2000 S - Hard Brake Pedal with diminished brake power

[Vish_ster]

Porsche-mates,

I came upon this issue a couple of days ago.

I noticed while driving, the brake pedal became very hard to push down. Braking power seems to be there to some degree but the power assist is gone.

 

I looked up some of the potential reasons for when a vacuum may not be there for the power assist, such as

1) Bad AOS - No white smoke, oil filler cap comes off easily, and no related engine codes.

2) Cold weather - so it is in the 50s in Phoenix but even when it warms a bit, the brake pedal is hard.

 

Some other observations - not sure if related,

i) Every once in a while, I get a CEL with a P0153. When I reset it, it stays off for a long time and when I go to higher altitudes, say Flagstaff or Prescott, it comes back on. Car did pass emissions last year.

ii) Engine normally purrs around 7-800 rpm but at times, especially after this "hard brake pedal" issue, when the brake pedal is pressed, can go upto 1100 rpm. Recently, I've noticed that when the engine is idling, there seems to be some kind of a rattle from the back, not loud enough to be scary but enough to be noticeable. This becomes more prominent right at the point when the engine is turned off.

iii) Since this is my daily driver, it has braved a ton of rain recently in the Valley here.

 

Car is a 2000 S and has 163K miles on it and the last AOS was replaced at 102K miles. Plenty of other preventative maintenance has been performed to it, including the IMS upgrade. Brakes were recently updated as well.

 

What could I be looking at here? Has the Brake Booster unit gone on me?

Appreciate your ideas.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Vish_ster

[JFP in PA]

Porsche-mates,

I came upon this issue a couple of days ago.

I noticed while driving, the brake pedal became very hard to push down. Braking power seems to be there to some degree but the power assist is gone.

 

I looked up some of the potential reasons for when a vacuum may not be there for the power assist, such as

1) Bad AOS - No white smoke, oil filler cap comes off easily, and no related engine codes.

2) Cold weather - so it is in the 50s in Phoenix but even when it warms a bit, the brake pedal is hard.

 

Some other observations - not sure if related,

i) Every once in a while, I get a CEL with a P0153. When I reset it, it stays off for a long time and when I go to higher altitudes, say Flagstaff or Prescott, it comes back on. Car did pass emissions last year.

ii) Engine normally purrs around 7-800 rpm but at times, especially after this "hard brake pedal" issue, when the brake pedal is pressed, can go upto 1100 rpm. Recently, I've noticed that when the engine is idling, there seems to be some kind of a rattle from the back, not loud enough to be scary but enough to be noticeable. This becomes more prominent right at the point when the engine is turned off.

iii) Since this is my daily driver, it has braved a ton of rain recently in the Valley here.

 

Car is a 2000 S and has 163K miles on it and the last AOS was replaced at 102K miles. Plenty of other preventative maintenance has been performed to it, including the IMS upgrade. Brakes were recently updated as well.

 

What could I be looking at here? Has the Brake Booster unit gone on me?

Appreciate your ideas.

 

 

Most likely, then tend to collect water and rust out.

[Vish_ster]

Makes sense, JFP!

Thank you for your prompt response!

Edited January 11, 2016 by Vish_ster

[Vish_ster]

Issue was fixed - it was a vacuum leak due to the hose/tube (visible from the engine bay towards the seat area) from the motor to the front of the car.

The entire hose/tube was replaced and the brake boost is back on.

 

But what is strange, is this P1128 and P1130 that came on the very same evening, that I had picked up the car.

Most forum hits lead to a bad MAF.

My last one was replaced 60K miles ago @ 102K.

 

I did these today,

1) Took the MAF off and sprayed the CRC MAF cleaner generously.

2) While this was drying, I started the engine, the idling was smooth with no variations, around 800 rpm.

3) Put the MAF back on, reset the DME by disconnecting and connecting the battery after about 5 mins.

4) Noticed a bit of variation in the idling ranging from 800-1000 rpm.

 

How soon would I know if my MAF is indeed bad? 50 miles or more?

 

Apologize if I'm bringing up one of the most searched set of error codes on the Internet, but I find it very strange that these codes came on, right after a major vacuum leak was fixed.

 

Ah - one more thing, I noticed some white film right on the MAF, around where the green O ring/bottom portion of the MAF, gets attached to the intake manofold.

No sign of any oil deposit.

Did fixing the vacuum leak mess up the MAF?

 

Thank you again for your insights here!

Edited January 26, 2016 by Vish_ster

[JFP in PA]

P1128 and 1130 are bank 1 & 2 codes for an over rich condition.  While it could be MAF related, it can also be fuel pressure too high, leaking injectors, or the EVAP purge valve being stuck open.

 

Your surging idle is probably caused by disconnecting the battery, which puts the system into a "relearn" mode.

 

If you want to test your MAF, use a Porsche diagnostic tool or other capable OBD II scanner to read its air flow readings. 

[Vish_ster]

Thank you again for your prompt insights, JFP.

After cleaning the MAF and driving about 30 miles, a CEL as expected.

Though lo and behold, compared to the previous three CELs of P1128 and P1130, I have a P0430....what am I chasing now?

Did I mess up a cat? Or is the original CEL, P0153, finally revealing a failed O2 sensor?

Cheers!

Edited January 27, 2016 by Vish_ster

[JFP in PA]

P0430 is often an aging cat code, but can also be triggered by an intake of exhaust leak.  I would clear it again and see if it returns, if it does, and you are sure there are no leaks, you are going to need a cat.

[Vish_ster]

So after exhaustive set of tests, diagnosis was a bad MAF - no discernible exhaust leaks. $520 later....mostly due to the labor time from the tests, car is back home.

Although, I'm told that the o2 behind the cat on bank 2 is sending weak signals...and sometime down the road a cat may be needed.

I'm also told that new OE cats run to $1.5K and above...and there is an aftermarket vendor with cheaper cats.

Any inputs or recommendations into where I can get this before?

Thanks again, JFP!

Edited March 5, 2016 by Vish_ster

[JFP in PA]

So after exhaustive set of tests, diagnosis was a bad MAF - no discernible exhaust leaks. $520 later....mostly due to the labor time from the tests, car is back home.

Although, I'm told that the o2 behind the cat on bank 2 is sending weak signals...and sometime down the road a cat may be needed.

I'm also told that new OE cats run to $1.5K and above...and there is an aftermarket vendor with cheaper cats.

Any inputs or recommendations into where I can get this before?

Thanks again, JFP!

 

I would look at used cats from a wrecking yard; they can be had cheaply (even cheaper than aftermarket units) and often come with a limited warrantee. 

[Vish_ster]

My first thought, precisely. I was told, legally, these can't be resold? Not sure, if this an Arizona statute.

[JFP in PA]

My first thought, precisely. I was told, legally, these can't be resold? Not sure, if this an Arizona statute.

 

Most states allow the recycling of these parts, and according to your state statues on the subject:

 

"The Arizona State Legislature states in Statute 13-3728 that it is illegal for a person to purchase or sell a used catalytic converter "unless the purchase or sale is in the ordinary course of business by a commercial motor vehicle parts or repair business in connection with the sale or installation of a new catalytic converter." This law does not apply to automotive recyclers. Violation of the statute is considered a misdemeanor offense."

 

To me, that reads that a private individuals cannot buy or sell them to each other, but an authorized recycler can.  Arizona was one of many states that limited who can buy or sell used converters primarily because of converters being stolen and sold for scrap. You still may want to check this yourself, just to be safe.

[Vish_ster]

Brilliant!

Appreciate this extra mile of support very much, JFP!

There is a local dismantler/recycler of Porsches with some banged up Boxsters - will ask them first thing tomorrow.

If I can find a decent deal, I might just have it installed soon.

 

I love this car - having driven it daily for almost 10yrs now, with no immediate plans of changing it.

[Vish_ster]

No luck - these guys can't sell to public, per AZ law.

http://www.20thstreetauto.com/porsche/porschemain.htm

[JFP in PA]

Do you have a relationship with a shop that could get them for you?  Can you buy online from and out of state facility?

[Vish_ster]

None, that I can think of.

So far, the rough idling has gone and no sign of the meddling CEL, so the new MAF may have actually taken care of the issue.

I suspect a CEL will pop up when I take it up to higher altitudes,as I have seen in the past though.

Will confirm this weekend.
 

[Vish_ster]

So, I'm starting to hear that annoying creak/rattle (like intermittent metal scraping) from the right rear (passenger side) exhaust end of the car during idle. That sound is more pronounced when the engine is being turned off.

No CEL yet and engine idles/runs fine. Over 400 miles since the MAF change.

Seems like it may be coming from the right cat area, though I did the tap-with-rubber-mallet test, and no discernible rattle when this is done.

I wonder what to look for w.r.t. heat shields too.

 

Any inputs on where to source a cat too, JFP?

 

Thank you!

Edited March 12, 2016 by Vish_ster

[JFP in PA]

https://sites.google.com/site/mikefocke2/listsofsources

[Vish_ster]

Great, JFP! 
I did speak with the 20th Street Auto guys local here - they were a NO GO.

 

I found these cats on LA Dismantlers - what parts would be for the Boxster S secondary cats (right and left)?

 

http://www.ladismantler.com/porsche-boxster-986-used-catalytic-converter-996-113-022-05/ 

[JFP in PA]

Great, JFP! 

I did speak with the 20th Street Auto guys local here - they were a NO GO.

 

I found these cats on LA Dismantlers - what parts would be for the Boxster S secondary cats (right and left)?

 

http://www.ladismantler.com/porsche-boxster-986-used-catalytic-converter-996-113-022-05/ 

 

Sorry, but that link goes nowhere.

[Vish_ster]

Oh...yes...that page came up on a Google search but must have expired since it was cached at Google.

Listening closely, it does seem to be coming from passenger side rear cat. What's weird is coming to think of it, I've heard this sound for sometime since Sept of last yr and yet, the car passed its emissions.

[JFP in PA]

Oh...yes...that page came up on a Google search but must have expired since it was cached at Google.

Listening closely, it does seem to be coming from passenger side rear cat. What's weird is coming to think of it, I've heard this sound for sometime since Sept of last yr and yet, the car passed its emissions.

 

Cats can rattle and still work, but they won't do that forever.

[Vish_ster]

Very well, JFP!

Been calling around the sites that you had provided.

Hope to find a used set soon....

[Vish_ster]

Do the Base and S share the same models of cats? 

More Base cars around than the S ones.

 

Found a wrecked 2000 Base but it didn't have the two cats in the back, close to the muffler area....the pipes seemed welded to the muffler.

Not sure, if they delete those cats or if this is normal.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Vish_ster

[Vish_ster]

JFP,

While I am still searching for used cats, heard from another local Boxster guy that it may be relatively inexpensive to get the Magnaflow cats welded in at a local muffler shop.

If used OE cats are hard to get and not keen on spending on new OE/Fabspeed/AWE/etc cats either, would this be alright for the car?

Any experience with these cats?

 

Thanks again for your time here!

[JFP in PA]

JFP,

While I am still searching for used cats, heard from another local Boxster guy that it may be relatively inexpensive to get the Magnaflow cats welded in at a local muffler shop.

If used OE cats are hard to get and not keen on spending on new OE/Fabspeed/AWE/etc cats either, would this be alright for the car?

Any experience with these cats?

 

Thanks again for your time here!

 

I have no direct experience with them, but perhaps another board member does.