P2189 after serpentine belt change

[5thlilpiggy]

Hi guys

 

About a month ago I changed the serpentine belt on our 2004 CTT.  A couple of days afterwards, I got codes P0234 and P2189.  I went back in, and realized I didnt connect the 2 evap hoses (shown in image) tight enough, and they had popped loose.

 

 

After I reconnected properly, the CEL went away after a couple of days.  Last week (about 2 weeks later) the same 2 codes came back.  I cleared them, and CEL light came on again a day later.  Because there was no noticeable loss in performance (no weird idle and still got over 0,6 bar when punching it) we kept driving it until I had a chance to delve in more.  

 

Today I went in.  The 2 hoses are still firmly connected.  Scanning now revealed only the P2189.  Is there something else I could have missed on reassembly or is this unrelated entirely?

 

Thanks!

[JFP in PA]

P2189 Oxygen Sensing Adaptation, Idle Range, Bank 2 (RKAT2) - Above Limit

 

Possible fault cause:

- Incorrect main charge signal

- Intake air system leaking

- Fuel pressure too low

- Volume supply of fuel pump too low

- Mechanical fault in injection valves

- PCV valve leaking

- Cap of oil filler neck leaking

- Leaks in exhaust system

- EVAP canister purge valve mechanically faulty (hangs open)

- EVAP canister purge valve output stage faults

 

I would start with the easy ones - the oil filler cap and the PCV.

[5thlilpiggy]

 

I would start with the easy ones - the oil filler cap and the PCV.

 

Thanks for the reply!

 

The PCV valve is the hockey-puck-like thing on the front of the drivers valve cover?

 

Just FYI, the EVAP purge valve shouldnt be it as I replaced it not long ago to cure hard starts after gassing up.

[5thlilpiggy]

Would not tightening the clamp enough just after the MAF cause this?  

 

Since the MAF body is plastic, I didnt want to go too tight, but when I went in today it was barely a half turn from being pretty loose.  

[JFP in PA]

Would not tightening the clamp enough just after the MAF cause this?  

 

Since the MAF body is plastic, I didnt want to go too tight, but when I went in today it was barely a half turn from being pretty loose.  

 

Possibly, reset the code and see if it returns.

[5thlilpiggy]

 

Would not tightening the clamp enough just after the MAF cause this?  

 

Since the MAF body is plastic, I didnt want to go too tight, but when I went in today it was barely a half turn from being pretty loose.  

 

Possibly, reset the code and see if it returns.

 

 

Light came back yesterday. Assuming it is the same code, I will check the PCV diaphragm.

[5thlilpiggy]

The diaphragm seems fine, but I cracked the PCV cover along the vertical nub when I was removing it.  Im gonna fix it with some high temp epoxy unless thats a bad idea?

[JFP in PA]

I'm not fan of fixing cracked parts unless there are no replacements.  Usually, they just crack again.

[5thlilpiggy]

I'm not fan of fixing cracked parts unless there are no replacements.  Usually, they just crack again.

 

Agreed.

 

I just did it in this case cause the crack is only stressed during removal or install and not during "use".  Also, the replacement cap is like $130.

 

I used JBWeld Plastic Bonder FWIW .  

 

Ill get a new oil cap gasket, clear the code, and report back.

[5thlilpiggy]

Was hard to find an OEM gasket in stock, so I just got the whole oil cap.

 

Cleared the code (P2189 again) yesterday.  Will see what happens.

[5thlilpiggy]

Light is back...what should I check next?

[JFP in PA]

Light is back...what should I check next?

 

Go back to my #2 post above and go down the list, all the possibles are there.

[5thlilpiggy]

 

Light is back...what should I check next?

 

Go back to my #2 post above and go down the list, all the possibles are there.

 

 

Sorry, that was pretty obvious I suppose :)

 

From what I can find, fuel pressure should be 4 BAR (58 psi)?

 

Incorrect main charge signal = MAF?  Should I give it and its connector a cleaning?

[JFP in PA]

 

 

Light is back...what should I check next?

 

Go back to my #2 post above and go down the list, all the possibles are there.

 

 

Sorry, that was pretty obvious I suppose :)

 

From what I can find, fuel pressure should be 4 BAR (58 psi)?

 

Incorrect main charge signal = MAF?  Should I give it and its connector a cleaning?

 

 

I'm away from the shop at the moment, but I think that fuel pressure is close if not correct.

 

I think they are referring to your charging system, but cleaning the MAF never hurts.

[5thlilpiggy]

 

I'm away from the shop at the moment, but I think that fuel pressure is close if not correct.

 

I think they are referring to your charging system, but cleaning the MAF never hurts.

 

 

Sounds good.  Ill check/clean those and report back.

 

R.e. the PCV valve.  If it isnt hissing and the diaphragm did not have any tears that is not the problem right?

[JFP in PA]

PCV can become full of crud internally over time, requiring that they either be cleaned out or replaced.

[5thlilpiggy]

PCV can become full of crud internally over time, requiring that they either be cleaned out or replaced.

 

Ok, there was definitely no crud in there, just light deposits/staining.

 

Fuel pressure on both pumps was ~60 psi.  Though P2189 is a drivers side code (I think?) I tested on the much more accessible passenger side port.  It looked like the two sides of the rail were just forked off the same stream, so I assume this was fine? 

 

I have not cleaned the MAF yet...getting it out of the lower tube is such a PITA, and you didnt think that was the culprit anyway, so Im waiting on that attempt.

 

Can I test for vaccum leaks by spraying electrical cleaner (since it is plastic safe) on all the PCV/evap hoses and looking for jumps in idle?

[JFP in PA]

 

PCV can become full of crud internally over time, requiring that they either be cleaned out or replaced.

 

Ok, there was definitely no crud in there, just light deposits/staining.

 

Fuel pressure on both pumps was ~60 psi.  Though P2189 is a drivers side code (I think?) I tested on the much more accessible passenger side port.  It looked like the two sides of the rail were just forked off the same stream, so I assume this was fine? 

 

I have not cleaned the MAF yet...getting it out of the lower tube is such a PITA, and you didnt think that was the culprit anyway, so Im waiting on that attempt.

 

Can I test for vaccum leaks by spraying electrical cleaner (since it is plastic safe) on all the PCV/evap hoses and looking for jumps in idle?

 

 

Yes, you can use cleaner for this, but be careful as it is flammable.

 

I would also check the voltages on the O2 sensors, just be sure the sensor is functioning properly.

[5thlilpiggy]

 

 

PCV can become full of crud internally over time, requiring that they either be cleaned out or replaced.

 

Ok, there was definitely no crud in there, just light deposits/staining.

 

Fuel pressure on both pumps was ~60 psi.  Though P2189 is a drivers side code (I think?) I tested on the much more accessible passenger side port.  It looked like the two sides of the rail were just forked off the same stream, so I assume this was fine? 

 

I have not cleaned the MAF yet...getting it out of the lower tube is such a PITA, and you didnt think that was the culprit anyway, so Im waiting on that attempt.

 

Can I test for vaccum leaks by spraying electrical cleaner (since it is plastic safe) on all the PCV/evap hoses and looking for jumps in idle?

 

 

Yes, you can use cleaner for this, but be careful as it is flammable.

 

I would also check the voltages on the O2 sensors, just be sure the sensor is functioning properly.

 

 

Ok, I doused the PCV valve and every hose around the front/top of the engine with electrical cleaner twice.

 

The first time it was just me listening to the engine bay.  I didnt notice anything.  The second time I had my wife watching the tach.  She said it didnt move the entire time...just sits at a little under 600.

 

I will check 02 voltages tomorrow.

[Ahsai]

Also log the fuel trims on BOTH banks, both FRA and TRA. Since your code is only for bank 2 at idle, if the fuel trims also show problems on the bank 2 (as opposed to bank 1 is also bad but not bad enough to trip the codes for bank 1 yet), you can focus more on bank 2 specific causes and narrow down the list.

[5thlilpiggy]

Apologies as I have not checked the fuel trims yet.

 

I did however notice something when I was changing the oil today...pics attached.

 

The first two show the two PCV hoses covered with oil from underneath.  Notice those are essentially the only things with oil on them.

 

The last two attempt to show what looks to be the source of the oil with the last pic being my finger trying to point it out.  If you can tell, it looks like the section above the clip that holds the small hose is dry while below it is full of residue.

 

Am I correct that if there is a hole in the PCV hose that oil will leak out?

[5thlilpiggy]

So, when I detached the valve, this happened...

 

 

I think that'll cause a slight vacuum leak  :thumbup:

 

I had to get to a job interview in 2 hours, so I needed a pronto Macguyver fix.  Luckily, Super33+ tape seemed to do the job:

 

 

Cleared the codes (had popped for both banks this time...P2187 and P2189) and took a short drive with no CEL recurrence.  LiveData shows STFT = 25 on both banks at idle after the tape job.  Will report back after more drive time.  

Edited May 5, 2016 by 5thlilpiggy

[5thlilpiggy]

P2189 came back. Attached pics of the freeze frame if that helps.

I think I'm going to take that hose off again and tape the rest of it as it crackled anytime I moved it during removal.

[Ahsai]

Based on your short term and long term fuel trims, it looks like both banks are equally affected? What scan tool is that and do you have Durametric?

[5thlilpiggy]

It is an Autel MD802 all-system...it reads everything but doesnt have bi-directional.  I dont have a durametric.
 
 

Based on your short term and long term fuel trims, it looks like both banks are equally affected?

Im not sure...where should the trims be?  Edit: looks like they should be as close to 0 as possible?
 
Is this a legitimate test?
 
For a suspected vacuum leak, note the fuel trims at idle and increase engine speed to 2500 RPM and hold. If the STFT immediately decreases and moves to acceptable levels and the LTFT slowly starts to come back down, you have a vacuum leak. 

Edited May 6, 2016 by 5thlilpiggy