it still available?

 

Seller:  I don’t have a 996.

 

Me:  911?

 

Seller: Yes.

 

Me:  Ok, thanks.  996 is the model designation for 911’s made between 1999-2004.

 

Me:  Has the IMS been changed.

 

Seller:  No

 

Me:  How long have you owned the car and do you have service records?

 

Seller:  I have owned the car for 6 years.  It required tune up at 60,000 miles.  That is all it has needed since I owned it.  I don’t have those records but I can get them.

 

Me:  Oil and filter done at least once per year?

 

Seller:  Probably did it 3 times.  Didn’t put a lot of miles on it.  Only drove it a few months per year.

 

Me:  Thanks for your time and candor.  Nice looking car.  You should find a new home for it quickly.

 

-End of conversation-

 

 

 

Quite often, the hardest part of buying a car is not getting emotionally attached to it, but stepping back and looking at it in the hard light of reality.

 

I'm sure there is another one out there that has been lovingly cared for and just waiting for you to find it.

[ttocs]

I agree with JFP.

 

Last year, a close friend wanted to go from his 2003 Boxster to a 911 Cab. We looked at a few that "seemed" really good including price, but . . . he "felt" uncomfortable because of the lack of history, and in one case - three different brand of tires mounted on the car!! Then, low a behold, there came the "perfect" one at a Porsche dealer. A 2009 Carrera S Cab. $10k more than he was originally looking to spend, but it didn't need any repair or maintenance, so the offset of the budget of that would've gone to making the car right went to total peace of mind. He drives the hell out of it and has no worries!

[JFP in PA]

You have to stay objective; if something looks questionable, it probably is and is not the only thing that is. 

[maytag]

 
Quite often, the hardest part of buying a car is not getting emotionally attached to it, but stepping back and looking at it in the hard light of reality.
 
I'm sure there is another one out there that has been lovingly cared for and just waiting for you to find it.

This is tough for me. I am always emotional about a car purchase.... if I'm not, then I'm probably gonna look at something else.
But I've had to learn to temper that with a time out, haha. I find that if I walk away for 2 days... the emotion doesn't blind me anymore and I can be more objective. Of course, I've missed - out on some cars I really wanted that way.... But in the end, it has saved my bacon many times.

To the original post: I do a TON of maintenance.... But I almost never keep records. It's never occurred to me to save receipts, or keep a folder. What items do y'all keep? Even down to the basic oil change? Marker light replacement? Where's the line?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[ttocs]

7 minutes ago, maytag said:

What items do y'all keep? Even down to the basic oil change? Marker light replacement? Where's the line?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 

 

How much or how little is up to the individual. I have kept receipts for all of my cars and motorcycles, but most have had service by dealers and have accessible records so I've been lazy about organizing the paperwork per vehicle. The glove box gets pretty full of receipts by the time the car gets traded. I've only had a few vehicles worthy of better record keeping and to that end I've gotten an app for auto maintenance, in addition to keeping receipts, and it's working out very well. The app allows for the most inane items to be logged, if the user is wanting to do that, including gas and mileage logging which I use for business.

[Silver_TT]

11 hours ago, maytag said:

To the original post: I do a TON of maintenance.... But I almost never keep records. It's never occurred to me to save receipts, or keep a folder. What items do y'all keep? Even down to the basic oil change? Marker light replacement? Where's the line?

 

Not a shot at you, you're clearly in the majority, but I'm always surprised at the lack of record keeping when I have been in the market to purchase a car.  I'm fussy and risk-averse but I will not buy a car with missing or incomplete records.  Period.  As far as where to draw the line, I keep records and receipts for everything including and especially oil changes.  I put them all in a manila envelope which I put away with all my other fun records to keep like taxes.  You can scan them into your computer or whatever if you prefer.  You can't always depend on the dealer or others to keep records for you.  For privacy concerns, most dealers won't give out records on a vehicle from past owners.  Your best bet is to track it yourself and it's really little to no incremental work.

 

I bought my wife an Audi Q5 last summer and searched for 6 months trying to find a clean car with records.  This is in the NYC area, which I would consider a very large market.  Couldn't find one, almost no one keeps records these days.  I really wanted to buy from a private party.  After about 6 months I ended up saying to Hell with it and just bought a certified Audi.  Too many shysters out there these days -- anything you can do to mitigate a potential buyer's risk and help them understand the full history of your car will only fetch you more money when you go to sell.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Silver_TT

[HalM]

2 minutes ago, Silver_TT said:

 

. . .  Too many shysters out there these days -- 

Could not agree more.  My first step in vetting a car is the owner.  You are buying the owner, not the car.

[maytag]

2 hours ago, Silver_TT said:

 

Not a shot at you, .....

...... anything you can do to mitigate a potential buyer's risk and help them understand the full history of your car will only fetch you more money when you go to sell.

 

No offense taken!  It's interesting that the only time I've ever asked for (and expected) records was on Ferraris, and that has ONLY been because I know what those records mean to my ultimate resale value on that car.   

And so I'm asking myself "WHY" on that car, is it so important, but not on any other car (to me)? 

I've come to the conclusion that it's because those are cars which I intend to, someday, sell.  They're a larger investment than my other cars, and so they require more attention to the protection of that investment.   

Otherwise, my cars have been about driving.  I haven't looked at them as an investment; they're simply enjoyment.  And I figure I can tell more about a car and how it's been taken care of by looking it over carefully (and comparing what I see to what the seller is saying) than I could from service records.  Of course: I'm fooling myself.... there's no way that's true.... but it's the "gut" approach I've always taken.  

 

In short: you're helping me to see another way.... I'm not sure I'm organized to do something other than throw a receipt away.... but maybe I can try to be.  ?  But I may find I'll start to ask for service records, and see what the difference is in the cars that I find.....