1999 Porsche 996 - Bleeding Brakes on a car with Traction Control (new

[Poze123]

Hi all

 

Well, Ive had some good trouble free motoring over the last 4-5 months, and now come across my next problem.

 

So my 1999 3.4 996 failed its British MOT/Road test, it had corrosion on two of the hard brake lines.

 

So I spent Saturday removing and fitting 3 new brass brake lines from the unit thats mounted behind the left side headlight, under the left front arch liner and through to the rear left wheel - 3 lines in total. I also fitted 4 new flexible brake lines, 1 on each corner.

 

I used my power bleeder set at 20psi and finished it of with my Wife pressing the brake pedal whilst i did the standard final checks at each caliper - the brake pedal was nice and firm.

 

 

Went to test ride the car tonight and the pedal was firm, but as soon as i started the car, the pedal went to the floor. I rebled the system again, no leaks and the pedals firm with the casr Off, but soon as its started the pedal is very soft. Pump it a few times and its hard, but leave it 10 seconds and its to the floor again.

 

 

**

I've read on here that cars with Traction Control ore PSM need to be hooked upto a Porsche System Tester 2 in order to open valves for the bleed to also bleed the ABS?   Is this all true , is there away around this/spending cash at Porsche/Indy, can I do anything about this myself or do I simply have to take the car into Porsche?

 

 

Any help or advice is greatly appreciated as I simply have exhausted my entire car budget for the next few months. ****..

 

Cheers,

Paul

Bournemouth-UK.

[Poze123]

My car just has Traction Control and ABS, no PSM function.

I have a Durametric lead, but it dosent have an option to help bleed brakes...

[wizard]

Hello.

 

The Durametric should activate the ABS module for bleeding purposes.

 

Have you the latest Durametric software ?

[Poze123]

Hello Wizard

Good morning, thanks for replying - I really need peoples help and advice.

 

Im at work now so I cant check the software,  but I think it said Durametric 6 on the Icon on my laptop. Its old software for sure though.

 

The internet says I need to use Porsche System Tester 2 --- but do you know if I can download newer software for my Durametric cable? if I can get that and do the job, it would mean that I can get the car on the road this week rather than maybe 2 months time (the 996 is my toy and I'm simply out of money to spend on it - hence I do every job myself).

 

Any advice on the software Is welcome.

 

 

I just spoke to a garage and he thinks that I should perservere and try and bleed the brakes more using 2 people, 1 pressing pedal and 1 opening valves, he Thinks I could get away Without using the software....

 

Many thanks,

Paul

[wizard]

Hi.

The latest version is 6.5.1.9.

I'm no expert, but if you've drained the system of brake fluid, I believe that you'll need to activate the ABS module.

Maybe an e-mail to Durametric, although the matrix on their website shows the ABS module on the 996 being able to be activated with their system.

[Poze123]

~Hi all , just an update:

 

Seems that its the Secondary brake system that I have problems with - an air in the system - ABS side.

I spoke to Porsche and a local independant garage  for some advice.

 

Both say that they Don't use the PST2 system, both just use the 2 man normal brake bleed method by doing the normal primary circuit then different technique on the secondary side

 

**What Porsche themselves suggested to me was to remove the front left headlamp to access a metal block that the hardbrake lines connect to (I cant remember what he said the name was called). He said to loosen the 11mm nuts on the ends of these brake bipes (brake unions) a little until fluid slightly comes out - this should help any trapped air escape. Then to use the 2 man technique to  bleed both nipples on each caliper again.

 

He says that this technique works well at Porsche for getting rid of trapped air after a major component on the braking system has been replaced. He does this with the engine off.

 

 

I just wanted to mention this on here incase anyone has done this or can offer any extra knowledge or advice. The Independent can come to me with a PST2 tester for £150GBP but again, he said that they have never used it on brake bleeding in the past.

 

Cheers,

Paul

[JFP in PA]

The Durametric system will activate your ABS system during a bleed/flush to remove any trapped air, which is always an issue after draining the system, eliminating the need for two people.  I am also not completely convinced that using two people would work on a car that had been fully or even partially drained, as activating the ABS system with a diagnostic tool activates components that pumping the pedal simply will not do.

[RFM]

As cited above, make it easy on yourself and use a diagnostic tool for this exercise.

[Poze123]

Hey

Ok will do, thank you for all the advice everyone.

 

I just looked at my cable and its marketed as a PIWIS, when you load the software its Durametric 6. Does mention the ABS etc but only seems to have the option to read/delete codes and give live data, so I I think its the cheap poor version, so no use to me.

 

I'll have to wait until mid march and book it in then. Least its only 4 weeks to wait!

 

Many thanks,

 

Paul

[JFP in PA]

Hey

Ok will do, thank you for all the advice everyone.

 

I just looked at my cable and its marketed as a PIWIS, when you load the software its Durametric 6. Does mention the ABS etc but only seems to have the option to read/delete codes and give live data, so I I think its the cheap poor version, so no use to me.

 

I'll have to wait until mid march and book it in then. Least its only 4 weeks to wait!

 

Many thanks,

 

Paul

 

Your "PIWIS" sounds like one of the many Durametric system clones sold on the internet.   A real Durametric system would give you the option to activate the ABS system for bleeding/flushing purposes.  You can always get one of the real Durametric systems and do it yourself sooner.

[Poze123]

Hi all

 

Just an update:

 

I'm going to buy a genuine  Durametric  cable, it costs GBP £367 so its a massive investment for me personally. I'm going to order this Friday as its pay day.

 

I just want to be sure that there's no other way of bleeding the secondary circuit on a Traction Control 996? for example, letting out air on the pump unit? just an idea, but maybe a stupid idea - if there's a way of Not paying £367 then I'm keen to know it (a Porsche independent will charge £150 for a 1 hour visit - but i'm planning on keeping the car a long time).

 

If not, I'll buy a Durametric and film the bleed process for YouTube etc :)

 

Many thanks,

Paul

[JFP in PA]

The factory procedure to get air out of these systems is by pressure flushing them with the system activated by a diagnostic computer (dealers use a real PIWIS which is a lease only item and will set you back just shy of twenty thousand dollars for the first year, which makes the Durametric system a relative steal by comparison).  Once air gets into the ABS/PSM control network, it is very difficult to impossible to get out without doing it this way

[Poze123]

Hello all

 

So I've got my brand new £367 Durametric cable, looks very nice.

 

But i spent 2 hours using it, using V6 software and basically i dont think its working correctly. I use the function "Booster Pump" which is the function that's for the Traction Control bleeding - it states to run this function for no more than 30 seconds every 5 mins, and for the pump to be heard on not all wheels.

 

I didn't hear the pump at all.

 

When I ran the function on the Durametric cable, it does flash when you start and the led goes static when you stop the function.  The software states that "Command sent".

 

But just odd that I don't hear a pump operate.

 

Pedal feels the same. 3/4 down with the engine running.

 

I do feel disappointed, but I have emailed Duramtetric for their advice. V5 of the software installs but does not recongise that  the cable is plugged in.

 

 

Theres nothing on YouTube and only negative comments on the net, so I just don't know - its causing me a lot of stress to be honest.

 

Any advice welcome :)

[JFP in PA]

Hello all

 

So I've got my brand new £367 Durametric cable, looks very nice.

 

But i spent 2 hours using it, using V6 software and basically i dont think its working correctly. I use the function "Booster Pump" which is the function that's for the Traction Control bleeding - it states to run this function for no more than 30 seconds every 5 mins, and for the pump to be heard on not all wheels.

 

I didn't hear the pump at all.

 

When I ran the function on the Durametric cable, it does flash when you start and the led goes static when you stop the function.  The software states that "Command sent".

 

But just odd that I don't hear a pump operate.

 

Pedal feels the same. 3/4 down with the engine running.

 

I do feel disappointed, but I have emailed Duramtetric for their advice. V5 of the software installs but does not recongise that  the cable is plugged in.

 

 

Theres nothing on YouTube and only negative comments on the net, so I just don't know - its causing me a lot of stress to be honest.

 

Any advice welcome :)

 

 

Did you get to this screen:

 

[Poze123]

Hello Jeff

I want to post photos, but I don't think I have the access on my Rentech account.

So I shall describe:

 

I haven't got the exact page you have, mines a 996 with Traction Control only, no PSM.

When I select my "ABS 5,3" folder on the software, I then get these options under Activations:

 

1) Return Pump (Start / Stop)

2)Switch Over Valve 1 (start/stop)

3) Switch over valve 2 (etc)

4) Booster Pump   - * this specifically mentions Traction Control- it states "Applies only to models with traction control, Important: Open the bleed screw before starting. Cycle brake pedal while bleeding. It is normal to hear the pump on same wheels and not others"*

5) Booster-pressure valve 1

6) Booster-pressure valve 2

7) ABS Warning light

8) Information Light

[Poze123]

On the intial setup screen (this is all on V6 of the software), I have lots of options but I'm choosing these:

 

*Porsche 996

*Engine - ME5.2.2 for 1998-1999

*Transmission (I'm choosing nothing as this only shows 2 types of Tiptromnic- mines manual)

*DSC/ABS - ABS/DSC/PSM 5.3 for C2 through 2001

*Instrument cluster - K03 fir 1998-2001

*Roof Type - Cabrio

[Poze123]

I have also just spent an hour downloading V5  and all the drivers, a fresh download with all the Microsoft net, all as per the instructions.

 

 

 

I was just expecting to press that Start button on the Booster Pump function, it would then whirr and pump and i'd just do each wheel, clean up and put the wheels back on.  I don't know if the pump is just ultra silent, but now I search on the net, lots of people also mention that nothing seems to happen.....

 

:)

[JFP in PA]

OK. I understand where you are.  The pumps are very quiet, but not silent; they should also get warm if they are running (which is why they don't want you to run them for long periods).  I would try to make the pump run (don't try and actually bleed the system) while touching it to see if it gets warm.  At the end of the day, the pump could be bad.

[Poze123]

Thanks Jeff for the reply, much appreciated.

 

Is this particular pump underneath the brake reservoir/master cylinder? I thought I read that there were two pumps in the same area, mines a Right hand drive car.

 

Also - I just went outside , despite it being 1145pm, to check the v5 software --- basically the software loads but still states "Cable not connected", I don't know if you have any ideas? if not , i'll check the internet tomo and then email Durametric if I cant locate anything. I wasn't sure if the v5 SW may be better as this is an older car.

 

just an idea anyway, so I can cover all basis.

 

 

I'll check that pump tomo eve once I locate its location. Least I should be able to feel it vibrate.

Thank you,

Paul

[JFP in PA]

Thanks Jeff for the reply, much appreciated.

 

Is this particular pump underneath the brake reservoir/master cylinder? I thought I read that there were two pumps in the same area, mines a Right hand drive car.

 

Also - I just went outside , despite it being 1145pm, to check the v5 software --- basically the software loads but still states "Cable not connected", I don't know if you have any ideas? if not , i'll check the internet tomo and then email Durametric if I cant locate anything. I wasn't sure if the v5 SW may be better as this is an older car.

 

just an idea anyway, so I can cover all basis.

 

 

I'll check that pump tomo eve once I locate its location. Least I should be able to feel it vibrate.

Thank you,

Paul

 

We don't see that many traction control cars here, PSM was much more common so I will be going from distant memory.  That said, and if memory serves, on a rear wheel drive car the pump is on the opposite side from the master cylinder; while on a four wheel drive car it is next to the master cylinder.

[Poze123]

Hello Jeff

Good evening!

 

Ive checked the motor unit, it is under the bonnet, to the left by the left headlamp (rigfht hand drive car ). Just removed the cover, it all looks mint and I checked the plug/wiring and all looks ok. Ran trhe software on the Durametric and i couldnt feel the pump at all, so itrs either very very quiet or just isnt affected by the Durametric.

 

Trhe Durametric does states "Command sent" and something like" Command ok" or something to that effect.

 

I rebled the brakes, got a bit more air out using the pressure bleeder at 20psi, then rebled again, using the Durametric and with the key on of course (just incase it was working). Pedal still felt similiar, maybe a bit better.

 

Test drove for about 20mins, I managed to get the at least one wheel on the front to lock up on about 5-8 occasions, the discs were pretty hot by the end of 10-15 mins drive  and burning rubber each time i locked a front wheel (felt like 1 wheel was locking).

 

Took the car home and just bled the outer nipples again using the pressure bleeder and my foot, got some air out for sure.

 

Had another test drive, feels a bit better, but the pedal still goes pretty low. the Brakes do work well, just the pedal is very excessive still.

 

 

Rebled again and did a final test drive for the night.

 

 

Question - when i locked up the front wheels, should i see the light come on? or how do i know if the ABS is working? i was doing generally 30mph then hard on the brakes with a small lock/skid just before it stopped, so not a long skid.

 

 

I dont know if any of this info above adds any value?

 

I spoke to Porsche today and they also suggested driving around to activate the ABS.  They also suggested that sometimes the pedal travels to far anda rubber boot or seal on the master cylinder can tear- I dont know if this is viewable if i remove the plastic cover over the master cylinder? (Ive not taken that cover of before).

 

 

I cant do any work on the car tomo except remove this plastic cover if needed, the wifes annoyed a bit so I've got a car free night! but Thursday night i can take a look.

 

 

On a final note, i've booked the car into my local garage on Friday morning to do the Drop Links , he's also going to have a look at the brakes and probably use his professional type bleeder tool on it.

 

Cheers,

Paul

[JFP in PA]

The ABS light on your dash is a "malfunction indicator light" or MIL; it should only come on if the system malfunctions, but it should light up when you turn the key on but do not start the car.

 

The rubber boot that Porsche was describing is where the rod connecting the pedal goes into the master cylinder up under the dash, you will not be able to see it from inside the boot.