HP Fuel Adaptation Value

[09CayennePepper]

Yep, we did all of that 3 times. Every time the range 1 and 2 would eventually work its way back down to 0.69 and remain static. Before it would stick it would move around like you would expect within the specified range but within 40 miles or so it would drop and remain there.

[09CayennePepper]

So after an extended conversation with the indy and data mining in his system, call to a dealership head mechanic who, in turn had a conversation with another mechanic we have concluded that the next course of action is to replace the replaced HP pump. Seems to be a regulator type problem and the reg is integral to the pump. Luckily the pump I have has a 1 year warranty and it's only been 9 months or so. Hopefully in a week or so I should have everything to get the next step done. Maybe the last step?

[ma77hewsu11ivan]

Interesting. I put a -GX rebuild in today and the pulled out a -07... How often are these things going bad?? That -07 couldn't have been more than 3 years old! Also interesting is that the failed unit had an 'expiration' date of 2020...? So all in, I replaced both LP pumps, filter and regulator and the HP pump and stopper. And changed the oil. It was a fun DIY. I learned a lot. Car runs normally again. Joy. Next up, trans fluid and filter followed shortly thereafter by a full brake job.


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[09CayennePepper]

Congrats, glad it fixed it. I'm taking out the old (new) pump and exchanging for a new one tomorrow. Hopefully that will fix it. Good luck on the trans, I just can't quite get comfortable with the wheels spinning on jackstands while I'm under it, brake jobs on this car are as easy as I have encountered, especially if you don't have to replace the rotors.

[ma77hewsu11ivan]

Congrats, glad it fixed it. I'm taking out the old (new) pump and exchanging for a new one tomorrow. Hopefully that will fix it. Good luck on the trans, I just can't quite get comfortable with the wheels spinning on jackstands while I'm under it, brake jobs on this car are as easy as I have encountered, especially if you don't have to replace the rotors.

How's she doing?


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[09CayennePepper]

Went to another dealership to try and get the pump replaced under warranty but that was a no go. They wouldn't take my word for it (somewhat understandable) and told me they would have to test it to see if it had in fact failed. Well it was sitting on the counter in front of him so that posed a problem. The parts guy convinced me to make a service appointment so I went and talked with an advisor who feels confident they can figure it out although after a few minutes poking on his computer he asked if anyone had considered a camshaft slippage causing the error. Well no and I would think that if the camshaft had a problem I would be getting more than just a 1025 code being thrown. But I have an appointment on Wednesday for them to start. Needless to say I had to put the pump back on the car. Much more difficult with the intake manifold in place. I'll let you know what happens. If this one at least really looks at it it'll be an upgrade. Dealer is looking to get their classic Porsche credentials so maybe they'll be more focussed. Plus I have a friend who happens to know the service manager well and has given him a heads up, wish I had known that a few months ago.

Edited April 2, 2017 by 09CayennePepper
spelling

[09CayennePepper]

The latest. This dealer has had it since last Wednesday, called today to say that the tech thinks it is the low pressure pumps in the tank. Well those haven't been replaced yet but tested fine previously. So off to replace another set of parts. Good news is the dealer has offered to match the prices I'm getting at the other dealer in NC. I guess I'm busy for a bit. He quoted $2900 to do the pumps, I declined. Indy quoted $1775, a lot better but still.... I can do it. 

[ma77hewsu11ivan]

The latest. This dealer has had it since last Wednesday, called today to say that the tech thinks it is the low pressure pumps in the tank. Well those haven't been replaced yet but tested fine previously. So off to replace another set of parts. Good news is the dealer has offered to match the prices I'm getting at the other dealer in NC. I guess I'm busy for a bit. He quoted $2900 to do the pumps, I declined. Indy quoted $1775, a lot better but still.... I can do it. 

I had a feeling it was your LP system. VDO Siemens (OE) pumps can be found for $240/each, filter $120, L piece for filter $20, regulator $150 and new seals $20/EA. It's a pretty easy job. Do it with less than a quarter tank. Wear nitrile gloves. More than happy to talk you through it...

[09CayennePepper]

I hope your feeling is right. I already replaced the regulator and the filter so just the pumps and the L fitting are needed, $430 before shipping. I've already been in there so I'm familiar and the Pelican write up is pretty good but if I run into problems I'll give a shout.

[ma77hewsu11ivan]

I hope your feeling is right. I already replaced the regulator and the filter so just the pumps and the L fitting are needed, $430 before shipping. I've already been in there so I'm familiar and the Pelican write up is pretty good but if I run into problems I'll give a shout.

Killer price! Good luck!

[09CayennePepper]

Well. got them replaced, went out for a test drive with Durametric running live on the HP Fuel Adaptation 1 and it started out at 0.79, good. After a couple of miles it started dropping eventually after about 7 miles it is back to the dreaded 0.69. HP fuel pressure still fluctuating back and forth over the set point. Another grand, same problem. 

[ma77hewsu11ivan]

Tech at Porsche here in Chicago said they usually reflash there dme, adapt throttle and fuel trim. Said it'd be an hour ($250). Thankfully I didn't have any issues. Maybe it's just your dme needing an update? I still might get mine flashed. Just hit a 150k miles and notice my ox sensors are overly sensitive...


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[lewisweller]

9 hours ago, 09CayennePepper said:

Well. got them replaced, went out for a test drive with Durametric running live on the HP Fuel Adaptation 1 and it started out at 0.79, good. After a couple of miles it started dropping eventually after about 7 miles it is back to the dreaded 0.69. HP fuel pressure still fluctuating back and forth over the set point. Another grand, same problem. 

The now 10month old "new" hpfp I reckon is suspect. Its the only thing that makes sense. I would be pushing for that diagnosis confirmation and warranty replacement before it expires.

A quick search reveals on this and other Porsche models tsb/campaign for defective hpfp and new pumps lasting just 4k in some cases then needing replacement. 

 

[09CayennePepper]

The service guy said when I got it done to come back and they would reset everything so I'm going to take him up on it, may work, may not. I'm with you Lewis, I think the new pump is bad. Didn't have this problem before the pump was changed and we've eliminated just about everything else. $250 an hour, and I thought $190 per was bad.

[09CayennePepper]

Here's the latest. Dealer service finally has agreed with me that it's the HP pump that is suspect. They are going to replace it under warranty. Next appointment is this coming Wednesday. So today, I'm out and about - taking it easy on it for fear of total failure and sure enough, it died from fuel starvation. Was able to get it to restart twice, enough to get it home but it has definitely given up. Acts just like it did almost a year ago when I replaced the last HP pump. At least I'll get some confirmation when it shows up on the back of a wrecker, huh? Hoping the end of the saga is nigh!

[lewisweller]

1 hour ago, 09CayennePepper said:

Here's the latest. Dealer service finally has agreed with me that it's the HP pump that is suspect. They are going to replace it under warranty. Next appointment is this coming Wednesday. So today, I'm out and about - taking it easy on it for fear of total failure and sure enough, it died from fuel starvation. Was able to get it to restart twice, enough to get it home but it has definitely given up. Acts just like it did almost a year ago when I replaced the last HP pump. At least I'll get some confirmation when it shows up on the back of a wrecker, huh? Hoping the end of the saga is nigh!

Finally a symptom they can't argue with. Good luck with the new pump let's hope the revision is a good one and last the life of the car like it should do. 

[09CayennePepper]

Finally the saga is over. Replaced the HP pump and all is good. Except the starter was going, service said the amp draw was high. I knew it was harder and harder to start and figured that it needed to be replaced soon anyway. So.... pull the intake and fuel rail and replaced the starter and now she starts right up. After almost a year of fighting with it it is finally over, updated tags and running good. Next up trans service and new plugs.

[lewisweller]

2 hours ago, 09CayennePepper said:

Finally the saga is over. Replaced the HP pump and all is good. Except the starter was going, service said the amp draw was high. I knew it was harder and harder to start and figured that it needed to be replaced soon anyway. So.... pull the intake and fuel rail and replaced the starter and now she starts right up. After almost a year of fighting with it it is finally over, updated tags and running good. Next up trans service and new plugs.

Nice feeling I bet! 

[ma77hewsu11ivan]

That's awesome! Feels good doesn't it. Just did my trans fluid week before last. Plugs week before that.

 

Side note - been dealing with slop in my steering gear. You guys ever deal with that before on a ZF rack? Center play/wiggle left and right about 2 degrees. Drives me nuts. Any idea if I can simply adjust the yoke at the rotary valve?

 

2009 Cayenne S

[TomBelgium]

On 14-5-2017 at 7:21 PM, 09CayennePepper said:

Finally the saga is over. Replaced the HP pump and all is good. Except the starter was going, service said the amp draw was high. I knew it was harder and harder to start and figured that it needed to be replaced soon anyway. So.... pull the intake and fuel rail and replaced the starter and now she starts right up. After almost a year of fighting with it it is finally over, updated tags and running good. Next up trans service and new plugs.

 

Seems like you are able to read out your cayenne. Could you tell me what your actual value and setpoint values are at this moment? I suppose your car is still ok now? 

Because my actual HP value is around 5500mbar and the setpoint value is around 40000mbar. I am trying to figure out if my HP pump is dying. Because it already gave me a 1023 and 1026 fault last week.

[TomBelgium]

On 25-5-2017 at 7:05 AM, ma77hewsu11ivan said:

That's awesome! Feels good doesn't it. Just did my trans fluid week before last. Plugs week before that.

 

Side note - been dealing with slop in my steering gear. You guys ever deal with that before on a ZF rack? Center play/wiggle left and right about 2 degrees. Drives me nuts. Any idea if I can simply adjust the yoke at the rotary valve?

 

2009 Cayenne S

Do you know which setpoint and actual values the HP system should have at idle?

[ma77hewsu11ivan]

40bar at idle. Answered this is one of your other posts asking roughly the same questions about your situation :) It's 99% your HPFP. It sucks. Just went through this entire ordeal in March. Like my grandpa used to say- Getting the answer I want to hear won't change the problem or the solution... - Matt


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[TomBelgium]

4 minutes ago, ma77hewsu11ivan said:

40bar at idle. Answered this is one of your other posts asking roughly the same questions about your situation :) It's 99% your HPFP. It sucks. Just went through this entire ordeal in March. Like my grandpa used to say- Getting the answer I want to hear won't change the problem or the solution... - Matt


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Hi, thank you for the information. So the actual value should also be 40 bar? 

And it sucks indeed but at least now i am almost sure it will be the HPFP. I tried both fuel pumps in the tank by taking out the fuses of each one and it kept running on the left and right one. So they seems ok.

[TomBelgium]

This one is at idle after a minute or so.

Edited July 11, 2017 by TomBelgium

[ma77hewsu11ivan]

Yes. It's my understanding you should also perform a flow rate test on each pump. Either way, if they're original, they're likely on their last leg. Also, the fuel filter is likely nearing EOL along with the FPR (if all are original). Replacing all of the above sans the HPFP allowed reduced driveability (yes, not smart) during the week until my HPFP arrived... Oil change immediately after replacing HPFP, reset throttle adaptation, etc...