Alternative Transfer Case Fluid?

[deilenberger]

Folks,

 

On another forum I follow, there is an ongoing thread on transfer-case failures and replacements. Some people have experienced multiple failures, many people none whatsoever. One person showed a photo of his repair order, which included something interesting. Besides replacing the transfer case, they also replaced a vent hose for the transfer case. When he asked his service adviser - the adviser said Porsche had issued a WB (workshop bulletin) instructing them to replace the vent hose when the case was replaced. The open end of the vent hose was now located above the level of the transfer case, where before it ended low down on the transfer case.

 

The explanation for this by the SA was that Porsche determined that moisture was getting sucked into the cases and causing fluid contamination. Since the Xfer-case uses a multiplate wet clutch (much like a common design on motorcycles) - I can see where moisture might cause corrosion or rust that could cause the clutch to bind and work erratically - giving the symptoms described on failing cases.

 

So - I'm going to order and install the revised vent, and also do a preventative fluid change at the same time. Since the Porsche fluid is silly-priced (about $80/liter) - I thought I'd ask if anyone has an alternative that they've used. There are several "transfer case" fluids that I've seen mentioned as alternatives, but I'm looking for first hand experience here.. who has used what?

 

For those interested - the PN for the revised vent is: 958-301-047-10.  Roughly $30 from Sunset (least expensive I could find.. but I'm giving my FLD* a shot at it too..)

 

TIA!

 

* FLD = Friendly Local Dealer

[958S]

Thanks for the insight on the vent. I always check Pelican Parts when looking for an oem equivalent as they tend to indicate the brand that makes the Porsche brand. In this case they have the Porsche branded at much cheaper at $51.75. They also have two alternatives but neither seem to be the maker of the oem fluid, but at $15.75 and $33.25 a liter it might be worth checking out.

 

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/SuperCat/7086/POR_7086_BASMIS_pg4.htm#item16

 

 

That being said I have not used either but Pelican can likely talk through it with you. Maybe someone here has used either Shell or Fuchs.

[deilenberger]

Quote

 

Thanks - I saw the Pelican listing, and the alternatives they list may be fine, the Shell is the same oil Porsche relabeled and sold, and the other I'd like to hear from someone who has used it. What's interesting - if you look at the Porsche/Shell fluid - the details on the oil notes that "Part Number 000-043-301-36-OEM has been superseded to 000-043-305-63-OEM" - doesn't say when - but I imagine Porsche has a reason for changing the fluid..  So - it might be a case of me getting the expensive factory fluid with the new PN..

 

Grrrrr..

 

 

[deilenberger]

An update - this is also posted on 6-speed-on-line, so if you browse the 958 forum there, you may have seen it already. But in the hopes of bringing some technical activity to RENNTECH - here goes:

In one thread somewhere (?) a chap showed a photo of his repair bill for the new transfer case ("X-case" from now on) he received. He mentioned that Porsche had changed the design and that included a modified X-case vent that vented up higher.

On his repair order was the PN of the vent - 958-301-047-10. Available from Sunset Porsche for $28.71 (plus shipping.) I thought I'd drop by my FLD* and give them a shot at it, and see if I could glom any more info.

Turns out it was a good day to do that since they just finished replacing a X-case on a 958 /S - and had the old one on the shop floor waiting to get boxed up and returned to Porsche.

What I found out:

- The X-cases are still made by the same manufacturer. Indeed - the ones available are generally REBUILT ones done by that manufacturer. So - same basic design.

- The vent IS a change. On the existing X-Case the vent comes right out of the top of the large cylindrical part of the case (where the clutch lives) and is capped by one of the rather common fish-mouth sort of rubber caps that Porsche so loves (they are a sort of 1-way device - at least supposed to be for moisture. Maybe.) This cap just slips over a small hose sort of fitting that threads into the top of the case. The idea being that air can pass through the fish-mouth part of it

Took forever to find this:


 

Transfer Case Vent - photo shamelessly borrowed from eBay.

The old transfer case was right there - so I got to look closely at it. As part of the kit - the fitting on top of the case is unscrewed and a new fitting screwed in that connects to a corrugated plastic tube (Porsche is SO fond of these..) The plastic tube is then run up the firewall into the engine compartment - with all sorts of neat fittings and clips and tie-off points. The idea being - move the input to the vent to a dry heated area.

Problem is - the clearance isn't there to do this replacement with the X-Case in the vehicle.

BUT - my thinking is - simply remove the rubber cap/seal - put some high-temperature teflon tubing over the end of the existing fitting and run that up into the engine compartment. Come up with some way of using the existing rubber-seal on the end of that tubing.

So - that's the plan.

I'll be doing this while changing the X-case fluid. The shop-lead mentioned that the fluid is spec'd as "Lifetime" fill - and I just pointed to the X-case sitting on the shop floor - that apparently had exceeded it's lifetime. He agreed that a change of fluid is probably a good idea.

Next challenge - which fluid?

There is 000-043-301-36OEM - which was "superseded" by 000-043-305-63OEM. Cost at the dealer was around $75. Cost from Sunset Porsche is $47. I gave the dealer a chance to make the sale - but the difference is simply too much, even figuring I'll have to pay shipping from Sunset. The first oil is also available from Pelican for less $$, but I think I'm going with the new oil.

Oh - one other change the shop lead mentioned they make to the new X-case - is a new slinger on the output spline shaft, apparently to toss water differently from how it's tossed now if the vehicle is driven in heavy rain or water.

They were told that the "fix" for the cases is to keep the fluid from getting contaminated - and that's the reason for these modifications.

I'll try to remember to take some photos.

* FLD = Friendly Local Dealership

[Quickster2]

I assume you need to buy 2 quarts to fully fill the x-fer case since one may not be able to completely empty the container during the fill? Thx

[958S]

I assume you need to buy 2 quarts to fully fill the x-fer case since one may not be able to completely empty the container during the fill? Thx

I believe you would want to use a hand siphon pump (very cheap at auto store) so you can get it filled properly and probably one bottle would do, but I would like to hear from someone that did it to confirm.

[Quickster2]

I have the pump but based on prior experience and servicing marine lower units you always need more than the specified amount during the fill. Thx for the reply. 

[deilenberger]

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 6:06 AM, Quickster2 said:

I assume you need to buy 2 quarts to fully fill the x-fer case since one may not be able to completely empty the container during the fill? Thx

 

Rated capacity is 0.85L. It pretty much sits mostly in the bottom of the chain case part until it starts moving then the chain drags some up to the top where it splashes around and lubricates the planetary gear and the clutch assembly.  I've found the Porsche capacity listings are pretty accurate (my engine takes exactly 10 quarts of oil- which is 9.5L (9.46353, but who's counting..)

[deilenberger]

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 6:08 AM, 958S said:

I believe you would want to use a hand siphon pump (very cheap at auto store) so you can get it filled properly and probably one bottle would do, but I would like to hear from someone that did it to confirm.

 

One of these makes short work of getting every drop to where it belongs:  http://a.co/10ERX9J

 

 

 

[Quickster2]

I have two of these bought 10/15. Great tools. Also have the hand pump type that screw in the top of a quart container. I won't be changing mine to the new fluid for another month or so at the next oil change. I'll have 2 quarts handy in case I spill any. Will report findings then. 

[the head]

I just replaced the fluid in mine with Motul DCTF fluid.  Yes, I realize the transfer case isn't the PDK... The fluid is a replacement for Shell TF0870.

The fluid was definitely burned.  If you've ever smelled burned transmission fluid that's what it smelled like.  I took some pics as shown.  Looking at the oil I didn't see any metal flakes in it, indicating any kind of obvious metal wear.  There was also no indication of water in the oil.  It took a little over 0.8 liters to fill it back up.  Took it for a drive and so far, so good.  I didn't go very far but did drive long enough for the jerkiness to manifest itself as usual.  I'll post an update later this week.  Hoping for the best!

[deilenberger]

I'm thinking of taking a sample when I change mine and have Blackstone look at it. I'll have to contact them and see if they have any virgin samples to compare it to..

[Quickster2]

Just to be clear my local Indie shop used BMW X-fer case fluid in the change a few hundred miles ago, Vehicle mileage at 65K. I believe this was the 1st change. Regardless, at 70K miles, with the next oil change DIY, I will go with the new OEM fluid per Don's update. My fluid drained relatively clear with no abnormal smells at this time per the Tech. New "superseded" P/N fluid on order at this time. 

[deilenberger]

24 minutes ago, Quickster2 said:

Just to be clear my local Indie shop used BMW X-fer case fluid in the change a few hundred miles ago, Vehicle mileage at 65K. I believe this was the 1st change. Regardless, at 70K miles, with the next oil change DIY, I will go with the new OEM fluid per Don's update. My fluid drained relatively clear with no abnormal smells at this time per the Tech. New "superseded" P/N fluid on order at this time. 

The BMW stuff is identical to the Porsche original spec oil. And it seems much more readily available (but not any cheaper.)

[deilenberger]

3 hours ago, the head said:

 I didn't go very far but did drive long enough for the jerkiness to manifest itself as usual.  I'll post an update later this week.  Hoping for the best!

 

You were experiencing symptoms? 

 

I'd love to have gotten a wear indicator reading on your old oil. I can read this with the iCarScan, and the factory service manual gives a maximum value.

 

This is what the manual says:

 

WM 0335IN DIAGNOSTIC MAINTENANCE: RESETTING DIAGNOSTIC SYSTEM AND
SERVICE INTERVAL (CAYENNE, CAYENNE S, CAYENNE S E-HYBRID, CAYENNE
TURBO, CAYENNE (3.0), CAYENNE GTS & CAYENNE TURBO S) > RESETTING
SERVICE INTERVAL > READING OUT TRANSFER GEAR WEAR INTEGRATOR

The transmission wear integrator oil must be checked during every intermediate
maintenance/maintenance.
1. Start PIWIS Tester II 9818 and follow the instructions on the Tester.
2. Select the vehicle type and start the PIDT.
3. Select the All-wheel menu.
4. Select the Actual values, input signals menu.
5. Select the T_wear integrators menu. Press [F12] to continue.
6. Read out the value for V40 transmission wear integrator - oil .
    If this value is greater than 145 kWh , the oil in the transfer gear must be changed →
    Changing oil for transfer gear. If the value is lower, no further action is required.
7. If the oil in the transfer gear has been changed, the value must be deleted and reset to zero by
pressing [F8]

 

FWIW - I have no idea why this measurement is in kiloWatt hours (kWh) - http://www.energylens.com/articles/kw-and-kwh since that's a measurement of energy

[958S]

It seems that the drain and fill plugs should be replaced when changing the fluid, has anyone found the part number in doing this fluid change on the 958? I found an older 955 part number but presumed it is a different transfer case.

[deilenberger]

I believe the PN is the same as the older plugs - starts with 955.. but - in looking at photos of it on Pelican's website, it looks like a simple threaded plug with some sealant on the threads. I would guess some Teflon tape pipe sealant will work just fine, and since the plugs are around $20/each - I believe I'll be reusing mine.

[958S]

I came up with 955-301-115-01 for the plugs but wasn't sure if it carried over to the 958 as it did not give an application.

[the head]

I reused the plugs and don't have any leaks

[the head]

OK so a quick update - still no issues driving under various conditions so for now I'm in the clear.  Smooth as it should be driving with small throttle all the way to wide open.

[958S]

 
You were experiencing symptoms? 
 
I'd love to have gotten a wear indicator reading on your old oil. I can read this with the iCarScan, and the factory service manual gives a maximum value.
 
This is what the manual says:
 
WM 0335IN DIAGNOSTIC MAINTENANCE: RESETTING DIAGNOSTIC SYSTEM AND
SERVICE INTERVAL (CAYENNE, CAYENNE S, CAYENNE S E-HYBRID, CAYENNE
TURBO, CAYENNE (3.0), CAYENNE GTS & CAYENNE TURBO S) > RESETTING
SERVICE INTERVAL > READING OUT TRANSFER GEAR WEAR INTEGRATOR

The transmission wear integrator oil must be checked during every intermediate
maintenance/maintenance.
1. Start PIWIS Tester II 9818 and follow the instructions on the Tester.
2. Select the vehicle type and start the PIDT.
3. Select the All-wheel menu.
4. Select the Actual values, input signals menu.
5. Select the T_wear integrators menu. Press [F12] to continue.
6. Read out the value for V40 transmission wear integrator - oil .
    If this value is greater than 145 kWh , the oil in the transfer gear must be changed →
    Changing oil for transfer gear. If the value is lower, no further action is required.
7. If the oil in the transfer gear has been changed, the value must be deleted and reset to zero by
pressing [F8]
 
FWIW - I have no idea why this measurement is in kiloWatt hours (kWh) - http://www.energylens.com/articles/kw-and-kwh since that's a measurement of energy

I have the icarscan tool and want to do this as well before I change it, just to see the value. Did you drive it to heat up the oil first or does that matter since it is likely a stored value from the prior trip within certain parameters? Any other tips in using the icarscan tool or should it be straight forward?

[JFP in PA]

50 minutes ago, 958S said:

I have the icarscan tool and want to do this as well before I change it, just to see the value. Did you drive it to heat up the oil first or does that matter since it is likely a stored value from the prior trip within certain parameters? Any other tips in using the icarscan tool or should it be straight forward?

 

Are you sure that your tool is capable of reading these values?

[deilenberger]

2 hours ago, JFP in PA said:

 

Are you sure that your tool is capable of reading these values?

 

It reads them - but no real explanation of what they mean or what's acceptable.

 

Here is a text version of the data it reports:

=====2017-02-11 16:28:39=====

V10_Transmission wear integrator- mileage since last oil service 71377.73 mile

V20_Transmission wear integrator- chain 277653360 j

V30_Transmission wear integrator- clutch 1113942712 j

V40_Transmission wear integrator- oil 78 kwh

V50_Transmission wear integrator- roll-over counter 110988

V60_Disc wear integrator- disc work 0.2- 2.0 kw 56611416 j

V70_Disc wear integrator- disc work < 0.2kW 171189563 j

V80_Disc wear integrator - disc work > 2 kW 2086066 j

 

Any idea what the numbers mean? I assume all the measurements are in units of power (kWh, and Joules) - but don't quite understand why that's so..  by the spec's from the manual - my V40 oil wear integrator number is fine.

 

Edited March 18, 2017 by deilenberger

[deilenberger]

The Head - are you doing the 2nd oil change with the same oil?  I know on another forum you mentioned you've been driving it all week - hard - and have not experienced any of the symptoms it formerly exhibited.  And I seem to recall you used the Mutol listed as compatible by Pelican?

Edited March 18, 2017 by deilenberger

[JFP in PA]

12 hours ago, deilenberger said:

 

It reads them - but no real explanation of what they mean or what's acceptable.

 

Here is a text version of the data it reports:

=====2017-02-11 16:28:39=====

V10_Transmission wear integrator- mileage since last oil service 71377.73 mile

V20_Transmission wear integrator- chain 277653360 j

V30_Transmission wear integrator- clutch 1113942712 j

V40_Transmission wear integrator- oil 78 kwh

V50_Transmission wear integrator- roll-over counter 110988

V60_Disc wear integrator- disc work 0.2- 2.0 kw 56611416 j

V70_Disc wear integrator- disc work < 0.2kW 171189563 j

V80_Disc wear integrator - disc work > 2 kW 2086066 j

 

Any idea what the numbers mean? I assume all the measurements are in units of power (kWh, and Joules) - but don't quite understand why that's so..  by the spec's from the manual - my V40 oil wear integrator number is fine.

 

 

There are factory spec ranges for each value that are designed to be used as wear characteristics to determine when service is required, much like useful tread depth on tires.