Brakes issue and PSM light came ON/OFF

[ManMN]

I was troubleshooting code P2189, undo some vacuum line to test for leaks ... this is a different issue all together.  I mentioned it because I unhooked vacuum lines.  I reconnected everything (hoses), I did not start the engine because I was still working on it.  My engine was running fine for weeks even with P2189 - not rough like some mentioned!

Two days later, In the morning, I used the car to do errands, I drove for about 10 minutes.  At the stop sign, I stepped on the brake, the car won't stop like it used to! It rolled slowly and then stopped.  It's like taking a much much longer distant to stop.  I did not see anything abnormal on the dashboard except for the CE for the P2189 code! no smell of anything.  I continued to drive the car at the normal speed (35 mile/hr) but kept a large distance from the car in front.  About 10 minutes later, the brake felt normal like nothing had happened.  I drove for another 10 minutes to reach my destination.   2 hours later, jumped in the car to drive home, the brakes felt normal.  About 2 minutes the PSM light came on,  brakes are still OK.  5 minutes later I pulled into the bank, turned off the engine for couple minutes then restarted the engine, the PSM light is OFF, the brake is normal... I drove home.

 

Now, where do I start troubleshoot the brakes and the PSM light? I don't have the Durametric tool.  Or must I have the Durametric to troubleshoot? can I rent one from someone?

 

Your help is needed. 

 

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

 

Man N

 

[JFP in PA]

One or more vacuum lines are either loose or disconnected, most likely the one that supplies vacuum to your brake booster.  I'd start there.............

[ManMN]

Oops, I spoke too soon.  I just read some more codes P2103 & P0638.  I could have swear that I reconnected any hoses or plugs that I took off!!!

[ManMN]

Now my car won't start - did I just open a can of worms by trying to fix the P2189?

[JFP in PA]

P2103 is for a high signal on the throttle actuator motor, so I rather doubt it is connected to your vacuum leak issue.

[ManMN]

I just found a cracked hose - cannot identify it (attached pic). Looks like it is going through the firewall

[lewisweller]

1 hour ago, ManMN said:

I just found a cracked hose - cannot identify it (attached pic). Looks like it is going through the firewall

Common fault. Many have fixed this with some jb weld or epoxy. This pipe is for the brake booster vacuum part of 13 to 14 I believe so now you know why your getting the codes and weird Braking issues. If you search this forum you'll find others who have diy fixed this before. 

[JFP in PA]

5 hours ago, ManMN said:

I just found a cracked hose - cannot identify it (attached pic). Looks like it is going through the firewall

 

That is the hose supplying vacuum to your power brake booster........................

[ManMN]

I believe I have mended the cracked hose (the brake pedal feels very tight when pressed) .  Now the car idle very rough I have codes 2103, 0638 and a bunch of 0300's.  What are the common vacuum hoses and electrical plugs that I might left out during this process? See attached photos.

 

 

 

[JFP in PA]

I’m sorry, but that type of patch is only good to get a vehicle home.  Replace the failed hoses or you will end up chasing your tail trying to fix this.

[ManMN]

Yeah, I will eventually replacing the hose but right now, just trying to find out why it got worse than couple of days ago (without driving the car).  I never hay any issue with the throttle actuator...how can I test without the Durametric?

[JFP in PA]

You need to check the voltage, which as I am away from the shop, I have no reference range to give you. Perhaps someone could chime in with the correct range. Voltage can be checked with a simple multimeter.

[lewisweller]

7 hours ago, ManMN said:

Yeah, I will eventually replacing the hose but right now, just trying to find out why it got worse than couple of days ago (without driving the car).  I never hay any issue with the throttle actuator...how can I test without the Durametric?

Before you go wasting any money disconnect your battery and then remove the throttle body and clean it with some solvent cleaner or pure alcohol and a soft cloth. Reinstall throttle, check plug pins are clean and not damaged and reconnect. Make sure all vacuum pipes underneath are connected and not resting near the water pump pulley which could cause rubbing and damage. 

 

Reconnect your battery, switch ignition to on but don't start engine and don't touch accelerator pedal. After 2 minutes switch off ignition. Switch ignition back on and plug in your code reader, clear all codes and then turn off ignition. 

Turn on ignition and start car, don't touch accelerator. Let it idle for 5 mins. If car feels ok go for short drive near home, after drive check codes. 

If codes for throttle are still there do a throttle body alignment with your scanner. If the scanner doesn't have the capability to do it then follow this, 

Ignition off

Ignition on

Press accelerator to the floor and hold for 30seconds 

Accelerator off and ignition off

Ignition on don't touch anything for 2 minutes 

Ignition off 

Ignition on wait 2 minute and start engine don't touch accelerator let idle for 5 mins 

Clear codes and test drive again. 

 

Check codes are gone and didn't return. 

 

It's very unlikely that by bad luck the throttle body is somehow broken by just unplugging it! 

 

Report back how it goes. 

 

[ManMN]

Lewisweller,

 

Thanks to you, all codes are cleared.  I have driven the car for 15 minutes - no codes.  However, the PSM was on after my procedure of disconnect /reconnect the battery and it remains ON.  The brakes feel fine and of course I was able to stop the car.

 

I'm going to search for PSM troubleshoot... I'll be back.

 

Thank you so much Lewisweller

 

Man N

[lewisweller]

3 hours ago, ManMN said:

Lewisweller,

 

Thanks to you, all codes are cleared.  I have driven the car for 15 minutes - no codes.  However, the PSM was on after my procedure of disconnect /reconnect the battery and it remains ON.  The brakes feel fine and of course I was able to stop the car.

 

I'm going to search for PSM troubleshoot... I'll be back.

 

Thank you so much Lewisweller

 

Man N

Psm light on probably means despite fixing the major leak in the vacuum system ( cracked pipe) you still have a small leak, most likely in the cracked pipe Fix.

 

Do this test, run engine and switch off, pump brake pedal and count the pumps until it goes hard hence the brake booster assistance is gone because the vacuum used up by the pumping.

Then hold the brake pedal down and start the engine, you will feel the pedal get softer and you are able to depress it further as vacuum is built up, approximately how far did your pedal move down when you started the engine? How many pumps did it take before pedal was hard when you switched engine off?

 

It's pretty much a guarantee that a vacuum leak is the cause of the psm light. 

Edited September 24, 2017 by lewisweller

[ManMN]

There is no CE at this time. I'm using iCarsoft i960 OBDII scanner.  There is a menu called "Diagnostic" (different from the usual Actron reader), there is a submenu called DTCs.  I select to read DTCs codes and P0102 came up.  I select to clear the code.  Restart the engine, no more PSM light.  Drove around the block for  10 minutes - everything feels/looks normal.

 

Tomorrow, Monday, the commute will be 45 minute/30 miles.  I'll give updates.

 

 

[lewisweller]

37 minutes ago, ManMN said:

There is no CE at this time. I'm using iCarsoft i960 OBDII scanner.  There is a menu called "Diagnostic" (different from the usual Actron reader), there is a submenu called DTCs.  I select to read DTCs codes and P0102 came up.  I select to clear the code.  Restart the engine, no more PSM light.  Drove around the block for  10 minutes - everything feels/looks normal.

 

Tomorrow, Monday, the commute will be 45 minute/30 miles.  I'll give updates.

 

 

You may be good to go then. I thought you had cleared the psm code and it returned. 

Good luck and enjoy. 

[ManMN]

Spoke too soon.

After a long commute, the CE came back as code P2189 - this is where it all began....  Well, I know now that the booster brake vacuum is somewhat fixed (need to order the OEM tube).  I changed Gas cap, Oil cap and one of the device (solenoid?) shown on 1 of my photos.  I swapped the MAP air sensor (Right/Left).  I bought a vacuum tester - which pipe should I check for the vacuum leaks? or is not the vacuum? O2 sensors? new MAP sensors?   $$$$$ will go out the window!  The car drives fine - idle smooth...

 

[lewisweller]

1 hour ago, ManMN said:

Spoke too soon.

After a long commute, the CE came back as code P2189 - this is where it all began....  Well, I know now that the booster brake vacuum is somewhat fixed (need to order the OEM tube).  I changed Gas cap, Oil cap and one of the device (solenoid?) shown on 1 of my photos.  I swapped the MAP air sensor (Right/Left).  I bought a vacuum tester - which pipe should I check for the vacuum leaks? or is not the vacuum? O2 sensors? new MAP sensors?   $$$$$ will go out the window!  The car drives fine - idle smooth...

 

P2189 is lean mixture on bank 2. 

Few things spring to mind, 

Intake manifold gasket leaks

Fuel injector blockages,fuel pressure / flow reduced, o2 sensor malfunction, maf sensor coils, plugs, compression etc 

The list is long, you will need to look at your fuel trims and sensors data. 

 

Also don't forget lean mixture can also mean misfire !! Lambda or o2 sensors only see excess oxygen not unburnt fuel, if you have misfires it can be flagged as lean codes also. Counter intuitive. 

 

So I would  pull all coils and plugs on bank 2  inspect take pictures and report.

Check all the vacuum pipe again carefully, But a vacuum issue won't cause just bank 2 to show fault. So I think the issues with psm and p2189 are independent of each other. 

[JFP in PA]

3 hours ago, ManMN said:

Spoke too soon.

After a long commute, the CE came back as code P2189 - this is where it all began....  Well, I know now that the booster brake vacuum is somewhat fixed (need to order the OEM tube).  I changed Gas cap, Oil cap and one of the device (solenoid?) shown on 1 of my photos.  I swapped the MAP air sensor (Right/Left).  I bought a vacuum tester - which pipe should I check for the vacuum leaks? or is not the vacuum? O2 sensors? new MAP sensors?   $$$$$ will go out the window!  The car drives fine - idle smooth...

 

 

Have you actually replaced the bad vacuum lines or are you still running with them patched?

[ManMN]

Got so busy last 10 days due to the end of FY - I'll replace the bad vacuum line in a week or so or when work is under control....The car is running OK with the code!