IMS Bearing Replacement Tensioner Question

[rockhouse66]

I have a 2004 C2 which is a 3 chain engine.  I have locked both cams on bank #1 (defined as the right hand bank viewed from the flywheel end.  I have removed the tensioner on the bottom of bank #1 and the IMS tensioner that is horizontal on bank #2.  Am I done prior to IMSB removal?

 

I ask because I have instructions found on the Internet which instruct to remove the A/C compressor and remove the tensioner below it.  Do I have a tensioner in this location on my 3 chain engine and, if so, should I remove it?

 

I am getting confused reading the online tutorials as most do not specify whether they are working on a 3 chain or 5 chain engine.

 

Also, any point in removing the green cam plugs from Bank #2 on my 3 chain engine? 

[rockhouse66]

BTW, it is the Bentley YouTube video that show removal of that additional tensioner, under the A/C compressor.  I don't think mine looks like that in that area, but would really appreciate some reassurance here.

[Ahsai]

As long as your turn the engine to TDC #1, put the cam lock tool in the bank 1 cams, then all you need to do is to remove those two tensioners you mentioned. Really no need to remove the one under the a/c compressor (very difficult). Yes, also no reason to remove the cam plugs on bank 2 unless you want to check the timing on that bank.

[JFP in PA]

As long as your turn the engine to TDC #1, put the cam lock tool in the bank 1 cams, then all you need to do is to remove those two tensioners you mentioned. Really no need to remove the one under the a/c compressor (very difficult). Yes, also no reason to remove the cam plugs on bank 2 unless you want to check the timing on that bank.

 

Duncan is correct; the only time you would need to pull the third tensioner would be if you cannot get the flange off after pulling the original two, and that very, very rarely happens.

[JFP in PA]

By-the-by, did you ever get your RMS straightened out?

[rockhouse66]

By-the-by, did you ever get your RMS straightened out?

Well, I wish I could say yes, but I am going to buy another one tomorrow and give it another go.  I installed it too deep, and was not willing to risk trying to fix it by reinstalling.  Too much work to access the darn thing to take any risks.

 

Thanks to you and Ashai for the replies on the tensioners.  Of course, I have already removed the A/C compressor.  It may have been the most challenging job I've done in the last 20 years or so.  I absolutely could not get that 3rd bolt in the rear until I removed the throttle body, pointed a flash light in from the other end of the head and poked a mirror into the space opened up by the throttle body removal.  Once I could actually see the bolt, I was able to get a wrench on it and remove it.  Good practice I guess.  I did find a mouse nest on top of the crankcase and removed it, so it wasn't a total waste!!

 

I already have the IMS flange removed and it came off no problem so I think I am good to go.  I have the puller in position to remove the old bearing and the new bearing and install tool are in the freezer.

Edited May 2, 2016 by rockhouse66

[Ahsai]

Yes, I use inspection mirror on that a/c compresaor bolt too. For MkII 996, there's also power steering metal lines blocking the tensioner and that's why I said it is difficult.

Anyway, looks like you're making good progress.

[Xena]

Hi, I'm a 911 newbie, just acquired a 2000 Millenium 996 with 50K miles.   I've read so much about the IMS and RMS that I'm stressing.  was originally considering the monitoring device, but have just about decided to go ahead and have the ceramic aftermarket just done (with RMS, might as well).  Looks to be just under $3K.  Feels like a lot, but I don't want this detracting from my enjoyment of the car.

Thoughts?

[JFP in PA]

Besides reassuring your feelings about the car, a quality retrofit will enhance its resale value as well.

[rockhouse66]

Since I started this thread, I will comment that I now have about 1500 miles on the work I did and all good.  I feel as though I have done all I could reasonably do preventatively to avoid an issue, so now I will just drive it and see what comes.  Well....then there is that **** timing chain. 

[judgejon]

On August 4, 2016 at 9:25 AM, Xena said:

Hi, I'm a 911 newbie, just acquired a 2000 Millenium 996 with 50K miles.   I've read so much about the IMS and RMS that I'm stressing.  was originally considering the monitoring device, but have just about decided to go ahead and have the ceramic aftermarket just done (with RMS, might as well).  Looks to be just under $3K.  Feels like a lot, but I don't want this detracting from my enjoyment of the car.

Thoughts?

Absolutely, positively, immediately do the IMS fix.  And whatever else you might think of while you're at it to save labor costs.  Clutch, RMS, etc.

The peace of mind you will experience will be worth the cost.  Trust everyone who says this, they are correct.

Consider the "permanent" oil feed install fix.  I'm considering when I redo the IMS retro in about another 20k miles or so.

Your IMS may in fact possibly never fail.  Mine was in great shape, and I have it sitting on the workbench in my garage.  Along with the chain tensioners from my old 911sc.

To reiterate, this is a mandatory fix.

Good thoughts,
 

[andrewjt19]

Don't mean to resurrect a somewhat old thread but I too have been researching and in the market for a 911. At this point any 911 ranging from 1999 to probably around 2005. I've read that the newer models are very hard to service the IMS and basically a complete motor rebuild. I guess my question is this...

If I buy a car that I'm uncertain to the IMS RMS upgrade or change, is there a way to tell if the car is in trouble from a buyer's perspective? Also when the dealership says they'll fix those issues what are they replacing the old parts with? Are they better or equivalent to the third party fixes or retrofits? Also can someone point me towards the best parts to accomplish the complete fix and retrofit? I live in the Pittsburgh area and of anyone else is around here and can point out a great service shop that would be helpful.... Thanks



1st POST :)

tApPeD fROM mY nExUs 6

[DBJoe996]

Really the best in the business - LNEngineering  http://lnengineering.com/

Use one of their Certified Installers and you will have peace of mind http://theimssolution.com/certified-installers/

Get the Solution

You cannot know the status of either the IMS bearing or RMS until the engine/transmission is dropped and separated and the old bearing and seal are removed.  The RMS may weep oil and there may be some leakage detected at the transmission/engine joint.  The LN Certified Installers will run a complete pre-qualification of the engine prior to changing out the IMS bearing.

Edited November 4, 2016 by DBJoe996

[JFP in PA]

11 hours ago, andrewjt19 said:

Don't mean to resurrect a somewhat old thread but I too have been researching and in the market for a 911. At this point any 911 ranging from 1999 to probably around 2005. I've read that the newer models are very hard to service the IMS and basically a complete motor rebuild. I guess my question is this...

If I buy a car that I'm uncertain to the IMS RMS upgrade or change, is there a way to tell if the car is in trouble from a buyer's perspective? Also when the dealership says they'll fix those issues what are they replacing the old parts with? Are they better or equivalent to the third party fixes or retrofits? Also can someone point me towards the best parts to accomplish the complete fix and retrofit? I live in the Pittsburgh area and of anyone else is around here and can point out a great service shop that would be helpful.... Thanks



1st POST :)

tApPeD fROM mY nExUs 6
 

 

Welcome to RennTech

Problem with the IMS is its lack of predictability.  By the time the engine shows signs that it is dying, it is already too late as the engine is full of finely ground metal and has to come apart.  By far, the better approach is to look for signs of failure (metal in the oil or filter, etc.) during a full PPI, and if none is found, plan on doing a proactive IMS retrofit as soon as you buy the car.  As mentioned elsewhere, LN Engineering lead the market in the having the proven best IMS retrofit solution's to put your mind and ease.

[andrewjt19]

Thank you fellas for the response. Any idea what the cost from a certified installer ranges from for the retro to the complete fix? Also what does the dealership use to fix the issues? They quoted me a cost of around $3500. Are they just replacing it with the same defective parts?

tApPeD fROM mY nExUs 6

[JFP in PA]

Many dealerships to not do IMS retrofits as Porsche's "official position" is that you cannot change out the bearing without taking the engine apart; and many of those that do take the engine apart replace the shaft with one that uses the oversized non serviceable bearing.  So I would not consider a dealer unless they are on LN Engineering's list of installers.

 

$3K should get you an LN Engineering hybrid bearing, a new RMS, and a complete new clutch assembly, probably with some money left over.

[DBJoe996]

I concur with the $3K cost of retrofit and clutch assembly.  There are another couple of recommended things to add to the list while the engine is out - consider the age of the car (16 years) and service record.  It is very easy to replace the AOS, spark plugs and coil packs while the engine is out, but a real PITA to do with the engine in the car.  Also have the O-rings under the oil cooler replaced as well.  Another item(s) that do not age well and can give some trouble is the oil filler pipe, plastic vacuum tank and coolant tank.  These items are relatively inexpensive and doing them while the engine is out is highly recommended.  You could also throw in new motor mounts and transmission mount inserts.

[rockhouse66]

1 hour ago, DBJoe996 said:

I concur with the $3K cost of retrofit and clutch assembly.  There are another couple of recommended things to add to the list while the engine is out - consider the age of the car (16 years) and service record.  It is very easy to replace the AOS, spark plugs and coil packs while the engine is out, but a real PITA to do with the engine in the car.  Also have the O-rings under the oil cooler replaced as well.  Another item(s) that do not age well and can give some trouble is the oil filler pipe, plastic vacuum tank and coolant tank.  These items are relatively inexpensive and doing them while the engine is out is highly recommended.  You could also throw in new motor mounts and transmission mount inserts.

Those are all good suggestions but you don't have to drop the engine to do the IMS/RMS and clutch.  I'm sure you know this but didn't want andrewjt19 to think otherwise.

 

Replacing the water pump and serpentine belt would be other items that are worth doing and can be done with the engine in the car.

 

Of course, if you buy a car with complete service records you can make judgement calls on whether it is time to do these PM items or not.  Lacking those records, it would be prudent to do as many as you can afford to do soon after purchase to start building a service record for the car and head off potential problems.

[andrewjt19]

Awesome answers. Thank you. I am excited yet nervous about the purchase and just want to make an educated decision.

tApPeD fROM mY nExUs 6