Gears not changing, wheels not spinning

[danish]

I was changing tranny filter and oil, and everything was going smooth until refill time. I refilled via fill plug with about 2-3 quarts or less until it started to pour out. I put the fill plug back in, started the engine and started changing gears while another person was monitoring temp to refill.

We noticed that temp was not increasing much, mostly staying at around 32 celsius. We decided to remove the brakes and let wheels spin. And guess what wheels were not spinning.

First thing comes to mind is there is not enough oil there, so we take out the fill plug and oil starts pouring out.

From that moment on, we tried everything from spinning wheels manually to changing gears. But the wheels don't spin and the dial shows that the car is in D.

No matter which gear we the car in and try to refill, it starts to pour out very quickly.

What could be going on?

The oil that was drained was not that bad, it still had a bit of redness in it. No metals were found on the magnets either.

All in all, was supposed to be a simple procedure which left the car dead.

Any suggestion on what to try?

Thank

Danish

[Brainz006]

You definitely do not have enough fluid in there. You probably did not install the filter correctly. Drop the pan again and undo the filter and make sure you used the oring and that it's seated correctly. It may be easier to put the oring in the hole and push the filter up into the hole. It must be on straight. If you pinch oelr cut the the oring, the pump wont be able to suck upnthe fluid. Also, for avoidance of doubt, note that you have to fill the trans with the engine running. With the engine off, you'll only get 3-4 quarts in there, but running it will take 7 or more quarts. Good luck.

[JFP in PA]

You definitely do not have enough fluid in there. You probably did not install the filter correctly. Drop the pan again and undo the filter and make sure you used the oring and that it's seated correctly. It may be easier to put the oring in the hole and push the filter up into the hole. It must be on straight. If you pinch oelr cut the the oring, the pump wont be able to suck upnthe fluid. Also, for avoidance of doubt, note that you have to fill the trans with the engine running. With the engine off, you'll only get 3-4 quarts in there, but running it will take 7 or more quarts. Good luck.

 

+1.  Common mistake.

[danish]

Thank you Brainz and JFP. I will try dropping the pan again tomorrow to check the o-ring on the filter neck. I am not 100% sure if I put the filter O-ring correctly so if any recommendation can be given, much appreciatd. Any particular way to put the filter back up?

I did not push the filter up too much, instead let the bolts take care of it, while another person was holding it and I was putting the bolts in.

Also, is the o-ring supposed to be all the way at the base of the neck, or at one of the groove above it? I left it at the groove where it sat fine.

Final fill should happen on neutral or park or while changing gears?

Some more info, I am now getting P0721 fault code as well. Is this due to the same issue or is the issue because of this code (something else)?

I forgot to mention that I changed front and rear diff and transfer case oil at the same time. Although I doubt that it would affect tranny service, but wanted to point it out. For Diffs I used Redline 75/90, and for TC, I used Redline D4 ATF.

Thanks

Danish

Edited July 3, 2016 by danish

[Brainz006]

The key is that the oring needs to get seated properly. I'm doing this from memory, so I'm foggy on exact details. When I did it (correctly, on the 2nd try), I installed the oring on the filter neck in the recess - - use ATF to lube it up. Then push it straight into the valve body hole. I evenly finger-tightened the bolts to hold it into place and then used a wrench to slowly force it all the way home. The key was to tighten 1 turn at a time on each bolt to keep it even until it was fully torqued. There's an alternate method that I've heard of which involves seating the oring in fhe valve body hole first, and then inserting the filter. I've heard that may work better, but have not personally tried. In any case, make sure you tighten evenly. Once you do that you should be able to suck more fluid in. Yes, fill with the engine running in park. When it starts to dribble, you may want to have a helper shift into R and D a few times to prime the circuits - - be safe and keep the parking brake on, wheels chocked, and preferably no one under the car. One other thing that helps get full fluid in the trans: put a level under the pan on the trans - - most of the time they slope down toward the rear a bit which will reduce the amount of fluid the pan holds (b/c fill hole is at the back) . You may need to jack up the back of the car a bit as most home garages have a sloping floor which can exacerbate this. I used a single jack under the hitch receiver and lifted it up a bit there, but wheels were still on the ground. Your fault code was from revving the engine without enough fluid. Clear the code when you are done filling it and you should be fine. All the fluids you're using look fine. Good luck.

[danish]

Thank you Brainz for detailed explanation. Will report back with results after following these instructions.

I am using lift at the shop, so hopefully it is balanced.

Thanks and happy 4th!

Danish

Edited July 3, 2016 by danish

[hahnmgh63]

All of what they said plus:  I don't know where this got started but I have the factory manual for the Cayenne and there is nowhere I see that it say's to jack the vehicle off the ground and let the wheels free-wheel while filling?  Sounds unsafe to me. The manual says to block the wheels so the vehicle does not move and make sure it is on a level surface. I fill the pan completely then start the vehicle while idling in neutral or Park and start filling again and monitor the temp. When the temp starts to climb I run it a couple of times through the gears once or twice but the manual states start the vehicle in Park and move the selector to Neutral when ready to check the fill level and temp. Plug it when the oil is dripping out and 40'C has been reached. If you live in a hot climate or warm summer you may need to pressure fill it to get to the right level before the temp is reached or you will be low on fluid. The factory filling device (VAG product) is just a gravity feed and slow. Once you fill the pan and start the vehicle you are still probably less than half full, a very low level, I wouldn't select drive in this low-level condition as there will be no lubrication to the clutch plates.

Edited July 3, 2016 by hahnmgh63

[Brainz006]

I do not advocate lifting the rear wheels off the ground, but you do want the trans to be as level a possible. As I dont have a lift, so I have done mine with the suspension locked in the highest position and then lifted a bit under the hitch receiver until the pan was level. There was enough suspension sag that the wheels remain firmly on the ground - - the body is lifted a few inches at the back, but it's less than half that in the center of the car. This offset the slope of the garage floor so the trans was level. Wheels were chocked and parking brake was set firmly. I suppose adding a couple jack stands might have made it marginally safer, but really there was nothing to fall. If that sounds too unsafe, I suppose one could put a 2x12 or two under the rear wheels. It's a moot point as OP has a lift in this case.

[hahnmgh63]

Although the book say's the vehicle should be in a level position, that does mean the pan will have a slight slope so I wouldn't jack up the rear end. Any of the ride height positions (if w/air suspension) should keep the vehicle level if the suspension is calibrated correctly.

[lewisweller]

Key to getting the last few litres in the system is to be in neutral with engine running. I found this out and 7 litres was the approx amount to refil for me. First attempt was only 4-5 litre, after some gear selecting and back to neutral, leaving it there allowed more fluid in.

[danish]

Thank you everyone for providing useful information.

 

O-ring for the filter was the culprit as suggested by Brainz.  It was broken when I removed the filter.  I put the new O-ring inside the valve body this time and pushed the filter neck in and tightened bolts as Brainz suggested, by hand first, and then torque wrenched one turn at a time per bolt.

 

Based on the recess on the neck of the filter and recent experience, I think putting the o-ring in the valve body hole is definitely more reliable, considering when I removed the filter for the first time, the original o-ring was not removed with the filter, but was left in the valve body hole.

 

I was able get about 8-9 quarts in.  I attached a 12 liter hand pump filled with 11 quarts and let it pump until the temp reached 40 C all the while changing gears a few times and keeping a bit longer at Park and Neutral.  It did drip at various positions but when I was done I had about 1.5 quarts left in the pump.  I think about a quart amount dripped during the refill.

 

Shifts are definitely smoother and can't even notice down or upshifts anymore.

 

Planning to do two more drain and refill without dropping the pan for the next two months to get remaining oil replaced.

 

Thanks

Danish

[Brainz006]

Congrats on the fix!

[Fruitypuddinpops]

Looking at doing my first transfilter change and wanting to do the diffs and transfer case as well.  How well does the diffs and transfer case work with the Redline 75w90? 

[danish]

For TC I used D4 ATF.  For diffs, I used 75w90.  They seem to be working fine on my CS.

 

Make sure you get the right type of oil.  Diffs and TC use different type of oil.

[hahnmgh63]

I'm using Redline 75w-90 in my front & rear Diffs, have been for above 50K ('06 CTTS w/85K). Also using Redline D4 in the transmission.