996 911 Tiptronic Water dumped onto floor & oil in water

[sjmsmart]

Hello

 

I have just bought a 996 911 3.4 tiptronic with a good service history etc, checked it over best I could and as have had 2 x 986 boxtsers and I thought I had checked enough to have found a good one.

There was some slight white build up in the oil tube but hardly anything on the cap both when I first looked at the car and when I tested it today and paid, but everyone I spoke to advised that this was quite normal. There was no smoking, it did lose a little oil on the way home on a two hour drive but was running correctly with 1.5 pressure on the oil pressure gauge.

 

However when I got it home this evening I noticed a dropping of liquid onto the exhaust with a hiss/hissing. And when I looked under the car to my dismay water was literally gushing/dumping somewhere in the top back left of the engine bay. There is a large amount of coolant on the floor, there is oil in the coolant and there is oil on the outside of the water expansion tank/cap (I have not opened it as it is too hot but I can only guess that it is full of oil). This was all happening with the engine off as in water pushing its way out.

 

I am gutted, and fear the worse as in head gasket, cracked head, but some people have said on forums if there is water on the floor even with oil in it there can be other causes like oil air separator, pipes and or oil/water cooler.

 

I will try to get it to my garage early in the week, and have emailed the garage I bought it from but I would be grateful if someone could offer me some advice please.

 

Some pictures attached.

Edited September 24, 2017 by sjmsmart
Missed some information on first draft.

[PWS]

Probably a cracked reservoir, needs to be replaced. I have done 5: not uncommon failure

 

[sjmsmart]

13 minutes ago, PWS said:

Probably a cracked reservoir, needs to be replaced. I have done 5: not uncommon failure

 

 

Thank you PWS, this does sound like possible promising news, and it looked like something might be spurting from somewhere on the water reservoir, but would there also be oil in the water with such an issue? As you can see oil is all over the reservoir.

Edited September 23, 2017 by sjmsmart
Missed some information on first draft.

[Loren]

Is this car a Turbo or normally aspirated 996?

You state it is a 3.4-liter car - all 996 Turbos are 3.6 liters. Two very different engines.

[sjmsmart]

15 hours ago, Loren said:

Is this car a Turbo or normally aspirated 996?

You state it is a 3.4-liter car - all 996 Turbos are 3.6 liters. Two very different engines.

 

 

Sorry Loren bad title, its a 3.4 naturally aspirated tiptronic.

[Loren]

Moved to the correct forum - this is a normally aspirated 996.

[sjmsmart]

Just now, Loren said:

Moved to the correct forum - this is a normally aspirated 996.

Sorry, will do, new to all of this.

[Loren]

Do a search here - oil in coolant has been covered it detail many times. The news is not likely good.

[Hilux2400]

Mine's a 996 3.6L from 2003.

 

If it's any consolation to you, soon after buying mine in 2012 with a mileage of just 40K within a few weeks I had coolant coming out in the same area. It was caused by a fractured alloy return pipe. There was also coolant at the top of the reservoir, in the well, just like yours as one of the screws holding the release valve had corroded. 

 

I replaced the coolant reservoir and at the same time the air oil separator and the oil filler tube.  Also the small bore alloy return tube which I sleeved in plastic pipe to avoid the problem re-occurring.

 

Before you start pulling the thing apart you need to find the source of the leak.  When it's cooled down top up the coolant.  Get the back up on blocks and see if you have a leak and find it's source. It would help to pressurise the cooling system slightly, but don't overdo it.  

 

Are you sure that the oil in the reservoir well is from coolant?  It's not just oil that has been spilled here and mixed with overflowing coolant?   Is there water in the sump?  Could the oil in the spillage have come from coolant washing oil off the outside of the engine on its way down?

 

I attach some pics of the fractured coolant pipe, examples of moisture in the filler cap after short winter journeys, and coolant leaking from the coolant valve cap.

 

  

[wizard]

Most unfortunate.

 

My Boxster had a yellowy/orange coolant as the original fill. Are you sure that there's oil intermixed? As Hilux has suggested, pull your dipstick and oil filler cap to see if there's any emulsion. Is it correct (my eyesight) that your coolant filler cap part number ends in -04?

 

As I understand that purchase from a dealer gives you certain legal recourse, if it were me, I wouldn't use another garage until you've decided whether or not the seriousness of the problem necessitates the return of the vehicle to the seller.

[sjmsmart]

4 hours ago, Hilux2400 said:

Mine's a 996 3.6L from 2003.

 

If it's any consolation to you, soon after buying mine in 2012 with a mileage of just 40K within a few weeks I had coolant coming out in the same area. It was caused by a fractured alloy return pipe. There was also coolant at the top of the reservoir, in the well, just like yours as one of the screws holding the release valve had corroded. 

 

I replaced the coolant reservoir and at the same time the air oil separator and the oil filler tube.  Also the small bore alloy return tube which I sleeved in plastic pipe to avoid the problem re-occurring.

 

Before you start pulling the thing apart you need to find the source of the leak.  When it's cooled down top up the coolant.  Get the back up on blocks and see if you have a leak and find it's source. It would help to pressurise the cooling system slightly, but don't overdo it.  

 

Are you sure that the oil in the reservoir well is from coolant?  It's not just oil that has been spilled here and mixed with overflowing coolant?   Is there water in the sump?  Could the oil in the spillage have come from coolant washing oil off the outside of the engine on its way down?

 

I attach some pics of the fractured coolant pipe, examples of moisture in the filler cap after short winter journeys, and coolant leaking from the coolant valve cap.

 

  

 

Thanks Hilux2400

 

I have just opened the reservoir, it is thick dark brown oily gunk filled quite high.

The oil filler tube has white mayo in it.

The dipstick is clear.

Pictures below:

 

 

[sjmsmart]

3 hours ago, wizard said:

Most unfortunate.

 

My Boxster had a yellowy/orange coolant as the original fill. Are you sure that there's oil intermixed? As Hilux has suggested, pull your dipstick and oil filler cap to see if there's any emulsion. Is it correct (my eyesight) that your coolant filler cap part number ends in -04?

 

As I understand that purchase from a dealer gives you certain legal recourse, if it were me, I wouldn't use another garage until you've decided whether or not the seriousness of the problem necessitates the return of the vehicle to the seller.

 

Thanks Wizard.

I have just opened the reservoir, it is thick dark brown oily gunk filled quite high.

The oil filler tube has white mayo in it.

The dipstick is clear.

Pictures can be seen on my reply to hilux2011.

 

[sjmsmart]

While I wait to hear from the garage (I will be phoning them tomorrow), I have found some interesting info below and was hoping others on here may know if this is possible?

I have read that that when it’s the head gasket/cracked head you see white oil and froth in the water expansion tank and don’t usually see water on the floor, and you also do not end up with thick brown oil in the reservoir, my reservoir is literally 80% oil and 20% coolant.

 

Apparently there can be an issue where the oil air cooler fails, and allows pressure to force oil into the expansion tank, causing the expansion tank to blast out its water through its overflow if the overflow.  If the overflow is at the rear of the expansion tank then this would make sense as that is where the water seemed to be gushing from.

 

As I had no overheating issues and there is no bubbly white oil in the water, and no water on the dip stick could this be what this is?

[wizard]

Oil pressure is a lot higher than that within the cooling system so, yes, with the engine running, one would expect oil to end up in the coolant expansion tank. 

 

You haven't mentioned the model year, but here's something to consider - 

http://flat6innovations.com/index.php/services/intermixed-oil-and-coolant-repairs

 

Note the comment re the near bullet-proof nature of the head gasket.

 

If it were me, I would demand a full refund and put the troublesome episode down to experience! 

[Hilux2400]

"Coolant" looks pretty messy.

 

As Wizard says you need to be returning things to the point of sale and starting to put things in writing.  You might even want to have it transported back to the garage on a trailer so that you are not accused of causing further damage, having now found a coolant problem.

 

This is a bit late in the process, but when I buy from a trader I always pay a deposit of at least £100 with my credit card and the remainder by other means.  I do this to get the consumer protection for purchases over £100 and under £30K.

 

Just to let you know that for my 911/006 after a few oil changes and fewer short winter runs, I now hardly get any emulsion in the oil filler tube. 

 

  

[sjmsmart]

Thanks Wizard/Hilus2400, the garage have emailed me to say they will arrange for it to be collected this week and get it sorted.

I am also covered very well by UK consumer law should I decide to have a refund.

I paid a deposit via debit card as do not have a credit card anymore, so I do not think I have the same cover but as mentioned UK law should have me covered.

 

I also noticed oil spray around the front wheel arches inside and outside and on the wheels, so not sure if the coolant system has also been compromised with oil at the front end of the car?

 

 

 

[sjmsmart]

I have had reasonably good news, the garage have found that an o-ring has failed on the oil cooler, they are fitting new o-rings, flushing the system, and running more tests on Monday to make sure no other issues.

[sjmsmart]

Just to update you all (a bit late).  Just shy of 4 weeks from the purchase date the dealer conceded defeat with the repair and offered me a refund.  The same day after driving back from getting my refund I found a mint 2001 manual non-sunroof 996 911 from a local specialist.  Had to chop in my e46 330i m sport touring and £500. It was worth it, the car has had £10k spent on it in the last 6 years (previously owned by someone who could more than afford to look after it).  Recent works include new RMS, clutch and flywheel, new rads, condensers, back box and tail pipes, alternator, brakes, pads, tyres, amongst other things, the ims was also checked and found to be sound when RMS done.  Thanks again for all the help.