CEL - P1325 Camshaft adjustment bank 1

[talkenrain]

Thanks for the picture, The doesn't look bad at all. Some good news. While pondering exactly where the solenoid was, I disconnected pin #3 from the DME and connected a light bulb to the DME and B+. I then ran the Durametric test and the bulb works as expected ("start" triggers the bulb on, "stop" triggers the bulb off). Now going try to find that solenoid (at least i know what color the wires are). 

[Ahsai]

That's good news. The bank 2 solenoid connector is right below the a/c compressor. Should be able to access it easily with the airbox removed.

[talkenrain]

3 hours ago, Ahsai said:

The bank 2 solenoid connector is right below the a/c compressor. Should be able to access it easily with the airbox removed.

Had just removed the airbox when I got your message. That was just about the funnest moment of the day. 

Edited June 27, 2017 by talkenrain

[talkenrain]

Is this it? (pict is from the bottom passenger side looking up and towards the rear of the car, between exhaust system components)

Edited June 27, 2017 by talkenrain

[talkenrain]

So I managed to find the connector. I ohm-ed it out and it's only about 1.7 ohms. That would explain the very high current reading. So from what I read this is not so simple of a replacement? It looks as if 2 bolts hold it in place but other posts seem to say it's a much bigger job requiring a special tool to hold the cam in place? Am i reading it correctly?

 

I'm not afraid of jumping into it if needed, i just want to understand so I can set aside the proper time and make sure i'm prepared to do it right the first time.

[Ahsai]

Bad news is what you said. All correct. Most ppl said it's easier overall if engine is removed but it could also be done in situ.

 

Good news is at least you know for sure it's the solenoid and you can explain everything. Basically the somewhat shorted solenoid overloaded the transistor and the heat caused the joint to de-solder.

[Ahsai]

Yes, big job that involves removing the cam cover.

[talkenrain]

I'm going to call around to find out how many hours to have a shop do the work, then decide. I'd really like to do it myself but don't have the setup for pulling the engine. I'll do some more reading tonight.

 

If you can point me to some links of others that have done it at home, that would be appreciated. If the engine has to come out, it may be time for a new clutch, chain slides and maybe IMS.

 

Thanks again for all your help Ahsai. You've earned a great reputation and in my book, Number One !!!

 

 

[Ahsai]

Glad to help! Come to think about it, it may not be that bad. I don't recall any threads that document the process though.

 

You may be able to do it in situ. You can always undo the engine mounts and lower the engine a few inches to gain more space. You need to remove the right muffler, the muffler support bracket and the header. Then with the engine locked at TDC and a special tool to hold down the cams, you can then open the cam cover and replace that solenoid (only held by two bolts). Then reseal the cam cover (needs some workmanship).

 

How many miles on the engine and does it have a double row IMSB?

[talkenrain]

Im not sure when they started/stopped the double row IMSB but it's  an early 2000 with 93k miles on it. Original IMS as far as I know. Has been a relitivly low cost to maintain weekend driver, although I hadn't had a lot of time for it till now (I recently retired). I purchased it about 3 years ago from a friend.

 

So now I'm watching my pennies and have the time to work on it. It's not my only car so I'm ok with it garaged for a while and as I said, I'm not afraid of a project, as long as it's within my ability to do it without an overhead lift.

[Ahsai]

With 93k miles, I agree if you drop the engine, there will be a lot of items to address. Just to fix this bank 2 solenoid though, I don't think you need a lift. You only need the rear jack points to be on jack stands, then support and jack the engine from the bottom, lower it for a few inches to create a lot more space.

[talkenrain]

I have a few hydrologic floor jacks so no problem there. I've pulled the rear bumper heat shield and exhaust before with no problems. Replaced shark plug tubes and that sort of work. My concerns are resealing the valve cover and in general, a fear of getting into it then discovering I don't have all that's needed (enough hands/tools/patience) to complete the job. I was hoping I'd find some examples of other documented successful home replacements. I just want to understand clearly what the job is. I ran out of time today but will keep searching then deside how to proceed...

[talkenrain]

I just got a call back from the local dealer after a day to develop a quote. He starts by saying the solenoid can be replaced without pulling the engine. He then went on to studder the words, about $1600 labor and about $500 for the part. I asked him to repeat what he'd said. I said I don't need the entire VarioCam asymbly, just the solinoid replaced. He said yes, that's correct. Said it look about like a "D" sized battery, about what I'd expect it to be. Can this be correct? I asked him to email the quote so I'll have the list.

 

If the engine can stay in, i think I'm going to start pulling it apart tomorrow... but $500 for the solenoid seems crazy high... I'm thinking, if I have nothing to loose, maybe I should use some old school techniques to try to clear the short in the solenoid winding before pulling it apart.?.!

[Ahsai]

$1600 labor sounds about right for removing and resealing the cam cover by the dealer. The part is $500 MSRP  Part #10 here

http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-parts/hardparts.php?dir=996-99-05&section=103-10

 

You can get it online for $200 here

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?partnumber=PO-99660590200&utm_source=google&utm_medium=nonpaid&utm_campaign=frooglePN&utm_term=99660590200&crossref=99660590200&gclid=Cj0KEQjwp83KBRC2kev0tZzExLkBEiQAYxYXOteySWixt1OPB1FvDIPnYnE6Waam6bQg2TaNfsdPkjgaAv-q8P8HAQ

 

The actuator (wtih the solenoid) is $1,000! (Part #7)

 

"some old school techniques to try to clear the short in the solenoid winding before pulling it apart" <- How? I'm curious.

 

Edited June 28, 2017 by Ahsai

[Ahsai]

Also make sure you have these tools before opening up the cam cover.

http://www.ewktool.com/porsche-986-996-engine-timing-camshaft tool

[JFP in PA]

7 minutes ago, Ahsai said:

$1600 labor sounds about right for removing and resealing the cam cover by the dealer. The part is $500 MSRP  Part #10 here

http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-parts/hardparts.php?dir=996-99-05&section=103-10

 

You can get it online for $200 here

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?partnumber=PO-99660590200&utm_source=google&utm_medium=nonpaid&utm_campaign=frooglePN&utm_term=99660590200&crossref=99660590200&gclid=Cj0KEQjwp83KBRC2kev0tZzExLkBEiQAYxYXOteySWixt1OPB1FvDIPnYnE6Waam6bQg2TaNfsdPkjgaAv-q8P8HAQ

 

The actuator (wtih the solenoid) is $1,000! (Part #7)

 

"some old school techniques to try to clear the short in the solenoid winding before pulling it apart" <- How? I'm curious.

 

 

Duncan,  current retail for 996-605-902-00 from Porsche is more like $393 ( Sunset Porsche); but I would agree that around $1600 is a fair price for the job as it requires both special tooling and some working knowledge as well.

[Ahsai]

John, yes I saw that on Sunset but autohausaz seems to offer the same (genuine) for $205 hence my link above.

[JFP in PA]

1 minute ago, Ahsai said:

John, yes I saw that on Sunset but autohausaz seems to offer the same (genuine) for $205 hence my link above.

 

My comment was directed at his dealer quote for $1600, who is probably hitting him at full list, which is around $520, or about a third of the quote.  A DIY'er can pretty much always beat the commonly quoted dealer list, and even beat Sunset's web price, which is usually pretty good.  But then they need special tooling at a couple hundred bucks, a place to do it with the necessary tool kit, etc.  All depends upon how talented and determined the OP is, but the dealer price is not overly out of line.  He might also want to get a second quote from an quality indie shop; could easily save some money over the dealer quote.

[Ahsai]

Gotcha. Actually his dealer's quote $1,600 was for labor only.

 

Definitely need tools, skills and knowledge. It's not like replacing a spark plug :)

[JFP in PA]

28 minutes ago, Ahsai said:

Definitely need tools, skills and knowledge. It's not like replacing a spark plug :)

 

Exactly my point.  For someone with time and a well equipped facility to do in a leisurely manner, $500 parts they can get for perhaps half that elsewhere, and $1600 of labor seem almost outrageous.  For someone that has never done this, has to get it done in a confined time frame because they need the car for work, and has only minimal facilities at their disposal; the numbers don't look so bad, particularly if they can drop the car off in the morning and pick it up in the afternoon.  All a matter of perspective......

[talkenrain]

Thank you both for your feedback. I'm now properly calibrated. I've decided to move forward on this at home. I have the time and believe I have most tools and basic knowledge. I'll order the part and cam tool this evening after a old school try at opening the  solenoid short.

 

My old school theory:

Typically, a coil short is caused by only a few conditions. Friction, Heat or a contaminant in the circuit. The coil its self is typicaly lacquer   covered copper winding with a pin down the center that moves from the electro magnetic field genorated when the coil is presented with a voltage across the winding.

 

If the problem is friction, the moving component would have to be out of alignment and rubbing the coils (causing the short and probably no longer moving or have very limited movement) this must not be the case because it still move completely in and out (can see the engine timing change for the  brief duration of the tests). 

 

If the problem was heat and the coil insulation was compromised, it would most likely be a partial short if a few winding (maybe 4 ohms or something grater then the reading I got). If it was a complete short of the coil it's self, it would not produce enough electromagnetic field to move the solenoid at all. This is not the case here either as it still moves with a low voltage across the coil.

 

This leaves the last option of some contaminate that is in parallel with the coil (anything from a flake or bad solder connection or a strand of wire either in the solinod housing that is shorting across the intire coil windings. This would display the almost dead short I'm seeing but with enough current is still able to produce enough voltage across the coil to pull the solinode in (when more than 8 amp are applied for a brief second). I'm sure this amount of current is being limited by the DME.

 

The (nothing to loose) option is to use an external power source to try to effectively zap the short. Something like a fairly large charged capacitor (charges to maybe 18 to 24 volts) will deliver very high current for a short period of time. If the short is a flake or fray wire, the higher current will burn it and open the short without being high enough voltage to damage the coil windings. If the short is truly the coil and the high current compleatly burns the coil windings the worst case scenario is the solinod no longer moves at all and world require changing.

 

So at worst, I'm back to changing the solenoid, right?

 

edit: sorry for the typos. Wrote while at the gym, on my phone. Not a good combo and sometimes auto correct is not my friend...

 

Edited June 29, 2017 by talkenrain

[Ahsai]

Intesting theory about using a capcitor to zap the short.

 

Re the mechanical work, here's a good link. You only need to perform a subset of these steps (hopefully obvious). I would add that cleanliness and attention to details are critical for a successful outcome.

 

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Porsche-996-997-Carrera/16-ENGINE-Camshaft_Swap_and_Valve_Train_Repair/16-ENGINE-Camshaft_Swap_and_Valve_Train_Repair.htm

[talkenrain]

Thanks again for all the help. I'm motivated in part because I haven't seen a lot posted on this (maybe not a common failure). If it's something that can be done at home I think posting the experance and progress for others has great value. So if you don't mind, I'd like to keep this open here to its conclusion.

 

My main fear is causing more damage (like snapping a bolt off or something along those lines. A simple (time consuming) disassembly, replace and reassembly should not be a big deal. I've got the time so why not. Planning on lots of photos and updates.

 

I started the disassembly today. Have not gotten very far (limited time today) Just the airbox and serpentine belt removed today (along with a few misc items). Jacks and tools are in position Friday will be the official start. I'm ordering the solenoid and Cam tool  this evening (thanks for the great links). I know I'm going to need replacement gaskets and other bits. Is there a link for the engine components with part numbers. I need to get all the parts I'll need moving in my direction.

[Ahsai]

Sounds like a good plan! Also get thia

 

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?partnumber=DB-07589062376&utm_source=google&utm_medium=nonpaid&utm_campaign=frooglePN&utm_term=07589062376&crossref=07589062376&gclid=CjwKEAjwytLKBRCX547gve7EsE4SJAD3IZV6Z1YKwLaFLHeegZmor_0AaN_2oeRYy02rBT5AvwFiARoCboXw_wcB

 

For parts diagram, use autoatlanta.com

[talkenrain]

Just a quick update. To all those in fear of wrenching there own. Let me say what a joy it's been working on my own. Exploring the "whats" and "whys", you will learn and appreciate the engineering thats gone into your car so much more when you know exactly whats going on under and within the stunning body.

 

That being said, I've skinned a few knuckles and have had a few moments where i made some new 4 letter words.

 

I am making progress. I pulled the bumper, heat shield and muffler just for more room to work. I so far have not twisted off any bolt heads (although thought I would with the muffler clamp) or have caused any damage at all. Being careful to take lots of photos as I take thing apart. Again taking my time as the parts have not arrived yet.  Here are a few picts where i've stopped for today.

 

Will I need to remove the muffler bracket to remove the cam cover?