2004 C4S Tiptronic S replacement (Plug & Play?)

[JayHutch]

Renntech gang,

As a relatively new 2004 C4S Cab Tip owner I've been having a horrible experience. Too long a story to repeat to start this thread. Saga began in this thread a few weeks back -> http://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum...ase-ideas.html Beautiful, well optioned 2004 C4S bought from my daughter knowing it had a rear end whine. Yes it has been determined the whine is in the output shaft AKA transfer case area. Loud and noticeable with top up and windows up.

I decided to address the fairly loud transmission whine by replacing the Tip. I want this beautiful 996 back to normal. Didn't want to spring for a $17,000 Tip from Porsche. I did purchase what was reported to be another 2004 C4S Tip (A96.35) which arrived from LA Dismantlers mid June. Said to have been from a 40,000 mile 2004 C4S. Local indy performed the R&R. No issues reported in the surgery. Properly re-filled with fluid, warmed, topped off, adaptation, etc.

Tip seemed alright at beginning of test drive. But then kicked into Emergency Mode / Fail Safe / Limp Home mode. Re-set, re-adaptation and same scenario. Limp home mode, 3rd gear only. Code 51. Problem I'm faced with now is Indy says problem is in transmission. I'm wondering if they know exactly how to sync tranny with my car? They did need to use my torque converter and my tip wiring harness. No TC with tranny and harness on replacement tranny broken at car side. Trusting the Indy is knowledgable concerning how to "marry" this tranny to my car, I'm assuming there is a special procedure to mate the new tranny to my car right? Or is it a plug and play and supposed to install, adaptation & work. Indy saying I need to be CERTAIN the tranny is from the exact year make model C4S. It's an A96.35 722.6 meant for that car & said to be from a 2004. How can I know if it's a bad tranny sent by LA Dismantlers, or the Indy doesn't know some secret to get this tranny out of Limp home mode. It is throwing a Code 51 - slippage or implausible. LA Dismantlers may send me a another tranny, but last word from Caleb is "The owner will be calling me about arrangements" Hmmmmm. Another story.

I did suggest that they switch out the Conductor Plate from my old tranny into the new and drop pan on new to see how the LA Dismantlers tranny looks inside. They thought that a good idea. Yep - shoulda been done w/o me suggesting. If new tranny still looks good replace filter, clean sump & sump magnet, etc. Refill, re adaptation and cross fingers? These are shipped dry and I have no idea if the tranny is really a bad one, or if there is some magic pixie dust my mechanic is unaware. The Conductor Plate swap is supposed to be completed next week after the July 4th Holiday. However they are pessimistic at the shop saying that if the gear ratio's of new tranny are not EXACTLY what are expected by front & rear diff that this tranny simply will NOT work. (wish they'd quit with the negative vibes man) Do they know what they are talking about? 2004 C4S is an A96.35 tranny. The old one is A96.35. The new one is A96.35. Should be same right? 

In the meantime I'm hoping our experts here on Renntech can tell me about any special procedures necessary when you R&R a Tiptronic transmission in a C4S. The radio's and everything else need codes. What is the procedure to marry tranny to car? I can see a scenario where I end up with 2 or 3 R&R engine/tranny drops and still end up with my whining Tiptronic. Sorry for long post but woe is me. What a bummer. Any help or advice is most welcome.

- hutch

PS - time is of the essence since transmission return to LA Dismantlers is time sensitive. If I limp mode it to the Porsche dealer in Cleveland would it seem worth the $$ to determine if its a bad tranny from LA Dismantlers or a more simple electronic issue?

[JFP in PA]

The code you are seeing indicates that either the trans is slipping, which you should be able to detect while driving, or the trans control unit cannot figure out what gear the transmission is in.  This code is often caused by the communications cable between the controller and the gear box often referred to as the ribbon cable) which often leak at the connectors.  Cleaning the connectors may help, but if it is too far gone, it is a $350 or so part.  It can also be the internal electronics plate on the valve body itself.

[JayHutch]

THANKS to JF in PA for a good response. Mechanic does not feel any slipping in short time before it goes into limp mode. See below to see why shop does not feel it's only an electronic glitch.

 

Update to my semi nightmare (sorry its long - this detail may help someone in the future):

 

My 2004 C4S has now been in the shop for 6 weeks. Time is no longer of the essence. LA Dismantlers seems to be willing to make this right, but a bit slow on the draw & I'll still be out lots of R&I labor. I still need some back up advice from our experts here on RENNTECH. This Tiptronic S (A96.35) was purchased from LA Dismantlers June 10. It arrived about 10 days later. The R&I took place 3rd week of June. No go. Transmission works for a while then kicks into Emergency Limp Home mode. Things tried: Switch the wiring harness and re introduce. Swap out the conductor plate and valve body from my old Tip to the new. (My old tip had a whine in the transfer case area, guts operating just fine) Re-program/adaptation & same result. My shop (Autobahn - Copley, OH) is not a small Durametric shop. They are an AutoLogic shop and this isn't their 1st rodeo with a Porsche Tip R&I. They seem to be touching all the right bases and are convinced the tranny is bad. 60 day "guarantee" on tranny from LA Porsche / LA Dismantlers (LAD). NATURALLY, we all wanted this tranny to work to avoid the addition time and $$ of yet another R&I.

 

It was difficult to get good timely responses from LA Dismantlers, or get them to call my shop. Customer service politely said "The owner needs to talk to you". Discussions were very polite and professional, but nothing was happening. Took nearly 2 weeks and then owner (Todd) called me and the shop. He was still convinced it was electronic in nature. He probably thought my indy shop was small time and never done a Tip R&I. I'm sure they see that often. He asked if he could overnight the TCU out of the donor car and have my shop install readapt and try. We said yes, and for the 4th time asked for the VIN number of the donor vehicle of the Tip and the TCU. That was Thursday July 9. At 8:30pm EST I received a call from LAD asking for the VIN number of my vehicle so they could program the TSU before they sent it. I did arrive it Monday. However we were still not provided the VIN # of the donor vehicles - again. (I thought that was a law or something?) The TCU Todd sent was installed. Exact same result. Tip seems to work fine until warm up then kicks into Emergency Limp Home mode. As you can tell I am racking up some significant cost in trying this 40,000 mi guaranteed Tiptronic S A95.35 from LAD to work. Weds morning once again I asked for my $$ back or a known working A.96.35 P# 722 270 06 00 C4S Tiptronic S expedited to my shop.

 

Yesterday I did receive a call that LAD was sending another Tiptronic S. Once again I asked for the VIN # of the donor Porsche for the parts we have, and to absolutely include the donor VIN # with the next Tiptronic S they are sending. "Absolutely" they will do that. Lets see. It should arrive next week. Another R&I and we hope it works? I guess there is little more I can do, but am I missing something? Also can anyone tell me an average cost for an R&I? I see the book times are around 13-14 hours. But I will have other costs for all the trial & effort LAD put the shop thru, 2 tranny fluid changes and filters, etc.

 

Too bad there are not good guaranteed rebuilt A96.35 Tiptronic S available. It's what I'm going thru, or $18,000 from Porsche. Some of you will be amused that I went thru this with LA Dismantlers, but they had the only C4S A96.35 available. I love this car and am going to bite this bullet and do what is necessary but geeeezzzz. Can anyone think of anything else I should be doing?

 

- hutch

[JFP in PA]

THANKS to JF in PA for a good response. Mechanic does not feel any slipping in short time before it goes into limp mode. See below to see why shop does not feel it's only an electronic glitch.

 

Update to my semi nightmare (sorry its long - this detail may help someone in the future):

 

My 2004 C4S has now been in the shop for 6 weeks. Time is no longer of the essence. LA Dismantlers seems to be willing to make this right, but a bit slow on the draw & I'll still be out lots of R&I labor. I still need some back up advice from our experts here on RENNTECH. This Tiptronic S (A96.35) was purchased from LA Dismantlers June 10. It arrived about 10 days later. The R&I took place 3rd week of June. No go. Transmission works for a while then kicks into Emergency Limp Home mode. Things tried: Switch the wiring harness and re introduce. Swap out the conductor plate and valve body from my old Tip to the new. (My old tip had a whine in the transfer case area, guts operating just fine) Re-program/adaptation & same result. My shop (Autobahn - Copley, OH) is not a small Durametric shop. They are an AutoLogic shop and this isn't their 1st rodeo with a Porsche Tip R&I. They seem to be touching all the right bases and are convinced the tranny is bad. 60 day "guarantee" on tranny from LA Porsche / LA Dismantlers (LAD). NATURALLY, we all wanted this tranny to work to avoid the addition time and $$ of yet another R&I.

 

It was difficult to get good timely responses from LA Dismantlers, or get them to call my shop. Customer service politely said "The owner needs to talk to you". Discussions were very polite and professional, but nothing was happening. Took nearly 2 weeks and then owner (Todd) called me and the shop. He was still convinced it was electronic in nature. He probably thought my indy shop was small time and never done a Tip R&I. I'm sure they see that often. He asked if he could overnight the TCU out of the donor car and have my shop install readapt and try. We said yes, and for the 4th time asked for the VIN number of the donor vehicle of the Tip and the TCU. That was Thursday July 9. At 8:30pm EST I received a call from LAD asking for the VIN number of my vehicle so they could program the TSU before they sent it. I did arrive it Monday. However we were still not provided the VIN # of the donor vehicles - again. (I thought that was a law or something?) The TCU Todd sent was installed. Exact same result. Tip seems to work fine until warm up then kicks into Emergency Limp Home mode. As you can tell I am racking up some significant cost in trying this 40,000 mi guaranteed Tiptronic S A95.35 from LAD to work. Weds morning once again I asked for my $$ back or a known working A.96.35 P# 722 270 06 00 C4S Tiptronic S expedited to my shop.

 

Yesterday I did receive a call that LAD was sending another Tiptronic S. Once again I asked for the VIN # of the donor Porsche for the parts we have, and to absolutely include the donor VIN # with the next Tiptronic S they are sending. "Absolutely" they will do that. Lets see. It should arrive next week. Another R&I and we hope it works? I guess there is little more I can do, but am I missing something? Also can anyone tell me an average cost for an R&I? I see the book times are around 13-14 hours. But I will have other costs for all the trial & effort LAD put the shop thru, 2 tranny fluid changes and filters, etc.

 

Too bad there are not good guaranteed rebuilt A96.35 Tiptronic S available. It's what I'm going thru, or $18,000 from Porsche. Some of you will be amused that I went thru this with LA Dismantlers, but they had the only C4S A96.35 available. I love this car and am going to bite this bullet and do what is necessary but geeeezzzz. Can anyone think of anything else I should be doing?

 

- hutch

 

First of all, there are a large number of people that dislike LAD, but most do so because of their pricing, not their parts.  They do tend to be on the high side of pricing, but sometimes they are the only ones with a needed part.

 

That said, the used parts market is always a bit of a crap shoot on used transmissions.  When a breaker buys a wreck from an insurance company, there is literally no way for them to know the condition of the unit.  And, while the trans may have been working perfectly before the crash, the accident could have changed that.  So they offer "warranties" on the units (if it don't work, we will give you another to try) in an attempt to make the purchaser more comfortable with buying a used one.  The dismantler knows that a small percentage of them are going to be bad for one reason or another, so the installation is their "quality control" mechanism to sort out the good from the bad.  While that may sound ridiculous to the buyer, it really is the dismantler's only option as they have no other realistic method to test the units before selling them.

 

That said, what I would suggest is to install the replacement and test it; if it works well, I would go back to LAD and politely ask for some relief on the extra costs you incurred because the first one was a dud.  As we live in the world of the internet, they may just surprise you and concede.  They really don't need an unhappy parts buyer ripping them a new one online over the issue.

[JayHutch]

Thanks again JFP. Seems to be little interest on this topic. Thank you very much for your responses. In case someone in the future has a similar problem, I will keep this thread updated:

 

LA Porsche / LA Dismantlers has been slow, but responsive. Even the owner Todd became involved. Last Thursday 07/16/2015 they did send out a replacement Tiptronic S A96.35. It is scheduled to arrive at my indy tomorrow 07/22. We will be doing the R&I as soon as shop can schedule. Hopefully they can start yet this week. Fingers crossed that this one will work and its not an installation issue at the shop. If they run into another issue with this Tiptronic S transplant, I suspect I should simply get the car into the local Porsche dealership for a go over and Tip troubleshooting? Naturally I will hope for the best, but if 2 Tip's don't work wouldn't it be a sign that the indy may be missing something? - hutch

[JFP in PA]

Probably the reason for low interest is the number of Tip equipped cars, they are very much in the minority when it comes to numbers.

 

I also would give your mechanic the benefit of the doubt; installing used transmission is never a fun proposition as you do not know what you have until the car is back together again.  Sometimes you get a gem, other times not so much; but that is not a reflection of the guy turning the wrenches.

[JayHutch]

Probably the reason for low interest is the number of Tip equipped cars, they are very much in the minority when it comes to numbers.

 

I also would give your mechanic the benefit of the doubt; installing used transmission is never a fun proposition as you do not know what you have until the car is back together again.  Sometimes you get a gem, other times not so much; but that is not a reflection of the guy turning the wrenches.

 

UPDATE & reply to JFP with a finished C4S (YAY):

 

Well I have my 2004 C4S back with a working & very strong Tiptronic Transmission. The replacement Tipronic S sent by LA Dismantlers was received, installed, re-coded & adapted uneventfully. While this was a very time and $$$ consuming experience, and JFP the sole responder, I still owe JFP & Renntech an update. Mainly in case anyone else picks up this thread looking for Tiptronic S replacement info or data regarding LA Dismantlers / LA Porsche. Turns out my wrenches at Autobahn in Copley, OHIO knew exactly what they were doing. Louie Pejnovik, owner and brother John were exceedingly patient and professional throughout this process. (both with me and LAD) Their mechanics clearly are 1st rate. I mentioned in a previous post that mucho time was spent trying things with the 1st Tipronic S sent by LA Dismantlers (LAD). Todd Dakarman of LAD even sent another TCU to try. I think he thought Autobahn was not competent. I'm sure he runs across that from time to time. Well they are competent Porsche certified wrenches with all the right stuff.  Autobahn also tried switched out the conductor plate, valve body and harness. All to no avail. That extra work trying to get the bad LAD tranny to work cost a great deal of $$ given multiple re-adaptaions and driving tests. Nearly $1500.

 

So how did it end up? After about 750 miles of fairly hard driving to make sure all is well, all is well. I have my C4S cab back with a strong Tiptronic S tranny and all is well with the world for now. Not any spec of oil leak anywhere. I let LAD know and they arranged to have  both my original core and the bad tranny picked up. Upon arrival at LAD I knew I would get my $1000 core charge back, but anything else? I know the "warranty" on used parts is part only but anything else? It seemed LAD may be aware of my posts here and on Rennlist, but I'm not sure. While initial response about the 1st bad tranny sent was slow, EVERY contact was very professional and EVERYthing they said they would do was done. I dealt with Caleb mostly, but also with Peter & owner Todd Dakarman. I carefully and politely spelled out all my costs. Autobahn agreed to split my costs into 3 invoices 1) Original R&I with some other work I had done since the drive train was out of the chassis. 2) Labor & parts attempting to get the bad 1st Tiptronic S to work. (We went thru a lot of Porsche ATF & filters LOL) 3) The final R&I for replacement Tiptronic S #2. I received an immediate response that Todd was reviewing. Within 24 hours Caleb advised me they would refund my $1000 core charge + $1500 for all the extra work AUTOBAHN did trying to get the first transmission going. $2500 - nice. Furthermore I was offered $1200 store credit or $600 cash for the 2nd R&I. I felt that to be very reasonable given the fact they did not have to anything, if they wanted to be the "bad guys" some portray them to be.

 

So did it still cost me way more $$ and time than it should have? Yes, but stuff happens. I drew the short straw in that respect, but LA Dismantlers made it hurt less. It could have been much worse, if it wasn't for their thoughtful professional response to the problem. As a professional myself I've always been a believer that no matter how capable you may be, stuff does go wrong. What separates the pro's from wannabe's is how they respond to a problem when it does happen. Ultimately LA Dismantlers stepped up and handled the problem very professionally. By this measure LA Dismantlers is top notch IMHO.

 

I have my beautiful 996 C4S back and feeling good again. Do I wish it had round headlights? Sometimes LOL. But this C4S is still a super car with an original window sticker of $109,000, and more car & more fun than most people will ever experience. It also helps that I got a smoking deal on it when I purchacesd it this spring. Now I have close to a retail price into the unit, but that's OK. I love the car. If you may be wondering why someone would go thru this for a lowly '04 996 - this pic and the driving experience says it all.

 

over & out.

 

- Hutch

 

 

[JFP in PA]

 

Probably the reason for low interest is the number of Tip equipped cars, they are very much in the minority when it comes to numbers.

 

I also would give your mechanic the benefit of the doubt; installing used transmission is never a fun proposition as you do not know what you have until the car is back together again.  Sometimes you get a gem, other times not so much; but that is not a reflection of the guy turning the wrenches.

 

UPDATE & reply to JFP with a finished C4S (YAY):

 

Well I have my 2004 C4S back with a working & very strong Tiptronic Transmission. The replacement Tipronic S sent by LA Dismantlers was received, installed, re-coded & adapted uneventfully. While this was a very time and $$$ consuming experience, and JFP the sole responder, I still owe JFP & Renntech an update. Mainly in case anyone else picks up this thread looking for Tiptronic S replacement info or data regarding LA Dismantlers / LA Porsche. Turns out my wrenches at Autobahn in Copley, OHIO knew exactly what they were doing. Louie Pejnovik, owner and brother John were exceedingly patient and professional throughout this process. (both with me and LAD) Their mechanics clearly are 1st rate. I mentioned in a previous post that mucho time was spent trying things with the 1st Tipronic S sent by LA Dismantlers (LAD). Todd Dakarman of LAD even sent another TCU to try. I think he thought Autobahn was not competent. I'm sure he runs across that from time to time. Well they are competent Porsche certified wrenches with all the right stuff.  Autobahn also tried switched out the conductor plate, valve body and harness. All to no avail. That extra work trying to get the bad LAD tranny to work cost a great deal of $$ given multiple re-adaptaions and driving tests. Nearly $1500.

 

So how did it end up? After about 750 miles of fairly hard driving to make sure all is well, all is well. I have my C4S cab back with a strong Tiptronic S tranny and all is well with the world for now. Not any spec of oil leak anywhere. I let LAD know and they arranged to have  both my original core and the bad tranny picked up. Upon arrival at LAD I knew I would get my $1000 core charge back, but anything else? I know the "warranty" on used parts is part only but anything else? It seemed LAD may be aware of my posts here and on Rennlist, but I'm not sure. While initial response about the 1st bad tranny sent was slow, EVERY contact was very professional and EVERYthing they said they would do was done. I dealt with Caleb mostly, but also with Peter & owner Todd Dakarman. I carefully and politely spelled out all my costs. Autobahn agreed to split my costs into 3 invoices 1) Original R&I with some other work I had done since the drive train was out of the chassis. 2) Labor & parts attempting to get the bad 1st Tiptronic S to work. (We went thru a lot of Porsche ATF & filters LOL) 3) The final R&I for replacement Tiptronic S #2. I received an immediate response that Todd was reviewing. Within 24 hours Caleb advised me they would refund my $1000 core charge + $1500 for all the extra work AUTOBAHN did trying to get the first transmission going. $2500 - nice. Furthermore I was offered $1200 store credit or $600 cash for the 2nd R&I. I felt that to be very reasonable given the fact they did not have to anything, if they wanted to be the "bad guys" some portray them to be.

 

So did it still cost me way more $$ and time than it should have? Yes, but stuff happens. I drew the short straw in that respect, but LA Dismantlers made it hurt less. It could have been much worse, if it wasn't for their thoughtful professional response to the problem. As a professional myself I've always been a believer that no matter how capable you may be, stuff does go wrong. What separates the pro's from wannabe's is how they respond to a problem when it does happen. Ultimately LA Dismantlers stepped up and handled the problem very professionally. By this measure LA Dismantlers is top notch IMHO.

 

I have my beautiful 996 C4S back and feeling good again. Do I wish it had round headlights? Sometimes LOL. But this C4S is still a super car with an original window sticker of $109,000, and more car & more fun than most people will ever experience. It also helps that I got a smoking deal on it when I purchacesd it this spring. Now I have close to a retail price into the unit, but that's OK. I love the car. If you may be wondering why someone would go thru this for a lowly '04 996 - this pic and the driving experience says it all.

 

over & out.

 

- Hutch

 

Carrera 4S-5c.jpg

 

 

:thumbup:  Glad to hear it all worked out for you.  Now go drive it like you stole it!

[fpb111]

Hutch,

Thank you for the final update.

While you did not have many replies this thread had over 320 views .  Most of us do not have the broad base of knowledge that JFP has,  If there were more posts they most likely would have been less than helpful opinion.

Glad that LA Dismantlers stood by their product.  It is nice to hear of suppliers that step up when asked.

Frank

Edited August 26, 2015 by fpb111