PDK Leak

[circlethewagons]

I have been advised that theres a leak in my PDK that has 'infected' the wiring loom. The wiring loom cannot be replaced as it is attached to a rather expensive ECU\Valve Controller. The latest news is looking worse in that I may need to get a whole new PDK. 

 

The car is out of warranty and this will hurt $$$ wise.

 

Questions:

 

1. Has anyone had a similar issue?

2. Has anyone seen or have a copy of the document "PDK Transmission Diagnosis: Symptoms and Repair Procedure (35/09)"?

 

Thanks

[JFP in PA]

I have been advised that theres a leak in my PDK that has 'infected' the wiring loom. The wiring loom cannot be replaced as it is attached to a rather expensive ECU\Valve Controller. The latest news is looking worse in that I may need to get a whole new PDK. 

 

The car is out of warranty and this will hurt $$$ wise.

 

Questions:

 

1. Has anyone had a similar issue?

2. Has anyone seen or have a copy of the document "PDK Transmission Diagnosis: Symptoms and Repair Procedure (35/09)"?

 

Thanks

 

I have read about this problem (http://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/853486-pdk-failure.html) so it is not unknown.  This bulletin covers a wide variety of possible issues with the PDK and how to address them; sometimes with software, other times by replacement:

 

"PAG has a very detailed and specific procedure to follow to troubleshoot certain PDK problems (it's 18 pages long with many braches of "if / then" logic - it's called "PDK Transmission Diagnosis: Symptoms and Repair procedure (35/09)). These problems are in categories such as "leaks", "temp sensor", "electrical faults", and "software errors". Some of the problems & solutions result in the dealer service department being able to fix them, some result in the requirement of a new PDK unit." 

 

One of the potential issues with the PDK is its complexity, which makes it very difficult to work on as it requires both special tooling and knowledge.  As the result, the dealers are limited to some diagnostics tests and software updates, and gearbox replacement if that does not work.

[circlethewagons]

OK, so the end result is that a PDK replacement is required. The problem is actually a fairly minor one - an oil leak from where the wiring loom (21) connects. The oil has been pushed into the wiring loom. 

 

The big issue here is that no replacement parts seem to be available so for what is imo an minor issue, an entirely new PDK is required. This is a disappointing situation.

 

Is this the case for all PDK's? I had a VW Golf with DSG that was able to be repaired locally. 

[Hilux2400]

It has surprised me that Porsche and ZF went down this route to develop the 7 speed auto when there are other options such as the Nuvinci CVT which does not use gears.

 

I have just bought a German Kalkhoff bike with a Nuvinci rear hub.  There is no specific change like a conventional box but just a seamless alteration which responds to to torque which delivers the right gear. I think this type of CVT will be the future for all cars. It certainly has fewer moving parts and control mechanisms. 

[JFP in PA]

Is this the case for all PDK's? I had a VW Golf with DSG that was able to be repaired locally. 

 

Unfortunately, yes.  Other than the clutch pack (which is a single $6K unit for just the parts) Porshce never intended for the PDK to be serviced in the field, so there is both very limited technical or service information information available, and almost no parts.

[JFP in PA]

It has surprised me that Porsche and ZF went down this route to develop the 7 speed auto when there are other options such as the Nuvinci CVT which does not use gears.

 

I have just bought a German Kalkhoff bike with a Nuvinci rear hub.  There is no specific change like a conventional box but just a seamless alteration which responds to to torque which delivers the right gear. I think this type of CVT will be the future for all cars. It certainly has fewer moving parts and control mechanisms. 

 

I would also not wish the CVT on anyone.  While simple, lightweight, and supposedly "superior" (at least according the OEM's that uses them), they also have had a terrible response from owners of new cars equipped with them (noise and poor driving resposne), very limited service access, and as the direct result are getting a very bad reputation.  Nissan has gone to using only CVT's on all of their automatic trans equipped cars (except for the GT-R, which uses a sequential dual clutch gear box like the PDK) and it has been a customer relations nightmare for them.  The only available parts are fluid, a drain plug and its sealing ring; period.  If something goes wrong 5 min. out of warranty, you need to buy either a new or factory reaman CVT, which start at $2,600 dealer cost for the reman unit, which is just plain nuts.  This problem is so bad with Nissan's CVT that even transmission repair shops have to buy them from dealers, nobody can work on them as it requires speicalized tooling and fixtures that the factory will not sell, and there is absoultely no technical information available either.

 

CVT is not the answer

[Hilux2400]

 

It has surprised me that Porsche and ZF went down this route to develop the 7 speed auto when there are other options such as the Nuvinci CVT which does not use gears.

 

I have just bought a German Kalkhoff bike with a Nuvinci rear hub.  There is no specific change like a conventional box but just a seamless alteration which responds to to torque which delivers the right gear. I think this type of CVT will be the future for all cars. It certainly has fewer moving parts and control mechanisms. 

 

I would also not wish the CVT on anyone.  While simple, lightweight, and supposedly "superior" (at least according the OEM's that uses them), they also have had a terrible response from owners of new cars equipped with them (noise and poor driving resposne), very limited service access, and as the direct result are getting a very bad reputation.  Nissan has gone to using only CVT's on all of their automatic trans equipped cars (except for the GT-R, which uses a sequential dual clutch gear box like the PDK) and it has been a customer relations nightmare for them.  The only available parts are fluid, a drain plug and its sealing ring; period.  If something goes wrong 5 min. out of warranty, you need to buy either a new or factory reaman CVT, which start at $2,600 dealer cost for the reman unit, which is just plain nuts.  This problem is so bad with Nissan's CVT that even transmission repair shops have to buy them from dealers, nobody can work on them as it requires speicalized tooling and fixtures that the factory will not sell, and there is absoultely no technical information available either.

 

CVT is not the answer

 

That's an interesting reply and I knew nothing of those matters with cars. Of course the essence of a CVT is a sealed system where the actual drive point relies on the solidification of a microscopic lubrication film at the critical moment. I just think that its inherent simplicity in bound to win out in the end when the mechanisms are perfected for automotive use.   Its use on bicycle has been a light bulb moment for me, but then I am using something with far less torque transmission. 

[JFP in PA]

 

 

It has surprised me that Porsche and ZF went down this route to develop the 7 speed auto when there are other options such as the Nuvinci CVT which does not use gears.

 

I have just bought a German Kalkhoff bike with a Nuvinci rear hub.  There is no specific change like a conventional box but just a seamless alteration which responds to to torque which delivers the right gear. I think this type of CVT will be the future for all cars. It certainly has fewer moving parts and control mechanisms. 

 

I would also not wish the CVT on anyone.  While simple, lightweight, and supposedly "superior" (at least according the OEM's that uses them), they also have had a terrible response from owners of new cars equipped with them (noise and poor driving resposne), very limited service access, and as the direct result are getting a very bad reputation.  Nissan has gone to using only CVT's on all of their automatic trans equipped cars (except for the GT-R, which uses a sequential dual clutch gear box like the PDK) and it has been a customer relations nightmare for them.  The only available parts are fluid, a drain plug and its sealing ring; period.  If something goes wrong 5 min. out of warranty, you need to buy either a new or factory reaman CVT, which start at $2,600 dealer cost for the reman unit, which is just plain nuts.  This problem is so bad with Nissan's CVT that even transmission repair shops have to buy them from dealers, nobody can work on them as it requires speicalized tooling and fixtures that the factory will not sell, and there is absoultely no technical information available either.

 

CVT is not the answer

 

That's an interesting reply and I knew nothing of those matters with cars. Of course the essence of a CVT is a sealed system where the actual drive point relies on the solidification of a microscopic lubrication film at the critical moment. I just think that its inherent simplicity in bound to win out in the end when the mechanisms are perfected for automotive use.   Its use on bicycle has been a light bulb moment for me, but then I am using something with far less torque transmission. 

 

 

The CVT concept has merit, it is the execution that is flawed.  When people buy a $20k car (US $ on a new purschase), they tend to throw a major fit when told that they need to spend another $4-5K to replace the gear box on a four year old car because nobody knows how to work on them.  With the dealers being the only source for reman transmissions, it is an ugly situation for Nissan, Honda, Toyota, and everyone else that has adopted them in recent years.  To give you an idea how widespread the issue is, the local Nissan dealer to me keeps several complete CVT's in stock at all times because the sell so well.