P0016, P0344

[Fmscell]

Please read below:

Edited December 30, 2015 by Fmscell

[Fmscell]

Hi everyone,

I'm a happy owner of a 2008 Cayenne S. I have been living with a chronic CEL for a while, codes P0016 + P0344 (P0016 comes back immediately after clearing). It's related to intake cam position timing on bank 1. I'm hoping (more like praying) that it's not a stretched timing chain, I haven't read up on anyone doing many timing chains on the 4.8L, so I'm going to "reluctantly" throw a Cam Position Sensor & Variable Valve Timing Actuator at it & hope for the best. While the cam sensor is removed I will inspect the hall effect ring on the camshaft that many believe bend, causing erratic cam signal codes. I also have an intermittent starting issue I hope is related to this (computer not seeing cam position on bank 1??).

Any Cayenne owners out there that have had these issues before & could share any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

Hi everyone,

I own a 2008 Cayenne S, been living with a chronic CEL for a while, codes P0016 + P0344(P0016 comes back immediately after clearing). It's related to intake cam position timing on bank 1. I'm hoping (more like praying) that it's not a stretched timing chain, I haven't read up on anyone doing a timing chain on the

[ekstroemtj]

Interesting to know how its possible to find out if the timing chains are streched.

[RFM]

The use of a two-channel scope makes this immediately clear, the signals between the crankshaft sensor and the camshaft sensor will be out of synchronization. Unfortunately not every enthusiastic has this equipment available.  Happy New Year to everyone.

[ekstroemtj]

Happy new year to belgium!

Thank you for explaining this.

[Fmscell]

Happy New Year! just to update, VVT actuator + cam sensor did nada... code came back right away. I was looking at the camshaft signals with the scan tool & it shows bank 1 having a 2 degree "out of target" reading (should be 130deg, reading 132deg). Looks like the bank 1 cam timing chain has stretched. Time to save up, lol!

[hahnmgh63]

Curious, how many miles are on the Pig, oil change intervals, what oil are you using?  First I have heard about it on the 4.8 but I guess some of them are starting to get up there in mileage now too.

[Fmscell]

Curious, how many miles are on the Pig, oil change intervals, what oil are you using? First I have heard about it on the 4.8 but I guess some of them are starting to get up there in mileage now too.

The pig has 200km, I bought it from a friend with the CEL cam code on (I'm the 2nd owner). Mobil 0w40 services every 10-15K, I just changed it to Liquid Moly 10w60 RaceTech (runs better, doesn't burn). The crazy thing is he said this light was on since almost the beginning when he had it serviced at the dealer for something, which made me believe that it was a bent reluctor ring on the cam, but it looked good? I don't know.... this is why I asked if anyone has had any similar experiences with this. I have almost 20k in receipts since the beginning so I don't think it's been neglected.

[Fmscell]

Curious, how many miles are on the Pig, oil change intervals, what oil are you using? First I have heard about it on the 4.8 but I guess some of them are starting to get up there in mileage now too.

The pig has 200km, I bought it from a friend with the CEL cam code on (I'm the 2nd owner). Mobil 0w40 services every 10-15K, I just changed it to Liquid Moly 10w60 RaceTech (runs better, doesn't burn). The crazy thing is he said this light was on since almost the beginning when he had it serviced at the dealer for something, which made me believe that it was a bent reluctor ring on the cam, but it looked good? I don't know.... this is why I asked if anyone has had any similar experiences with this. I have almost 20k in receipts since the beginning so I don't think it's been neglected.

UPDATE :

I recently got my Cayenne back from the shop & I want to report that my issues have been solved. The tech confirmed that problem was with the cam timing (both banks off) & proceeded to re-time the engine by locking the cams using a special fixture& re-adjusting the cam sprockets back to factory spec. While the intake manifold was off he carbon blasted the intake & replaced the plugs. The result.....no more engine light, smooth start up, quick snappy response & smoother transmission shift. Happy customer!

[paulwu]

On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 3:00 PM, Fmscell said:

UPDATE :

I recently got my Cayenne back from the shop & I want to report that my issues have been solved. The tech confirmed that problem was with the cam timing (both banks off) & proceeded to re-time the engine by locking the cams using a special fixture& re-adjusting the cam sprockets back to factory spec. While the intake manifold was off he carbon blasted the intake & replaced the plugs. The result.....no more engine light, smooth start up, quick snappy response & smoother transmission shift. Happy customer!

Hello,

 

I have MY04 Cayenne-S with 210K and having the P0016 for a while already; hating to see the CEL on. Wondering how difficult and what procedures involved for re-timing? What's the cost for the job? I am in Montreal, QC. Thanks,

[06TitaniumBLK]

Hello PaulWu - 

I have an 06 cayenne S and I have the exact small problem.  It seems you're fix may be what my Cayenne needs. 

But all my mechanics are saying I need to pull the engine. Could you provide details on what the special fixture is here : 

 

proceeded to re-time the engine by locking the cams using a special fixture& re-adjusting the cam sprockets back to factory spec. 

Also maybe I can contact this garage?  Coudl you share the name and info? 

 

Did you pull the engine for that? 

What was the repair cost? 

Thanks !

 

 

[paulwu]

Hello,

Sorry for the late reply; missed the message.  Unfortunately I have not fix my issue yet due to the complication of pulling the engine. It is my only CEL stays on all the time. For me this car is becoming obsolate and not worth to spend too much on it!

 

Good luck!

[06TitaniumBLK]

PaulWu - 

So the CEL returned shortly after the engine was retimed? 

I've been told retiming the engine can be done without pulling the engine.

 

thanks

 

 

 

[paulwu]

17 hours ago, 06TitaniumBLK said:

PaulWu - 

So the CEL returned shortly after the engine was retimed? 

I've been told retiming the engine can be done without pulling the engine.

 

thanks

 

 

 

Hi

Yes after delete the P0016 usually it returns in about 20km.  

 

I read the service bulleting about retiming timing without pulling engine but the info is vague. 

 

Guess even timing expert is needing to pull engine so It should. 

 

The pig is running soft and with much consumption. Any info will be appreciated!

 

thanks,

[AussieJet]

How is the timing been centred is the question. These engines have  35 degrees of variation due to the variable actuator. The camshaft timing is set to + or - 6 degrees, the variable actuator then centres the cam for precision timing. 

 

Meaning your computer will always show your timing as perfect. Unless someone has messed up the timing it should be considered ok. It is the variable system that plays up. 

 

If the timing chain was to stretch enough to cause a CEL it would be noticed at startup or efficient cruise speeds when the variation is at its limit. 

 

It’s more likely to be an actuator or solenoid. Simply checking the camshaft timing to within the factory specs will not diagnose this fault. You would need to check the operation and travel of the variable timing actuator. 

[paulwu]

On 6/4/2018 at 8:53 AM, AussieJet said:

How is the timing been centred is the question. These engines have  35 degrees of variation due to the variable actuator. The camshaft timing is set to + or - 6 degrees, the variable actuator then centres the cam for precision timing. 

 

Meaning your computer will always show your timing as perfect. Unless someone has messed up the timing it should be considered ok. It is the variable system that plays up. 

 

If the timing chain was to stretch enough to cause a CEL it would be noticed at startup or efficient cruise speeds when the variation is at its limit. 

 

It’s more likely to be an actuator or solenoid. Simply checking the camshaft timing to within the factory specs will not diagnose this fault. You would need to check the operation and travel of the variable timing actuator. 

 

Thanks for the sharing and info. I really went into this P0016 for a while and tried alot to fix it. I believe I am in the worse scenario is with the bank1 timing chain stretched. 

 

I have actually changed the bank1 actuator solenoid and camshaft sensor but no help. 

 

Any info to adjust the timing or change the chain without pulling engine? Thanks!

[Nismo05]

On 6/7/2018 at 11:17 AM, paulwu said:

 

Thanks for the sharing and info. I really went into this P0016 for a while and tried alot to fix it. I believe I am in the worse scenario is with the bank1 timing chain stretched. 

 

I have actually changed the bank1 actuator solenoid and camshaft sensor but no help. 

 

Any info to adjust the timing or change the chain without pulling engine? Thanks!

Not sure if this thread is dead or not but just wanted to add that I too have been dealing with a P0016 on my MY09 GTS. 100k miles exactly on the clock.  After doing a lot of research and consulting with techs and specialists, this weekend I’m going to reset the timing for both banks and change all the timing and valve lift actuator solenoids. I’ve already changed both cam and crank sensors. I had even bridged the cam position sensors together to only read from Bank 2 and instead of P0016, I got P0172 for valve lift control, as well as Misfire Cyl 3. I think those codes were hiding as a P0016 code as the ECU just generically “diagnosed” the engine’s roughness. After everything is completed, I will report back with my results. 

[paulwu]

2 minutes ago, Nismo05 said:

Not sure if this thread is dead or not but just wanted to add that I too have been dealing with a P0016 on my MY09 GTS. 100k miles exactly on the clock.  After doing a lot of research and consulting with techs and specialists, this weekend I’m going to reset the timing for both banks and change all the timing and valve lift actuator solenoids. I’ve already changed both cam and crank sensors. I had even bridged the cam position sensors together to only read from Bank 2 and instead of P0016, I got P0172 for valve lift control, as well as Misfire Cyl 3. I think those codes were hiding as a P0016 code as the ECU just generically “diagnosed” the engine’s roughness. After everything is completed, I will report back with my results. 

Please keep us posted!  MY04 Cayenne-S now 150K miles and only P0016 left. It idles rough and losing power. Good luck!

[Nismo05]

On 2/21/2019 at 6:16 PM, paulwu said:

Please keep us posted!  MY04 Cayenne-S now 150K miles and only P0016 left. It idles rough and losing power. Good luck!

Replaced both cam adjuster solenoids, both valve lift solenoids, adjusted camshaft timing so that both relucter wheels were at the same angle....no more P0016. No DTCs at all. 

Edited February 25, 2019 by Nismo05

[BamaScoot]

On 2/24/2019 at 10:02 PM, Nismo05 said:

Replaced both cam adjuster solenoids, both valve lift solenoids, adjusted camshaft timing so that both relucter wheels were at the same angle....no more P0016. No DTCs at all. 

 

That's great to hear! I'm looking at a cayenne with these same issues. How much did you spend getting it running, and how long did it take?

[JSP]

On 1/23/2016 at 3:00 PM, Fmscell said:

UPDATE :

I recently got my Cayenne back from the shop & I want to report that my issues have been solved. The tech confirmed that problem was with the cam timing (both banks off) & proceeded to re-time the engine by locking the cams using a special fixture& re-adjusting the cam sprockets back to factory spec. While the intake manifold was off he carbon blasted the intake & replaced the plugs. The result.....no more engine light, smooth start up, quick snappy response & smoother transmission shift. Happy customer!

 

Hi Fmscell,  I have a 2008 Cayenne Turbo with the CEL on and code P0016.  How much did it cost to have the engine cam timing checked and adjusted. I am also in Toronto can you recommend a shop to have this checked and adjusted.

 

 

[JSP]

On 2/24/2019 at 11:02 PM, Nismo05 said:

Replaced both cam adjuster solenoids, both valve lift solenoids, adjusted camshaft timing so that both relucter wheels were at the same angle....no more P0016. No DTCs at all. 

 

Hi Nismo05,  Did you replace all the solenoids on spec. or did you find they were all faulty? Was it a bad cam actuator solenoid for Bank 1 that was gummed up or malfunctioning? I have read that the VVT solenoids are more difficult to replace and the solenoids are all pricey so I wouldn't want to replace them all unless it"s necessary. In the above quoted post by member Fmscell  he reported that all that was required to clear his P0016  code was by re-timing the camshafts with a special fixture.

[JSP]

My timing chain was worn (stretched) and the upper U shaped chain guide had a piece of the plastic break off and fall into the oil pan. The engine and most of the drive-train was dropped down on to the shop floor to have the timing chain, oil chain all the chain guides, sprockets, bolts and hardware replaced. I purchased the timing chain kit from FCP- Euro and had the work performed by TSH auto in Toronto. It cost close to $5500 CDN  which included all the parts and labour plus oil/filter change, alignment and all fluids. 176000 km and the full service history  from a Porsche dealer shows that the previous owners all followed the recommended service intervals for oil changes which is 20000 km or 1 year. If you have a lower mileage car I would at least cut the mileage in half and get the oil changed at least every 10000 km if you plan on keeping your car for a long time and want to avoid a 5k + repair bill. I think it is ill advised for Porsche to be recommending a 20000 km oil change interval. The timing chain on this V8 is extremely long and has to move a lot of parts and appears to be the weak link (Achilles heel) of this engine. These are not cheap cars so why risk it for a $160 oil//filter change, or DIY for less that $100.00.

The check engine light is off and the P0016 code is gone, the throttle response is much quicker now. 

[stebergl]

On 1/23/2016 at 9:00 PM, Fmscell said:

UPDATE :

I recently got my Cayenne back from the shop & I want to report that my issues have been solved. The tech confirmed that problem was with the cam timing (both banks off) & proceeded to re-time the engine by locking the cams using a special fixture& re-adjusting the cam sprockets back to factory spec. While the intake manifold was off he carbon blasted the intake & replaced the plugs. The result.....no more engine light, smooth start up, quick snappy response & smoother transmission shift. Happy customer!

Thanks to you I bought a cheap turbo -08 and a specialist fixed it easy for about 1100 euro. I am very happy!

[JSP]

Hi stebergl,

 

How many km does your 08 Turbo have, what problem did you have and what did the mechanic do to fix it?

 

My mechanic said it is a known issue that the timing chains wear (or stretch) when the mileage gets to around 100,000 miles or 160,000 km to the point that the variocam  tolerance is more than 12 degrees and it can longer self adjust to compensate for the difference between the banks. When this happens the camshaft sensors will flag the P0016 code. The only fix in this case is to replace the timing chain. I suppose it may be possible to make a re-calibration when the tolerance is less than 12 degrees, but only time will tell if the timing chain wear becomes worse where it can not be re-calibrated any more. It all depends on how often the oil and filter were changed. If the previous owner drove less that 20000 km per year you may have more time, because the Porsche recommended oil change interval is 20,000 km or 1 year which I think is twice as much mileage as it should be. Most Euro independent mechanics are seeing the problems left behind by the inadequate Manufacturers recommendations, and they are recommending oil and filter changes with synthetic oil every 7500 to 10,000 km. The manufacturers don't care after the car is out of warranty and thus why the depreciation for these vehicles is immense. Used car buyers are not their customers unless they are buying a low mileage factory certified pre-owned vehicle.