DIY question

[gcp]

Hi all and merry Xmas!

 

Last week a friend's code reader indicated that my Y2K 996 may have a faulty inlet bank 2 camshaft position sensor (code P1325). Can someone please tell me where I can located this sensor so as I can remove, test, and if need be replace it? Will I need to go under the car to visually locate and inspect?

 

All DIY assistance will be greatly appreciated!

Edited December 25, 2015 by gcp

[JFP in PA]

Hi all and merry Xmas!

 

Last week a friend's coder reader indicated that my Y2K 996 may have a faulty inlet bank 2 camshaft position sensor (code P1325). Can someone please tell me where I can located this sensor so as I can remove, test, and if need be replace it? Will I need to go under the car to visually locate and inspect?

 

All DIY assistance will be greatly appreciated!

 

The easiest way to test and confirm the function or lack thereof on the cam position sensors is with a Porsche specific scan tool, which can activate the VarioCam on each bank separately with the engine running so you can see the changes in cam angles in real time.

 

To remove/replace the right side sensor, it can be done from above, but you need to remove the intake housing, drain and remove the power steering reservoir, disconnect the primary cables from the junction block, remove the AC compressor, and then you should be looking at the sensor which has a harness plug and held in by one bolt.

[gcp]

JFP, we did that and from the data we determined it's the cam sensor. It sounds quit the job, how many hours work am I looking at to remove/replace this sensor?

 

Thank you for your response!

[JFP in PA]

For that side sensor, I would allow 2-2.5 hours for someone with direct experience in these cars.  Question I still have is did you activate the VarioCam on that bank, hear the engine change, but did not see the cam angle changing?  Reason I ask this is sometimes this code is not the sensor, but the cam actuator solenoid on that side not fucntioning, which is a different kettle of fish (it can easily be accessed from underneath,).  I have not seen a "global" OBD II type scanner other than the Porsche specific tools I mentioned above that can individually activate the cam systems one at a time while watching to see the actual cam angle movement in real time.  What type of scanner was used?

 

You really do not want to be changing the sensor if it really is the solenoid, as that would be a waste of both time and money.

[Ahsai]

A good photo of the sensor here. See Figure 5 here http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Boxster_Tech/26-FUEL-Engine_Sensors/26-FUEL-Engine_Sensors.htm

[gcp]

Thanks guys! I will get the scan tool particulars and the extent of the test executed from my friend and get back to you.

[gcp]

All he did was a global scan and watched live data. His scanner will not perform the solenoid test you suggested (scanner used was the snap on ethos). So I guedd i am doomed for a dealer visit, for at least the scan data if not the repair.

[gcp]

All he did was a global scan and watched live data. His scanner will not perform the solenoid test you suggested (scanner used was the snap on ethos). So I guedd i am doomed for a dealer visit, for at least the scan data if not the repair.

[JFP in PA]

All he did was a global scan and watched live data. His scanner will not perform the solenoid test you suggested (scanner used was the snap on ethos). So I guedd i am doomed for a dealer visit, for at least the scan data if not the repair.

 

Not really, you can try a locate a local independent with a Porsche scan tool. or even obtain one yourself (they cost less than $300 and quickly pay for themselves).  The problem everyone encounters with Porsche is that they use a unique diagnostics system that is unlike anything else.  But with a Porsche specific tool you can capture data as well as activating systems in real time to get to the heart of a problem quickly.

 

The Ethos system is nice but pricey, and also requires an expensive software package for Porsches, and even then is very lacking compared to a Porsche specific tool like the Durametric system or a PST II.

[gcp]

Thank  you for all the valuable inputs JFP. I have a laptop based Porsche specific tool at home which I'll check into this evening. I bought it years back so I may need to update. If not, will the Duromatic execute the test you described above? And will it reset the dreaded airbag light?

[JFP in PA]

Thank  you for all the valuable inputs JFP. I have a laptop based Porsche specific tool at home which I'll check into this evening. I bought it years back so I may need to update. If not, will the Duromatic execute the test you described above? And will it reset the dreaded airbag light?

 

Yes to both questions.  The Durametric system is the best you can find outside the factory PST II or PIWIS systems.

[CarlOrton]

As an only 3-month 996 owner, I'm saying more than I know, but my 2001 C2 had a code P1341, which I believe (in ignorance, remember) to be similar, but the other side or bank. P1341 resulted in my solenoid giving false / indeterminate readings.

 

When I encountered mine, some folks said I could replace it relatively easily, but then others chimed in that that ease was only for VarioCam+ cars, I believe either 2002 or 2004 and later.

 

To replace MY solenoid, the valve cover had to be replaced, the cams removed, and the solenoid replaced.  The solenoid itself was about $1200 and $1800 of labor for $3000 total.

 

Like I said, I'm saying more than I know, but I *do* know there is a difference between the VarioCam and VarioCam+ or 2 systems WRT ease of replacement.

[JFP in PA]

As an only 3-month 996 owner, I'm saying more than I know, but my 2001 C2 had a code P1341, which I believe (in ignorance, remember) to be similar, but the other side or bank. P1341 resulted in my solenoid giving false / indeterminate readings.

 

When I encountered mine, some folks said I could replace it relatively easily, but then others chimed in that that ease was only for VarioCam+ cars, I believe either 2002 or 2004 and later.

 

To replace MY solenoid, the valve cover had to be replaced, the cams removed, and the solenoid replaced.  The solenoid itself was about $1200 and $1800 of labor for $3000 total.

 

Like I said, I'm saying more than I know, but I *do* know there is a difference between the VarioCam and VarioCam+ or 2 systems WRT ease of replacement.

 

There are different configurations of the solenoids on these cars, depending upon how it was equipped (VarioCam vs. VarioCam+).  Yours sounds like the actuator unit between the cams failed, which is pretty rare:

 

 

Replacing the solenoid would require pulling the cover, but should not include removing the cams.  The cams only have to come out if the actuator itself failed, which is rare (I think we have only seen a couple actuators fail over the years).  

 

On the VarioCam + engines, the more common solenoid failures involve the units that are in the cam covers between the plugs:

 

 

On a VarioCam engine, there is one protruding through the cam cover, and on a VarioCam+ there are two:

 

 

    

 

 

Quite often, they act up because the hold downs fail:

 

 

In the OP's case, he has the early single solenoid.  But at this time, we do not know if the position sensor (which is buried on top of the engine) is out or reading erroneously, or the solenoid has failed without seeing what happens to the cam angles when the solenoid is triggered by the diagnostics tool.  More information is needed to make an informed decision.

[CarlOrton]

Thanks for the explanation, JFP;  my entire assy was replaced; solenoid and actuator came as a unit, hence the cam removal.

[JFP in PA]

Thanks for the explanation, JFP;  my entire assy was replaced; solenoid and actuator came as a unit, hence the cam removal.

 

If just the solenoid had been bad, the parts would have cost you around $200 and the cams would not have had to come out (solenoid is held in by two bolts and removable by itself once the cam cover is off), saving you a lot of money:

 

[gcp]

I finally found the Bowser Electronics laptop based scan tool I purchased back in 2005, and updated in 2006. I don't know how useful it will be but before I buy the Durametric I'd like to give this one a chance, question is will it work on my Windows XP, windows 8.1, or windows 10 laptops? I may have to call them to get the specifics, if they are still in business.

 

I love the info and pics guys, this turned into an excellent thread and I thank you for that, it'll sure help me troubleshoot and fix!

[gcp]

Friends, upon receiving my Durametric scanner last week, yesterday I had time to install & scan my car. Here's what it read:

 

"Engine fault - P1325 Cam Shaft Adjustment Bank 1 Porsche fault code 178".

 

If I remember correctly one angle (I assume the failing one) was -11 at idle while the other was approx. 15….the car idles rough but smooths out as RMPs are increased. As the engine revved the -11 climbed to 13? while the other climbed to 15?

 

Is this a solenoid fault? I suspect so because of the word adjustment (or it could even be a broken solenoid bracket, as described above). Sounds like I'll have my hands full.

 

"Airbag fault - 21 Ignition Circuit Driver" - I zeroed the fault but it keeps re-appearing, any guesses on where I should start? In retrospect this fault may have initiated when I installed the aftermarket stereo so it could be self inflicting but I don't remember for sure.

 

JFP in PA, I'd greatly appreciate your inputs!

Edited February 3, 2016 by gcp

[JFP in PA]

Friends, upon receiving my Durametric scanner last week, yesterday I had time to install & scan my car. Here's what it read:

 

"Engine fault - P1325 Cam Shaft Adjustment Bank 1 Porsche fault code 178".

 

If I remember correctly one angle (I assume the failing one) was -11 at idle while the other was approx. 15….the car idles rough but smooths out as RMPs are increased. As the engine revved the -11 climbed to 13? while the other climbed to 15?

 

Is this a solenoid fault? I suspect so because of the word adjustment (or it could even be a broken solenoid bracket, as described above). Sounds like I'll have my hands full.

 

"Airbag fault - 21 Ignition Circuit Driver" - I zeroed the fault but it keeps re-appearing, any guesses on where I should start? In retrospect this fault may have initiated when I installed the aftermarket stereo so it could be self inflicting but I don't remember for sure.

 

JFP in PA, I'd greatly appreciate your inputs!

 

Ok, let's start with some basics:  When you say the cam angle is -11 degrees and the other cam is 15 degrees, are this "actual cam angles" or "cam deviation" angles?  Your cam deviation specs are +/- +6 degrees at idle; if your engine is at 11 & 15 degrees (cam deviation values) you have a more mechanical issue as your cam timing is way out of whack.  As you car is a 2000, it is a five chain motor, meaning that it has an extra set of cam tensioning paddles between the two cams (note the small chain connecting the two cams with the green arrows, about half way between the two green arrows you can see the wear pad of the five chain tensioner):

 

 

The small wear pads can literally fall apart, throwing the cam timing off (these are worn pads next to new ones):

 

 

I would suggest rescanning the car, looking at the cam deviation values at idle

 

When these pad get beat, the cam deviation values go way out of spec, and the car throws the code you are seeing.  You would also find small yellow/brown plastic bits worn off the pads in both your oil filter and sump.  If the sump contains green plastic bits, they would be coming from the VarioCam unit itself, which can also do this, but is much less common than the chain paddles.  While you are rescanning the car, also activate the VarioCam solenoids one at a time at idle; you should hear a pronounced click, followed by a major movement in the cam timing, along with a big change in how the car idles; this will show you if the VarioCam solenoids and the units themselves are functional.

 

Your air bag fault points to an open circuit in the system, possibly in the steering wheel air bag or clock spring assembly.

 

 

[gcp]

I will rescan tonight and get back to you JFP. Truth is I am still trying to understand the details of my new scan tool but I will be more observant this time.

 

What perplexes me about worn pads is that my car has only 62K miles on it...

Edited February 4, 2016 by gcp

[JFP in PA]

The Durametric system is enormously capable, much like the car itself.  It is capable of both evaluating and in many cases activating systems for test purposes.  Along with being able to individually activate the VarioCam units, it can show you the real time effect on your cams, and even plot the data as a graph.  It can also test run a lot of systems, such as running the front cooling fans on both their high and low speeds, as well as running the engine compartment exhaust fan.  Dig around in its various menus and look at what it can do, it is a quality diagnostic tool.

[gcp]

I am doing my share of digging for sure LOL. Here's what I have thus far:

 

P1325

Fault Code 178 – Camshaft adjustment bank 1

Fault code

Camshaft position 1 deviation is -9.67

Camshaft position 2 deviation is 13.97

Both these numbers remain pretty steady

At 800 RPM

Actual angle for camshaft bank 1 is -1.20

Actual angle for camshaft bank 2 is 2.0

At 2K RPM

Actual angle for camshaft bank 1 is 23.3

Actual angle for camshaft bank 2 is 3.2

At 3K RPM

Actual angle for camshaft bank 1 is 23.45

Actual angle for camshaft bank 2 is 3.7

I then executed Camshaft adjustments

Bank 1 start increases idle but not by much, idle is rough

Bank 2 start makes no perceptible difference, idle is still rough

[JFP in PA]

I am doing my share of digging for sure LOL. Here's what I have thus far:

 

P1325

Fault Code 178 – Camshaft adjustment bank 1

Fault code

Camshaft position 1 deviation is -9.67

Camshaft position 2 deviation is 13.97

Both these numbers remain pretty steady

At 800 RPM

Actual angle for camshaft bank 1 is -1.20

Actual angle for camshaft bank 2 is 2.0

At 2K RPM

Actual angle for camshaft bank 1 is 23.3

Actual angle for camshaft bank 2 is 3.2

At 3K RPM

Actual angle for camshaft bank 1 is 23.45

Actual angle for camshaft bank 2 is 3.7

I then executed Camshaft adjustments

Bank 1 start increases idle but not by much, idle is rough

Bank 2 start makes no perceptible difference, idle is still rough

 

You definitely have a timing problem, as your can deviation values are way out of spec at idle, which is before the VarioCam does anything.  This is most likely the tensioner wear pad issue.  Your VarioCam system is not activating on bank 2 (cam angle does not jump to over 20 degrees), so either the solenoid or the VarioCam unit itself is out.  Did you hear the "click" I mentioned when you activated the VarioCam on bank 2?  If not, I would start with that solenoid.

 

In any case, you need to get to the source of the out of spec cam deviation values; your timing is far enough out that you could get into serious trouble if it moves further.  This is going to require pulling cam covers to inspect the wear pads, which will need special cam holding tooling (the cam cover forms one half of the cam bearings, so a holding tool in needed to keep from potentially snapping the cam in half when the covers are removed).

 

This is a "home made" version of the same tooling in place on an M96 with the cam cover off:

 

[gcp]

JFP, I suspect it's the solenoid because I did not hear a click so it must not be activating but are you saying that I also have the tensioner wear pad issue?

Edited February 4, 2016 by gcp

[JFP in PA]

JFP, I suspect it's the solenoid because I did not hear a click so it must not be activating but are you saying that I also have the tensioner wear pad issue?

 

Yes, because your cam deviation values are way out of whack before the VarioCam activates; that is a sign of tensioner pad wear.

 

When we get a car in for IMS retrofit, the first thing we do is check the cam deviation values; if they are out of spec, we won't do the IMS unless the other issue is addressed as well, because we know where this is going and it ain't pretty, plus we don't want to be held accountable for that when it happens.  We don't do things half assed, we either do it right or not at all.

[gcp]

What is IMS retrofit?