Turbo / MAF replacement, Oil found

[ekstroemtj]

Oh oh. Hope will be not as difficult as it sounds like. 

Oil spots around this black cabs point to the seal. I had one replaced last year. 

When you are there unwrap the wires and check. Mine where toast

[lewisweller]

On 08/11/2017 at 12:59 AM, Zakowsky said:

Some more info. Checking for codes I found Bank 2: Camshaft A (Intake) P0021 - 008. Possible causes include "Sealing strips on inlet camshaft adjuster faulty". So the camshaft adjusters are under those black caps on the front of the valve covers (like your photo above Thomas), and I assume that is what it refers to.  But I'm not sure what they mean by sealing strips…it would be nice to think it is the o-rings that seal the electrical connectors where they come through the valve covers, but I'm thinking it's probably not that simple. And even if the oil leak was through the adjuster connector (and there is a bit of a leak there because it pools with oil), I'd probably have to take the valve covers off (and bend the cam finger tab in the process!). Cleared the code and will see if it comes back.

Mike I replaced these and you don't need to remove the valve cover or sensor or anything. 

Buy the seal part number 4 from Porsche not too expensive! Don't say that often do we! 

Then remove plastic cover and disconnect electrical connector. 

Use a wide strong flat blade screw drivers to deform the old seal enough to pull it up and out.  Be careful not to crack or scratch the chappy plastic valve cover recess. Wipe Clean all surfaces. 

I added a smear of red high temp gasket sealer to my new seal outer edge to be sure it would seal nicely and slid it in and home with a socket sat on top and a gentle tap. 

Job takes about 10 minutes per side. Piece of p*ss. 

 

Mine were dribbling and weeping a bit of oil so that's why I did it and I thought it may also be a vacuum leak so double whammy Fix. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by lewisweller

[Zakowsky]

Thanks Lewis - going to order them today. After packing shop towels around the electrical connector the oil smell does seem better now. I tested it right after cleaning them out by going over hard bumps and got the smell again once, and thought that wasn't it, but over the past few days I haven't smelt it again so maybe it was old oil that dripped down somewhere and was still hanging around. Time will tell, but these need to be replaced at any rate. And it sounds easy for a change! And who knows, maybe the code was just dirt in the oil or something; I haven't had time to do a live monitoring of the cam advance but will do that as well, and that should tell me if it is something more serious.

[ekstroemtj]

Changed summer wheels to winter. They don’t look good anymore and they have a strange pattern left and right 

[lewisweller]

11 hours ago, ekstroemtj said:

Changed summer wheels to winter. They don’t look good anymore and they have a strange pattern left and right 

Looks like this tyre was fitted on the rear and it's been toeing in for a while hence the dragging of rubber marks seen in the last picture. I've seen worse! 

[Zakowsky]

Must be nice to be just putting on your winter tires now, here in Canada they have been on for weeks! Those don't look too bad, comparatively. I'm running my ice tires now on 20" rims, and I have bought a set of 18" rims but I can't decide on tires, been reading way too much and stuck between getting BFG KO2's or Cooper ATW's. Want to do some off-roading in the summer, but still make it through the deep snow and ice we get here. Will probably get the KO2's.

 

But with all the tire swapping (or possibly the cold snowy weather) I now have a bunch of error codes to worry about. Daily I get:

 

01772 - Signal from Level Control Pressure Sensor (G291) 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

 

So RossTech says either a wiring, sensor or air leak problem. But since I've been changing wheels so frequently these days, I'm hoping calibrating the suspension will help. At Normal level my absolute offsets are:

 

  123.0  Left Front (G78) Absolute Height
  134.0  Right Front (G289) Absolute Height
  124.0  Left Rear (G76) Absolute Height
  124.0  Right Rear (G77) Absolute Height

 

The right front is way off, and the error appears mainly when I go to higher levels, so once I get the nerve to enter the security codes and figure out how to recalibrate it I'll see if that helps. But many people online say this could mean the compressor needs a rebuild kit, although it sounds fine and runs the same as it always did. And as far as leaks, it the suspension doesn't sink or anything, or the compressor turn on when you don't expect it.

 

Other code is:

16825 - EVAP Emission Control Sys P0441 - 002 - Incorrect Flow - MIL ON

 

So it sounds like my N80 valve is going to need attention.

 

And I still get 16405 - Bank 2: Camshaft A (Intake) P0021 - 008 - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced) - Intermittent once in a while. Have to look at the wiring of that one too.

 

Hope these aren't too serious...

 

[ekstroemtj]

13 hours ago, lewisweller said:

Looks like this tyre was fitted on the rear and it's been toeing in for a while hence the dragging of rubber marks seen in the last picture. I've seen worse! 

 

Yes this ones are from behind.

What means „toeing“?

thank you Lewis

[ekstroemtj]

@Zakowsky hello to Canada

 

regarding your codes I can say, the lower temperature always brings air suspension workshop messages to my display too. Don’t know why. Usually they disappear after new start. Maybe again a low voltage problem. Don’t know. 

 

As you remember i had problems with the EVAP valve too. The part isn’t that expensive. Lewis would say change it and forget about the problems. 

 

 

[Zakowsky]

Interesting that yours does it too Thomas. Once a day mine would trigger the workshop warning, too much to let slide. I thought of all these codes and a low battery, but going ahead and recalibrating the suspension seems to have stopped the suspension one for a day anyway. Btw coding the suspension was a nail biter, but it turned out fine. I didn't think you had to hit save after doing each wheel, and it wouldn't let me confirm the changes on channel 5, it just denied access to the channel. Then when I exited it said calibration was incomplete and disabled the air suspension, like permanently! Freaked out for a while but by following the instructions exactly, channel 5 appeared, confirmed, and now the vehicle is closer to level and no errors (yet).

 

But the EVAP error is getting much worse, CEL sometimes on and the error quickly reappears after clearing. Quick question - so the electronic valve itself seems OK, but one of the check valves is strange. We all know these lines well, but in the picture, there are the two one way valves that goes into the T (red and green arrows), that then goes into the valve (blue line). The green one, the one that then goes up and into the AOS line, it works as a one way valve if pointed down, but if you lay it flat or tip the T end upward, it won't close. This is not normal, correct? I'm just wondering if my N80 valve is fine and it is this check valve that is causing the error.

 

Another thing I was thinking Thomas is the oil smell we are getting occasionally, maybe it is not dripping oil (which I really can't see on mine), but if the EVAP system is malfunctioning, maybe crankcase vent fumes are occasionally being barfed out somewhere because of a pressure build up due to a malfunction.

 

Btw - is there a part number for these check valves? On the fiche it looks like it is part of the breather hose, 94811014800, but when you look at the part online it doesn't appear to have the valve, just the hose. Thanks.

 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Zakowsky

[lewisweller]

4 hours ago, Zakowsky said:

Interesting that yours does it too Thomas. Once a day mine would trigger the workshop warning, too much to let slide. I thought of all these codes and a low battery, but going ahead and recalibrating the suspension seems to have stopped the suspension one for a day anyway. Btw coding the suspension was a nail biter, but it turned out fine. I didn't think you had to hit save after doing each wheel, and it wouldn't let me confirm the changes on channel 5, it just denied access to the channel. Then when I exited it said calibration was incomplete and disabled the air suspension, like permanently! Freaked out for a while but by following the instructions exactly, channel 5 appeared, confirmed, and now the vehicle is closer to level and no errors (yet).

 

But the EVAP error is getting much worse, CEL sometimes on and the error quickly reappears after clearing. Quick question - so the electronic valve itself seems OK, but one of the check valves is strange. We all know these lines well, but in the picture, there are the two one way valves that goes into the T (red and green arrows), that then goes into the valve (blue line). The green one, the one that then goes up and into the AOS line, it works as a one way valve if pointed down, but if you lay it flat or tip the T end upward, it won't close. This is not normal, correct? I'm just wondering if my N80 valve is fine and it is this check valve that is causing the error.

 

Another thing I was thinking Thomas is the oil smell we are getting occasionally, maybe it is not dripping oil (which I really can't see on mine), but if the EVAP system is malfunctioning, maybe crankcase vent fumes are occasionally being barfed out somewhere because of a pressure build up due to a malfunction.

 

Btw - is there a part number for these check valves? On the fiche it looks like it is part of the breather hose, 94811014800, but when you look at the part online it doesn't appear to have the valve, just the hose. Thanks.

 

Part numbers attached picture is items 14 and 25 for the valve you have to buy the whole pipe section. Rolls eyes. 

 

These one way valves ( just noticed they have arrows on them!) are normally open or flap around sort of open and require boost pressure from the manifold side to close properly or vaccum to open properly. Get your head round that!  

I think during idle vacuum 25 is sucked open and draw through vented tank fumes via the purge valve if it's open. Then when you're on acceleration the boost pressure closes 25 and 14 is actually sucked open via the turbo intake pipe where it's connects to. 

 

So the simple test is to suck hard on the disconnected open end of the pipe(s) as per your picture and they should be closed. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by lewisweller

[wizard]

18 hours ago, ekstroemtj said:

@Zakowsky hello to Canada

 

regarding your codes I can say, the lower temperature always brings air suspension workshop messages to my display too. Don’t know why. Usually they disappear after new start. Maybe again a low voltage problem. Don’t know. 

 

 

 

 

Guten Tag, Thomas.

I'm not at all familiar with Cayennes but, if there's a difference in total wheel diameter between your summer and winter tyres, wouldn't that affect ride height and air suspension setting? Just a thought as to what might trigger the code.

[Zakowsky]

6 hours ago, lewisweller said:

Part numbers attached picture is items 14 and 25 for the valve you have to buy the whole pipe section. Rolls eyes. 

 

These one way valves ( just noticed they have arrows on them!) are normally open or flap around sort of open and require boost pressure from the manifold side to close properly or vaccum to open properly. Get your head round that!  

I think during idle vacuum 25 is sucked open and draw through vented tank fumes via the purge valve if it's open. Then when you're on acceleration the boost pressure closes 25 and 14 is actually sucked open via the turbo intake pipe where it's connects to. 

 

So the simple test is to suck hard on the disconnected open end of the pipe(s) as per your picture and they should be closed.

 

Checking the two valve for flow by sucking on them, the one on the right was perfect, the other even if I can get it to close wasn't fully sealed. Yeah right, $70 for a $3 check valve - so I soaked it WD40 o/n, then hammered on it until I got it working reasonably well. Just started it up and no error code in about 10 minutes of running, whereas before it would take about 30 seconds, so we'll see. One thing to note, my P044 code indicates a flow problem, and so it would make sense that it is a check valve rather than the N80 itself. But time will tell.

[Zakowsky]

2 hours ago, wizard said:

Guten Tag, Thomas.

I'm not at all familiar with Cayennes but, if there's a difference in total wheel diameter between your summer and winter tyres, wouldn't that affect ride height and air suspension setting? Just a thought as to what might trigger the code.

 

That's a good point - my code was triggered when I started switching between my 22", 20" and 18" rims. I still haven't got a suspension code since calibrating, so maybe that’s what you have to do.

[lewisweller]

31 minutes ago, Zakowsky said:

 

Checking the two valve for flow by sucking on them, the one on the right was perfect, the other even if I can get it to close wasn't fully sealed. Yeah right, $70 for a $3 check valve - so I soaked it WD40 o/n, then hammered on it until I got it working reasonably well. Just started it up and no error code in about 10 minutes of running, whereas before it would take about 30 seconds, so we'll see. One thing to note, my P044 code indicates a flow problem, and so it would make sense that it is a check valve rather than the N80 itself. But time will tell.

Yeah flow through that valve 25 or more like lack of it, seems to point to the code accurately. 

[ekstroemtj]

19 hours ago, wizard said:

Guten Tag, Thomas.

I'm not at all familiar with Cayennes but, if there's a difference in total wheel diameter between your summer and winter tyres, wouldn't that affect ride height and air suspension setting? Just a thought as to what might trigger the code.

Hello and greetings to Westerwald. 

Thank you for your note. Maybe you are right but the air suspension workshop failure I got already last week when I still used summer wheels. In my case I believe it’s related to outside temp / maybe battery power.

Edited November 14, 2017 by ekstroemtj

[Brainz006]

Air suspension workshop message is often related to a failing piston ring on the air pump and often indicates that the pump is having to work too hard to raise the system pressure (and/or change ride height). I'm not sure why it seems to also be temperature dependent, but it's probably thermal expansion related. I bought a cheap eBay kit which didn't work (piston ring was slightly too small), and then found another vendor that sold a more expensive, but better made kit which, along with a full cleaning of the pump on the bench, fixed my issue. There's a lot of threads and videos on this repair as it's a common problem amongst a lot of European cars with air suspension. If you've not done this maintenance, I'd put it on the list to potentially get rid of that error message. The parts were around $40 and it took an hour or two to overhaul the pump from start to finish.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[Zakowsky]

So do you still get the oil smell Thomas? Because the more I look into this the more I think it is an EVAP system problem not a leak. I fixed the check valve - if anyone is interested they do come apart if you pry at them:

 

 

You can see the center of the diaphragm was ripped out - some glue and a small piece of latex glove backing and it sorks like new again. But the problem isn't fully solved. Drove all day and didn't get any error codes, and didn't smell oil. But I went over a hard bump, smelt the oil and then pulled over and check for codes and sure enough the P0441 came back. So I'm thinking the oil smell must be some venting of the crankcase.

 

The check valve seems like it was part of it, but there is still something else going on. Lewis, do you remember the air flow through hose #4 on your diagram, the one from the bottom of the Y pipe to the back? It splits into one line that goes to the air pump, and the other into an elbow into the manifold, and another that goes off to the drivers side somewhere. When I suck/blow into it there is some air flow in both directions - I get the feeling there should be a check valve on this line because it goes right into the intake, and you would be always bleeding off boost pressure, unless there was positive pressure in it all the time.

 

 

You have to blow pretty hard into it to get air to flow, but it does.

 

 

[lewisweller]

7 hours ago, Zakowsky said:

So do you still get the oil smell Thomas? Because the more I look into this the more I think it is an EVAP system problem not a leak. I fixed the check valve - if anyone is interested they do come apart if you pry at them:

 

 

You can see the center of the diaphragm was ripped out - some glue and a small piece of latex glove backing and it sorks like new again. But the problem isn't fully solved. Drove all day and didn't get any error codes, and didn't smell oil. But I went over a hard bump, smelt the oil and then pulled over and check for codes and sure enough the P0441 came back. So I'm thinking the oil smell must be some venting of the crankcase.

 

The check valve seems like it was part of it, but there is still something else going on. Lewis, do you remember the air flow through hose #4 on your diagram, the one from the bottom of the Y pipe to the back? It splits into one line that goes to the air pump, and the other into an elbow into the manifold, and another that goes off to the drivers side somewhere. When I suck/blow into it there is some air flow in both directions - I get the feeling there should be a check valve on this line because it goes right into the intake, and you would be always bleeding off boost pressure, unless there was positive pressure in it all the time.

 

 

You have to blow pretty hard into it to get air to flow, but it does.

 

 

Yes pipe 4 is the venturi pipe, it creates vacuum for the brake booster by allowing manifold pressure to bleed off and back around to the connector located in the Y pipe in front of the throttle. This air flow even though it's positive pressure cleverly creates a vacuum in the other tube which Tees into another pipe linked to the vac pump and around to the booster.

As the air in the system is not lost this doesn't affect the MAF measurements. 

The vacuum pump is therefore afforded a rest.

 

When your at idle and pump the brake pedal repeatedly you can hear the vac pump kick in as the venturi pipe isn't able to create enough vacuum at idle if your pumping the pedal. This is how to test the vac pump works. And also the engine off, brake pedal pumped until hard and held down, then engine on, pedal should drop as vac in booster increases. 

 

So by blowing or sucking pipe 4 I think it is correct it is open into the manifold. 

 

[Zakowsky]

Thanks Lewis; it seems the vacuum pump is working fine, pumping the brakes caused it to turn on as described...I also tested the white one-way valve at the back and it seems to work. And it makes sense that #4 is open to the manifold. But now seems I've screwed something up blowing air maybe through the system, as the error code instantly returns now, even though the valve at the front is working fine. When I clear the code the engine changes its sound quite a bit, not in speed but it sounds like the flow of air changes. And once the vac pump came on when I cleared the code, so it seems I have even more to figure out now.

 

Edit: took the morning to test the n80 purge valve and it works perfect. Other one listed is a N115 valve, but I don't think the Cayenne even has one. Tonight I guess I'll look for the EVAP canister itself.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Zakowsky

[lewisweller]

2 hours ago, Zakowsky said:

Thanks Lewis; it seems the vacuum pump is working fine, pumping the brakes caused it to turn on as described...I also tested the white one-way valve at the back and it seems to work. And it makes sense that #4 is open to the manifold. But now seems I've screwed something up blowing air maybe through the system, as the error code instantly returns now, even though the valve at the front is working fine. When I clear the code the engine changes its sound quite a bit, not in speed but it sounds like the flow of air changes. And once the vac pump came on when I cleared the code, so it seems I have even more to figure out now.

 

Edit: took the morning to test the n80 purge valve and it works perfect. Other one listed is a N115 valve, but I don't think the Cayenne even has one. Tonight I guess I'll look for the EVAP canister itself.

Check the wiring to the purge valve. Maybe getting crispy. 

You confirmed the purge valves works but it's very likely the valve can work but not properly or intermittently. 

Also that check valve you repaired, is it possible it is getting stuck open or closed ? 

I would be seriously looking at the purge valve as when you clear the code only something electrical can work again on command ie the purge valve itself. 

 

[ekstroemtj]

@Zakowsky... Mikel, i hadn’t have the smell lately. But can’t tell you why . Like i wrote in my original post, i believe it’s not burned oil. It tastes like fumes from the PCV / crankcase ventilation. I believe you are on the right way. 

 

What Lewis mention, please go to check the wiring to the purge valve. Mine was cake too. In the end I can’t even say if the wiring was the problem or the purge valve. I changed both.

 

[Zakowsky]

Thanks Thomas - I checked the wires and they are fine. Maybe it’s the cold and hostile wasteland of Canada, but the wiring on this vehicle is in really mint shape. Anyway to be certain of all this I patched in the oscilloscope into the circuit and monitored while running:

 

 

So a good 13.7 volts are getting to it; when I hook it up to a current source it clicks and opens and closes smoothly and without fail, and when I accidentally disconnected it while the engine was running I got a P0444 - EVAP Purge Control Valve (N80): Circuit Open error, which I have never seen before.

 

So the only chance that it is the N80 valve is if at 16 Hz it somehow fails. Anyone who has monitored solenoids like this before, is that big negative spike normal? I am figuring it is just an artifact of the probe, or does it indicate that the N80 is drawing too much current when closing? I can't hear the valve when the engine is running, but its right next to all the lifter noise.

 

Btw I checked my fix of the one-way valve 4 times - took the Y-pipe off and disconnected the T hose, so not disturbing the one-way valve, and it was working perfectly each time.

 

So if everything is OK up front, I guess I have to go look at the EVAP canister itself? Is it in the rear wheel tub or something? ****.

 

[ekstroemtj]

If you can hear the valve it’s already a fault. The ticktick of the purge valve is a clear sign something is wrong. IMO this is showing the valve is open/close/open/close

Edited November 16, 2017 by ekstroemtj

[Zakowsky]

3 hours ago, ekstroemtj said:

If you can hear the valve it’s already a fault. The ticktick of the purge valve is a clear sign something is wrong. IMO this is showing the valve is open/close/open/close

 

Not positive, but I think the valve is supposed to work like this, turning on and off rapidly to mediate the flow, much like the N75 solenoid. I can't hear ticking when the engine is running, only if I listen carefully when the engine is off and I apply external battery power.

 

The odd thing is after putting everything back together last night, it stopped throwing error codes again. The smell is still there, and under "Readiness" there is still a fault with "Evaporative Emissions", but no codes. So maybe this is something at the front rather than the back after all. Curious about those negative spikes though. Will see how it goes over the next few days.

 

[lewisweller]

19 hours ago, Zakowsky said:

Thanks Thomas - I checked the wires and they are fine. Maybe it’s the cold and hostile wasteland of Canada, but the wiring on this vehicle is in really mint shape. Anyway to be certain of all this I patched in the oscilloscope into the circuit and monitored while running:

 

 

So a good 13.7 volts are getting to it; when I hook it up to a current source it clicks and opens and closes smoothly and without fail, and when I accidentally disconnected it while the engine was running I got a P0444 - EVAP Purge Control Valve (N80): Circuit Open error, which I have never seen before.

 

So the only chance that it is the N80 valve is if at 16 Hz it somehow fails. Anyone who has monitored solenoids like this before, is that big negative spike normal? I am figuring it is just an artifact of the probe, or does it indicate that the N80 is drawing too much current when closing? I can't hear the valve when the engine is running, but its right next to all the lifter noise.

 

Btw I checked my fix of the one-way valve 4 times - took the Y-pipe off and disconnected the T hose, so not disturbing the one-way valve, and it was working perfectly each time.

 

So if everything is OK up front, I guess I have to go look at the EVAP canister itself? Is it in the rear wheel tub or something? ****.

 

Where are you reading 13.7v from? I see 5.2v stated as ch1. 

 

Looks normal for PWM. 

https://www.tlxtech.com/understanding-solenoids/theory-operation/pwm-solenoid-theory

The voltage is on/off, hence 0v up to ??v is seen. 

So this shows your valve is open about 70%. 

 

I don't think this proves the valve is mechanically working correctly. But electrically it is looking normal.

Bit of carb cleaner squirted in the open end whilst it's operating might free up a potential gummy blockage?   Or from the back side pipe which means some removal required. 

 

Or spend 100 bucks on a new purge valve to find out if you wasted 100 bucks. 

 

Oh you should test the valve when the code is present and whilst it's on test reset the code and see what happens ! Init.