Dyno Report : GIAC Program for Boxster S

[clubhead]

Disappointing results again

Attached is the dyno graph. Folowing mods are on my car :

- Dansk Sports Cat

- Dansk Headers

- Dansk Sports Muffler

- Evo Highflow Intake

When I sent my DME to Evolution Motorsports, I told them I had the above 4 mods on my car. They told me the stage 3 program (Evo intake, headers & muffler) will be the closest fit and that they would load my DME with that program.

Evolution Motorsports took about a week to get the program in place as they claim my DME is different from those in USA so require some additional 'tweaking'. Not a terribly big problem as my car was in the paint shop anyway. Got my DME back last week and drove the car for about 10 days before heading down to the dyno.

Blue line - Today's run with GIAC program with all the above 4 mods

Red line - Run with stock ECU and all the above 4 mods

Green line - Run with stock ECU, Dansk headers and sports cat

As you can see, the run with the best results (bar > 6,500rpm) is actually the green line. Meaning the muffler, intake and GIAC was a waste of money :(

There is a noticeable sudden dip in power/torque between 5,800-6,000rpm. This greatly concerns me. One of the reason suggested is a lean out which forced the knock sensor to retard timing. **** it! I'm not tracking my car till this issue is resolved!

Objectively, the GIAC program did help in bringing back power to area lost when I put the intake and muffler on the car. But this recovery simply brought it closer or on par with the green line run. Meaning I would have been better off not putting on the muffler, intake and the GIAC program which cost me about $2,200!

My peak bhp is now even lower than before!!

Overall, I'm quite or very disappointed with the results. I shall be contacting Evolution Motorsports to get a refund since they have a satisfaction guarantee that comes with their GIAC program. But I will need to send my DME back to them again to restore everything back to stock and that means a week of no car again Either that or I have someone to fly down here and get the DME custom tuned for my car on the dyno... I'm seriously considering that option.

Any suggestions people?

[erics]

Hi Clubhead, i must say i follow your posts with great attention as i have been looking for a while now to follow the same route as you:

1/ sport exhaust, and maybe sports cat and headers.

2/ Then induction and chip (or remapping)...maybe..

I know i will get the sport exhaust from Dansk: the sport exhaust which retains the OE looks! (see www.jpgroup.dk and look for reference 94330S).

Now i am not too sure about the headers and sport cat as they triple the price!!!

A porsche mechanic (Tower Bridge London) told me today that the standard headers have allready a pretty good flow. So i might as well keep them (usd 1000 saved...).

But the same guy mentioned that the OE cats are quite restrictive so sportcats could be on my list.

I am a bit adventurous as i have never heard a boxster S with sport exhaust but having recently heard a F360 modena at the petrol station with tubistyle exhaust... i know i want my car to sound better and louder!

Regarding your issue, i' d advise you to get your money back on the chip.

Then either try another make (say superchips??).

Or try a specialist in porsche electronics. In the UK, DMS are meant to make miracles... at least they do on 996 turbos (see reports on EVO mag).

Another alternative would be to have a proper remapping done with the car on a dyno as opposed to a 'pret-a-porter' chip.

So you would have a mapping tailormade to your car and its settings....

My input may not be of a great use to you as i am sure you may have explored that route anyway.

But please, PLEASE, keep us posted!

Best regards,

Eric.

ps: i am off to try to post some pictures of my car now (if i can find how to do it!).

Disappointing results again

Attached is the dyno graph. Folowing mods are on my car :

- Dansk Sports Cat

- Dansk Headers

- Dansk Sports Muffler

- Evo Highflow Intake

When I sent my DME to Evolution Motorsports, I told them I had the above 4 mods on my car. They told me the stage 3 program (Evo intake, headers & muffler) will be the closest fit and that they would load my DME with that program.

Evolution Motorsports took about a week to get the program in place as they claim my DME is different from those in USA so require some additional 'tweaking'. Not a terribly big problem as my car was in the paint shop anyway. Got my DME back last week and drove the car for about 10 days before heading down to the dyno.

Blue line - Today's run with GIAC program with all the above 4 mods

Red line - Run with stock ECU and all the above 4 mods

Green line - Run with stock ECU, Dansk headers and sports cat

As you can see, the run with the best results (bar > 6,500rpm) is actually the green line. Meaning the muffler, intake and GIAC was a waste of money :(

There is a noticeable sudden dip in power/torque between 5,800-6,000rpm. This greatly concerns me. One of the reason suggested is a lean out which forced the knock sensor to retard timing. **** it! I'm not tracking my car till this issue is resolved!

Objectively, the GIAC program did help in bringing back power to area lost when I put the intake and muffler on the car. But this recovery simply brought it closer or on par with the green line run. Meaning I would have been better off not putting on the muffler, intake and the GIAC program which cost me about $2,200!

My peak bhp is now even lower than before!! 

Overall, I'm quite or very disappointed with the results. I shall be contacting Evolution Motorsports to get a refund since they have a satisfaction guarantee that comes with their GIAC program. But I will need to send my DME back to them again to restore everything back to stock and that means a week of no car again  Either that or I have someone to fly down here and get the DME custom tuned for my car on the dyno... I'm seriously considering that option.

Any suggestions people?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[clubhead]

Great to know someone else is considering going down the similar route :)

Yes, just got off the phone with Evolution Motorports. They will give me a refund once I send the DME back to them to revert the program back to stock. Less shipping though :(

Anyway, if you've seen my previous posts, you would have seen the photos of the stock manifold vs the Dansk ones. The standard manifold lack a common collector and this will inpede gas flow. They're a great world apart in terms of design and the Dansk unit is clearly superior. I would highly recommend you replace the manifold as the first item. Exhaust didn't do much for me in terms of power except for the sound which I'm not terribly crazy about.

Far as I know, the manifold, sports cat and muffler is all about the same price. I paid US$799 for my muffler, US$999 for my manifold and US$999 for my sports cat if I remember correctly. You're lucky the Pound is so strong compared to all other currency so hesitate no more :)

On the subject of custom mapping, I'm trying to find someone who would do that. Do you know of anyone?

DMS is kinda expensive. They do travel down to Singapore where I live but charge GBP895 for a flash. That's about US$1,750. Compared to GIAC which is US$795, the choice is clear. I guess I'll call DMS again to see whether they can do a custom program. Again, the strong Pound is working against me here :(

[erics]

Hi Clubhead,

Yes i have seen your set-up + pictures of your exhausts etc...

Is your exhaust ref. 94330S ??

Dansk have lots of different models and i am not sure they all have the same sound / perf??

Is the 'sport' noise bearable at cruising speeds?

I hear that many 'sport' set-up are a real pain in the arse at cruising speed....

Also i am very surprised to hear that you do not like the sound that much... it seems almost impossible to me as when i hear a 996 with sport exhaust i cannot see this engine ever sounding bad!!!

The only car i can see sounding better is a modena 360 with tubistyle exhaust!!!

Maybe i am wrong...

The other thing i am a bit warry of is to find a proper guy to work on the car. i do not want porsche dealers to do it as they would charge more than the parts!

The guy i may use to do the work is an independant specialist in London... he charges £58 oer hour and says he needs less than an hour to fit just the rear box...

Does not look like rocket science to do this 'exhaust' jobby + the guy seems to know what he is talking about... he is curently working on my vespa... if he does well, i may give him the porsche!

Eric.

ps: that porsche mechanic mentioned that Dansk sell the dashboard exhaust switch for the boxster.... do you know anything about that?? (appart from the factory OE equipement...)

Great to know someone else is considering going down the similar route :)

Yes, just got off the phone with Evolution Motorports. They will give me a refund once I send the DME back to them to revert the program back to stock. Less shipping though :(

Anyway, if you've seen my previous posts, you would have seen the photos of the stock manifold vs the Dansk ones. The standard manifold lack a common collector and this will inpede gas flow. They're a great world apart in terms of design and the Dansk unit is clearly superior. I would highly recommend you replace the manifold as the first item. Exhaust didn't do much for me in terms of power except for the sound which I'm not terribly crazy about.

Far as I know, the manifold, sports cat and muffler is all about the same price. I paid US$799 for my muffler, US$999 for my manifold and US$999 for my sports cat if I remember correctly. You're lucky the Pound is so strong compared to all other currency so hesitate no more :)

On the subject of custom mapping, I'm trying to find someone who would do that. Do you know of anyone?

DMS is kinda expensive. They do travel down to Singapore where I live but charge GBP895 for a flash. That's about US$1,750. Compared to GIAC which is US$795, the choice is clear. I guess I'll call DMS again to see whether they can do a custom program. Again, the strong Pound is working against me here :(

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[erics]

this is my baby

[clubhead]

Nope, I didn't get the OEM look exhuast. My part number is 94.310S. Got it from www.departstop.com for US$799 I think. Very slow service but it arrives eventually :)

Far as my exhuast is concerned, the resonance is pretty bad at about 2,600rpm which equates to about about 60mph cruising. I'm hearing others have similar experiences. The local speed limit is 50mph so I don't have a chance to experience much of it. Honestly, I'm also getting used to it.

A 996 with Tequipment sports exhaust is VERY different in sound. It sorts of howl at high revs. Unfortunately, you just can't get that kinda sound from our Tequipment or Dansk exhaust. So if you're looking for a similar sound from the 996 Tequipment, you'll be disappointed :(

BTW, the Maserati 4200 with Tubi sounds very very good as well if you've heard it. Problem is most Maserati drivers tend to be more subdued and you won't be seeing many of them with a Tubi :)

Fitting the exhaust is rather straight forward. You just need some patience getting the old unit out and the new one to fit. Contrary to what some say, my Dansk unit did not bolt right on. A fair amount of twisting/bending needs to be done to get it centered. You also need some new u connectors like I mentioned in my previous posts. If you're not comfortable, just stick around to eye-ball the job. I do that even with my trusted mechanic of 5 years :)

At least your OPC will still install aftermarket parts. The one here just refuses to do it. Not that it bothers me greatly.

Finally, I'm not sure of the switch from the Dansk unit. It's not in their catalog so I assume it's not something offered as a standalone option. It may be 'bundled' with their OEM style exhaust though....

[cease]

Clubhead, have you considered using the Revo Technik serial port switches (SPS)? Here's a WEB site. http://www.revotechnik.com/products/sps.aspx

I've found shops in the US that will reprogram for you and configure the SPS to your needs. It allows you to go from stock to various sport modes depending on octane of fuel used.

[clubhead]

Clubhead, have you considered using the Revo Technik serial port switches (SPS)?  Here's a WEB site.  http://www.revotechnik.com/products/sps.aspx

I've found shops in the US that will reprogram for you and configure the SPS to your needs.  It allows you to go from stock to various sport modes depending on octane of fuel used.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did briefly considered it but they didn't seem that popular. What I'm looking for this time is probably the ability to custom tune the program to fit the mods I've in my car.... Even though the mods I've on are pretty standard but my experience with GIAC puts me off this kind of out-of-the-box one-type-fits-all program...

Things would've been a lot easier if I were located in the US. Each time I send the ECU across, I can't use my car for about 1 week :( And this is only only ride... except my motorcycle

[cease]

Understand. You might want to email them, they were accomodating with all my questions. They might have a way to program specifically for your car, with mods.

[clubhead]

Understand. You might want to email them, they were accomodating with all my questions.  They might have a way to program specifically for your car, with mods.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spoke to the local dealer for Revo. They don't have any program for the Boxster as yet. Even so, it would be out of the box program and customisation is not possible.

The only other route I'm told is DMS (www.dmsautomotive.com). They have both options available. Off the shelf program or custom tuned on the dyno. Only problem is they're very expensive because of the English Pound :( About US$1,700 for a off-the-shelf program. Custom tuned will even be more :(

[Dumb Ole Donkey]

Any suggestions people?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't waste any more money or time on the GIAC program. I've been through quite an ordeal with mine.

I started with the scargo intake. GIAC's program is specifically written for the Evo Highflow Intake. I called first to make my GIAC appointment at Dynospot Racing and they said the scargo would be fine. I had the scargo installed and drove straight to DSR for the flash. After doing a baseline, they found that I was very very lean (like 15.0). The guy there warned me that I was probably too far off for the program to fix my car. He then tried and he was right, not even close. The diameter of the scargo pipe is too big throwing off the MAF readings. He then suggested that he could have Garret write a custom program for me for an extra $200. Garret worked on it for 3 hours coming up with several different programs. In the end, my car was dyno'd 9 times. The 9th dyno showed me under 14 for most of the rev range, but never lower than 13.5 and mostly 13.8 and 13.9. They sent me home telling me everything would be fine. A month later, my car started to run funny. I developed a bunch of dead spots and even some backfiring. I was told I could either deal with it for 2 months until Garret could try and rewrite a new custom program for me or just take out the scargo and install the Evo. I ended up taking out the scargo and installing the Evo. I got reflashed with the regular Evo/Boxster program and since then, the car is running normally and stable but it has a huge dead spot at 4200. If I lift at 4200ish, it's like I slammed on the brakes. Sidenote: with the scargo, it was like that through the whole rev range. Very hard to drive when you can't lift.

Anyway, I have a dyno appointment this Monday. I suspect I am probably leaning out in places and if so, I don't know what I'll do. It's frustrating and I would never recommend GIAC to anyone.

If you can get a refund, do it. It's unlikely to ever get better.

And at least with the Revo, you can get flashed and drive around before you pay a dime. If it has goofy deadspots or other problems, you don't even have to argue with anyone. The program expires in 5 hours. If you like it, then you pay to have it permanently installed.

I'll let you know how my dyno goes. But note, I'm having some issues and I'm using the canned Evo package which is supposed to be perfect.

[erics]

never actually heard anyone who tried DMS on a boxster s...

if anyone has, i' d be curious to hear about it.

[clubhead]

Dumb Ole Donkey,

I appreciate you sharing this piece of advise with us here :)

For a moment, I thought the problem with my car being a non-US one. Someone did mention that another guy over at ppbb as very good experience with GIAC with similar mods to mine.

Good luck with your tuning. So what will you be using to adjust the fuel/ignition map on the DME? Revo? I assumed you've got yourself a refund on the GIAC?

[Dumb Ole Donkey]

Dumb Ole Donkey,

I appreciate you sharing this piece of advise with us here :)

For a moment, I thought the problem with my car being a non-US one. Someone did mention that another guy over at ppbb as very good experience with GIAC with similar mods to mine.

Good luck with your tuning. So what will you be using to adjust the fuel/ignition map on the DME? Revo? I assumed you've got yourself a refund on the GIAC?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't get a refund on the GIAC. I let them talk me into driving "a bit" lean at first. Then, it took about 25 days to develop problems. It was day 31 before I could get the installer to return my calls and try to help me. I finally got fed up and started talking refund and they refused. The offer was to buy a new Evo intake or wait 2 months with my car getting worse and worse only to have them put it back on the dyno and use it as a test mule even further hoping to get it right.

So, tonight I'll know 2 things. Am I lean anymore? How much power am I making? If I'm lean, I'll keep pushing and can possibly get a refund then because it's no longer a custom program issue. I'll be happy enough as long as it's not lean though. I wish I had started with Revo instead and if I do end up getting a refund, that's what I'll try next.

[clubhead]

I can't get a refund on the GIAC. I let them talk me into driving "a bit" lean at first.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then I consider myself lucky. Although the person wasn't exactly helpful, he at least was quite forthcoming in offering me a refund :) And it was about 3 weeks after I got my DME back before I managed to contact him. They really should give you money back. It says "Satisfaction Guaranteed" on their website.

I'm sending mine back next week when I'm travelling to minmise inconvenience.

[Dumb Ole Donkey]

I can't get a refund on the GIAC. I let them talk me into driving "a bit" lean at first.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then I consider myself lucky. Although the person wasn't exactly helpful, he at least was quite forthcoming in offering me a refund :) And it was about 3 weeks after I got my DME back before I managed to contact him. They really should give you money back. It says "Satisfaction Guaranteed" on their website.

I'm sending mine back next week when I'm travelling to minmise inconvenience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, I got my car dyno'd last night. Three runs. The first one was just as bad as with the Scargo Intake/custom program. The 2nd one was no better but a bit more power. The 3rd one had a perfect AFR but not as much power as the 2nd run. The computer was finally able to adapt my car into the proper range. This shows that everything is working okay together. The power results were disappointing as I lost 7hp from the Scargo/custom program. I'm still up over stock and that's with an open exhaust which surely costs me a hp or 3.

The power dips I'm feeling are caused by an air resonance problem. The car is not leaning out and I suspect that yours is not either. The latest and greatest EVO intake uses an OEM section of tubing because the stock part has some sort of butterfly on the inside to stir the airflow just so. I waited for 2 months and EVO still can't supply me with one of these new pieces so I installed the previous model. My program is working well enough and I'm probably not hurting my car but I do want the improvements of the "fixed" intake so as soon as they will give me one, I'm switching over to that.

[clubhead]

Okay, I got my car dyno'd last night. Three runs....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So what program did you use for the 2nd and 3rd run? Custom GIAC or stock?

The resonance chamber in the stock intake piping actually enhances low end power/torque. I'll be taking out the EVO kit in due time and replacing it with the stock piping but with a BMC filter. I will then dyno the car after that and let all know the results.

Thanks for sharing your experiences....

[Dumb Ole Donkey]

It's really not just about enhancing low end power/torque. It's a known problem with the deadspots that you and I both have and their fix to them. As far as I know, these are the iterations of Evo HF Intake and the solutions:

1) oversize pipe reduced air velocity and screwed up MAF readings. The fix was to change diameter to the same as stock

2) one piece design which doesn't use any of the stock piping. They thought the resonance chamber just reduced sound or reduced efficiency and they still sell another lower cost kit to bypass it. But they then discovered that Porsche does somethings for good reasons and this was their lack of understanding. The fix was to cut down the Evo piping so that the entire kit uses some of their piping and some OEM.

3) This is version 3 and the end result is no dead spots

All 3 runs Monday night were with the same program. The ECU just had some extra adaptation to do. It's the canned standard program by GIAC designed for the new new new Evo HF intake.

Unfortunately, there still aren't any Evo HFs to buy right now as production is horribly behind. :( If I were you, I'd wait and try the new intake. Or if you want, wait for me to get mine and report back. If it doesn't work, I'll be pulling my hair out but if it does, I'll be super happy. I'm bound to be the guinea pig so you might as well wait. I can assure you almost definitely that your power dips are not AFR related. I have a huge dip at 6k but I'm just over 12.0 AFR right there. What this means is that we're not messing up our cars. We're just annoyed.

[clubhead]

...I'm bound to be the guinea pig so you might as well wait. I can assure you almost definitely that your power dips are not AFR related. I have a huge dip at 6k but I'm just over 12.0 AFR right there. What this means is that we're not messing up our cars. We're just annoyed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great to hear that. I've already blown $349 on the intake kit but I got it from Mid America. I wonder if Evo will have an upgrade price for those that has the existing intake.... even if it was not purchased direct from them.

I still wonder why there is such a power dip at 6k rpm.... if it's not AFR, it has to be ignition timing.

[qikqbn]

I realize these posts were awhile ago, but I know there are many of us still dealing with this problem of our MAF sensor

causing rich or lean AFR's when we start adding bolt ons. I have had a major break through and wanted to share

the solution I came upon.

I have a 98 boxster with a 3.4 liter conversion. I have had it over a year this way and have been driving it using very

rich AFR's for most of the time. My AFR's have been reading in the 10's for quite awhile. Even this way the car was making

decent power, about 310 at the crank, but with all of my modifications I should have been closer to 320-330.

ECU Tuning has been a break through, but not how you think. I originally had "powerchip group" reprogram my ecu rom, but after 3 different programs and 3 100 mile round trips to their facility I was still running very rich. I then contacted "Steve", owner of SR Motorsports in Gardena (310-516-1003) for some dyno tuning. He has some amazing experience with tuning import cars and was in the research and development for APEX products for 5 years. I was running very rich for awhile and my Air fuel ratio readings were around 10 under wide open throttle on the dyno. The basic idea we discovered is that the MAF housing diameter for the stock 996 is 3.5 inches. For the Boxster it is 3 inches. When the 3.4 liter motor is drawing in air it is pulling air in "faster" through the smaller boxster 3 inch MAF instead of the stock 996 3.5 inch housing it was oringinally programmed for. This "faster/higher" reading sends a voltage reading to the996 ecu that calls for more fuel and thus richens everything at wide open. The opposite can happen if your MAF housing gets too big.

We wanted to be able to fine tune as needed so Steve recommended the "APEX AFC-SELECT" for german cars.

http://www.apexi-usa.com/product_electroni...5&pageNum=1

Hard to find these days, but they are out there. I also installed an AEM wideband Air fuel ratio gauge to monitor AFR's from within my car. The APEX AFC-Select allows us to control the voltage reading of the MAF at any designated rpm before it gets to the 996 ecu. By doing so the 996 ecu takes the new voltage reading and adjusts the fuel injectors as required. Thus we were able to fine tune my AFR to read a conservative 12 all across the board. From this tuning alone I gained 20-30 lbs of torque and horsepower across the mid rev range from 3500-7000 rpm. I was stunned and amazed at the difference! The whole process of installation and tuning took about 3 hours. Now I have a system that I can fine tune to my unique modifications. I would highly recommend this procedure over any "ecu rom tuning" in a heart beat because everyone's car mods are different. This eliminates wondering if your "reprogrammed chip" needs to be adjusted if you ever ad anymore bolt ons.

Steve's knowledge of the product and ease of use was paramount to making it happen so smoothly..Now granted this is not adjusting timing and other parameters that rom chips do, but for most bolt on mods that deal with faster air flow this is a great solution.

We wanted to start out conservative and tuned the air fuel ratio to hold 12 across the entire rev range at wide open throttle. We will later be raising it to an AFR of 13 which should result in a gain of another 10-15 hp and tq. For this test we will keep it conservative and safe at 12 for a few 100 miles to make sure no check engine lights or problems show up..

My before and after dynojet peak dyno readings at the wheels were as follows:

base: 255hp @ 6300 and 215tq @ 4600 (wheels) X 1.2 = 306 hp and 258 tq at crank

AFR=12 flat :270hp @ 6300 and 235tq @ 4600 (wheels) X 1.2 = 325 hp and 282 tq at crank

compare this with a bone stock 300 hp 2001 996 3.4 dynojet:

251hp and 213tq X 1.2 = 300hp and 256tq at crank

AFR=13 flat

Car has now been dyno'd with close to 325 hp at the crank and weighs only 2750 lbs.

Gtech Pro RR g-force meter performance run:

0-60 foot launch 1.9 sec

0-60 mph in 4.4 sec

0-100 mph in 10.4 sec

0-130 mph in 16.5 sec

0-150 mph in 26 sec

Quarter mile time 12.7 sec @ 110 mph.