2011 Cayenne S Rear Brake Replacement

[jmigliaro]

Im sure this question has been asked before but wondering if anyone could help me.  I need to replace my rear brake rotors and pads.  The dealer told me there is about a MM before the sensors go off.  The price from the dealer is $1100.00 which seems pretty high to replace pads and rotors.  I have been checking around and see there are different size rotors based on the model and options.  I have a S with silver calipers which I believe is the standard braking setup. 
 

What pads and rotors should I use, I drive pretty hard and would like something with a little more grabbing power.  Also would I need to change the fronts to match the rear or could I change them when needed?  Should I just stick with the stock ones?  Why does the brake fluid need to be changed?  New to Porsche but have had BMW and Audi and don't remember the brake fluid being a big deal?

 

Thanks for the help

[APCJr]

I have the same question on my 2011 Cayenne.  The dealer quoted $1200 (parts & labor) to replace the rear brake pads and rotors because I was also just 1mm above state inspection minimums.  This is my first Porsche after owning BMW's for many years.  (Still have one.)

 

Why it it absolutely necessary to replace both the pads and rotors?  I have no reason to be suspicious.  I trust my service advisor (who was out) but there was no mention of scoring or warped rotors.  I was simply told that it is always necessary. Is this accurate?

[Loren]

The rotors should if they fail the minimum tolerances as measured on the rotor and/or thickness, runout, obvious signs of scoring, or cracks.

$1000 seems pretty steep to me for rear brakes - I would get a second quote from a good independent Porsche shop.

[JFP in PA]

Im sure this question has been asked before but wondering if anyone could help me.  I need to replace my rear brake rotors and pads.  The dealer told me there is about a MM before the sensors go off.  The price from the dealer is $1100.00 which seems pretty high to replace pads and rotors.  I have been checking around and see there are different size rotors based on the model and options.  I have a S with silver calipers which I believe is the standard braking setup. 

 

What pads and rotors should I use, I drive pretty hard and would like something with a little more grabbing power.  Also would I need to change the fronts to match the rear or could I change them when needed?  Should I just stick with the stock ones?  Why does the brake fluid need to be changed?  New to Porsche but have had BMW and Audi and don't remember the brake fluid being a big deal?

 

Thanks for the help

 

 

The stock pads are actually pretty good overall, but if you want to get more bite, there are several aftermarket brands that could help you there, but with increased rotor wear and the potential for noise.  If you are going to switch pad compounds, you would be better to do it on all four corners rather than one end only.

 

Flushing the brake system is critical on these vehicles.  Over time, all brake fluids absorb moisture which can then corrodes some pretty expensive to replace components in the ABS and stability management systems, resulting in thousands of dollars of repairs.  Brake fluid is cheap, components are not.

 

I have to agree with Loren on the price quoted; seems very high.

[wvicary]

If you're unsure of the rotor size and still have the factory unit installed, just look through the wheel spoke on the rotor hat area and you can see the overall rotor size, min thickness and part number stamped into the rotor.

[jmigliaro]

 

Im sure this question has been asked before but wondering if anyone could help me.  I need to replace my rear brake rotors and pads.  The dealer told me there is about a MM before the sensors go off.  The price from the dealer is $1100.00 which seems pretty high to replace pads and rotors.  I have been checking around and see there are different size rotors based on the model and options.  I have a S with silver calipers which I believe is the standard braking setup. 

 

What pads and rotors should I use, I drive pretty hard and would like something with a little more grabbing power.  Also would I need to change the fronts to match the rear or could I change them when needed?  Should I just stick with the stock ones?  Why does the brake fluid need to be changed?  New to Porsche but have had BMW and Audi and don't remember the brake fluid being a big deal?

 

Thanks for the help

 

 

The stock pads are actually pretty good overall, but if you want to get more bite, there are several aftermarket brands that could help you there, but with increased rotor wear and the potential for noise.  If you are going to switch pad compounds, you would be better to do it on all four corners rather than one end only.

 

Flushing the brake system is critical on these vehicles.  Over time, all brake fluids absorb moisture which can then corrodes some pretty expensive to replace components in the ABS and stability management systems, resulting in thousands of dollars of repairs.  Brake fluid is cheap, components are not.

 

I have to agree with Loren on the price quoted; seems very high.

 

Do you have any recommendations for pads and rotors?  

[JFP in PA]

 

 

Im sure this question has been asked before but wondering if anyone could help me.  I need to replace my rear brake rotors and pads.  The dealer told me there is about a MM before the sensors go off.  The price from the dealer is $1100.00 which seems pretty high to replace pads and rotors.  I have been checking around and see there are different size rotors based on the model and options.  I have a S with silver calipers which I believe is the standard braking setup. 

 

What pads and rotors should I use, I drive pretty hard and would like something with a little more grabbing power.  Also would I need to change the fronts to match the rear or could I change them when needed?  Should I just stick with the stock ones?  Why does the brake fluid need to be changed?  New to Porsche but have had BMW and Audi and don't remember the brake fluid being a big deal?

 

Thanks for the help

 

 

The stock pads are actually pretty good overall, but if you want to get more bite, there are several aftermarket brands that could help you there, but with increased rotor wear and the potential for noise.  If you are going to switch pad compounds, you would be better to do it on all four corners rather than one end only.

 

Flushing the brake system is critical on these vehicles.  Over time, all brake fluids absorb moisture which can then corrodes some pretty expensive to replace components in the ABS and stability management systems, resulting in thousands of dollars of repairs.  Brake fluid is cheap, components are not.

 

I have to agree with Loren on the price quoted; seems very high.

 

Do you have any recommendations for pads and rotors?  

 

 

A lot of people use the OEM parts, which are quite good, there are a lot of aftermarket options, particularly for the pads (Pagid, Hawk, EBC, etc.), which are also very good depending upon what you are trying to accomplish (less dust, better bite, noise, etc.).  I'd suggest doing a search on owner's opinions, as a lot of the perception of which combination is best for a given owner and vehicle tends to be somewhat a personal choice.

[sportplus997]

2011 and up cayennes require tester to place electric parking brake into service position, then on install you must "grind-in" parking brake shoes and calibrate parking brake labor is almost 4 hrs just for rear pads and rotors

[dougg996]

If your not replacing park brake shoes, is it still necessary to have park brake in 'service' mode in order to change rotors and pads?

[sportplus997]

If your not replacing park brake shoes, is it still necessary to have park brake in 'service' mode in order to change rotors and pads?

Yes, the parking brake wants to know the gap between the shoe/rotor. Since you are now changing one of those measurements, It must be told by the tester what the new gap is.

[Tom M]

 

If your not replacing park brake shoes, is it still necessary to have park brake in 'service' mode in order to change rotors and pads?

Yes, the parking brake wants to know the gap between the shoe/rotor. Since you are now changing one of those measurements, It must be told by the tester what the new gap is.

 

Since the parking brake doesn't really wear against the surface (unless you somehow drive with it engaged) I would think that it would be virtually the same after any replacement. Is this not the case? Curious as I'll be needing to do my brakes in the not too distant future.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Tom M

[RFM]

The mechanical parkbrake shoes should be set back to remove the brake disc because the inside of the disc, where the brake shoes do not touch the disc, are rusty and constitute an obstacle to remove the disc easily. It is therefore that the electric version of the system require the same treatment, resetting the parkbrake shoes to the minimum via diagnostic tool and bring back the shoes to the values at the end of the work by the diagnostic tool. This makes sense to me, sportplus997, would be right.

[dougg996]

Can Durametric used to set the park brake in 'service' mode?

[JFP in PA]

Can Durametric used to set the park brake in 'service' mode?

 

As there are no activations in Durametric for the parking brake on your model & year, I would have to say no.

[dougg996]

thanks JFP. Does that then mean that you must have access to the factory testing gear PIWIS in order to do your rear brakes, or is there an alternative?

[JFP in PA]

thanks JFP. Does that then mean that you must have access to the factory testing gear PIWIS in order to do your rear brakes, or is there an alternative?

 

The PIWIS will do it, but perhaps someone on the site has come up with an alternative "work around". 

[JFP in PA]

OK, some more data:  Porsche released a TSB (TSB #ATI-1301) entitled " INFORMATION PROVIDED ON SUCCESSFULLY CALIBRATING ELECTRONIC PARKING BRAKES. MODELS 2010-2013 PANAMERA, CAYENNE".  I do not have a copy, but you may find one on the web.

[moosey]

OK, some more data:  Porsche released a TSB (TSB #ATI-1301) entitled " INFORMATION PROVIDED ON SUCCESSFULLY CALIBRATING ELECTRONIC PARKING BRAKES. MODELS 2010-2013 PANAMERA, CAYENNE".  I do not have a copy, but you may find one on the web.

JFP, been doing some research and read on another board that when doing the rear brakes you just have to make sure the electronic parking brake is off along with air suspension, no need to calibrating or dealer tester. Also would you happen to know the torque specs for front and rear caliper bolts and rotor bolts? Any suggestions on how to push the brake pistons back in order to pull caliper off rotor? Asking because the front and rear caliper have the new brembo C caliper design.

[JFP in PA]

 

OK, some more data:  Porsche released a TSB (TSB #ATI-1301) entitled " INFORMATION PROVIDED ON SUCCESSFULLY CALIBRATING ELECTRONIC PARKING BRAKES. MODELS 2010-2013 PANAMERA, CAYENNE".  I do not have a copy, but you may find one on the web.

JFP, been doing some research and read on another board that when doing the rear brakes you just have to make sure the electronic parking brake is off along with air suspension, no need to calibrating or dealer tester. Also would you happen to know the torque specs for front and rear caliper bolts and rotor bolts? Any suggestions on how to push the brake pistons back in order to pull caliper off rotor? Asking because the front and rear caliper have the new brembo C caliper design.

 

 

Depends upon the mileage and how the vehicle has been used,  The electric e-brake shoes sit fairly close to the drum area inside the rear rotors when in the "off" position; if there is any lip on the edge of the e-brake drum, either from wear or just simple corrosion, you will not be able to pull the rotors off without tearing up the e-brake shoes.  When that happens, the e-brake has to be put in the "service position", which retracts the drum shoes to allow the rotor to be removed.  After the rotor is reinstalled, the e-brake then has to be 're-calibrated" to put the shoes back in the correct position near the drum surface.

 

The rear caliper bolts are another "conundrum".  When Porsche first went to this caliper design, there were no published torque specs, but as the same brakes appear on VW Touareg models, most shops simply used the VW information; however that has also proven confusing.  VW listed the rear caliper bolts as "single use, torque to yield" type, torqued to 110 Ft. lb. + 90 degrees.  But when we tried to buy new bolts (used on Porsche, Audi, and VW models), we found none of the local dealers either carried them in stock, or had ever ordered them, which means they had never replaced them.  The front caliper bolts are torqued to 200 ft. lb., and the disc to hub screws are 10.5 ft. lb.

 

The preferred pad retraction tool is the Lisle 25750:

 

[moosey]

 

 

OK, some more data:  Porsche released a TSB (TSB #ATI-1301) entitled " INFORMATION PROVIDED ON SUCCESSFULLY CALIBRATING ELECTRONIC PARKING BRAKES. MODELS 2010-2013 PANAMERA, CAYENNE".  I do not have a copy, but you may find one on the web.

JFP, been doing some research and read on another board that when doing the rear brakes you just have to make sure the electronic parking brake is off along with air suspension, no need to calibrating or dealer tester. Also would you happen to know the torque specs for front and rear caliper bolts and rotor bolts? Any suggestions on how to push the brake pistons back in order to pull caliper off rotor? Asking because the front and rear caliper have the new brembo C caliper design.

 

 

Depends upon the mileage and how the vehicle has been used,  The electric e-brake shoes sit fairly close to the drum area inside the rear rotors when in the "off" position; if there is any lip on the edge of the e-brake drum, either from wear or just simple corrosion, you will not be able to pull the rotors off without tearing up the e-brake shoes.  When that happens, the e-brake has to be put in the "service position", which retracts the drum shoes to allow the rotor to be removed.  After the rotor is reinstalled, the e-brake then has to be 're-calibrated" to put the shoes back in the correct position near the drum surface.

 

The rear caliper bolts are another "conundrum".  When Porsche first went to this caliper design, there were no published torque specs, but as the same brakes appear on VW Touareg models, most shops simply used the VW information; however that has also proven confusing.  VW listed the rear caliper bolts as "single use, torque to yield" type, torqued to 110 Ft. lb. + 90 degrees.  But when we tried to buy new bolts (used on Porsche, Audi, and VW models), we found none of the local dealers either carried them in stock, or had ever ordered them, which means they had never replaced them.  The front caliper bolts are torqued to 200 ft. lb., and the disc to hub screws are 10.5 ft. lb.

 

The preferred pad retraction tool is the Lisle 25750:

 

 

Thanks JFP, I have 20K miles on 2011 CS F/R pads are completely worn down but no brake pad wear light has come on yet. So if I understand right if they rear shoes are not worn and the car in in park with e brake off the rotors should come off easily? I read here a member said to make sure to have the car in neutral any reason for that? Thanks again!

[JFP in PA]

 

 

 

OK, some more data:  Porsche released a TSB (TSB #ATI-1301) entitled " INFORMATION PROVIDED ON SUCCESSFULLY CALIBRATING ELECTRONIC PARKING BRAKES. MODELS 2010-2013 PANAMERA, CAYENNE".  I do not have a copy, but you may find one on the web.

JFP, been doing some research and read on another board that when doing the rear brakes you just have to make sure the electronic parking brake is off along with air suspension, no need to calibrating or dealer tester. Also would you happen to know the torque specs for front and rear caliper bolts and rotor bolts? Any suggestions on how to push the brake pistons back in order to pull caliper off rotor? Asking because the front and rear caliper have the new brembo C caliper design.

 

 

Depends upon the mileage and how the vehicle has been used,  The electric e-brake shoes sit fairly close to the drum area inside the rear rotors when in the "off" position; if there is any lip on the edge of the e-brake drum, either from wear or just simple corrosion, you will not be able to pull the rotors off without tearing up the e-brake shoes.  When that happens, the e-brake has to be put in the "service position", which retracts the drum shoes to allow the rotor to be removed.  After the rotor is reinstalled, the e-brake then has to be 're-calibrated" to put the shoes back in the correct position near the drum surface.

 

The rear caliper bolts are another "conundrum".  When Porsche first went to this caliper design, there were no published torque specs, but as the same brakes appear on VW Touareg models, most shops simply used the VW information; however that has also proven confusing.  VW listed the rear caliper bolts as "single use, torque to yield" type, torqued to 110 Ft. lb. + 90 degrees.  But when we tried to buy new bolts (used on Porsche, Audi, and VW models), we found none of the local dealers either carried them in stock, or had ever ordered them, which means they had never replaced them.  The front caliper bolts are torqued to 200 ft. lb., and the disc to hub screws are 10.5 ft. lb.

 

The preferred pad retraction tool is the Lisle 25750:

 

 

Thanks JFP, I have 20K miles on 2011 CS F/R pads are completely worn down but no brake pad wear light has come on yet. So if I understand right if they rear shoes are not worn and the car in in park with e brake off the rotors should come off easily? I read here a member said to make sure to have the car in neutral any reason for that? Thanks again!

 

 

If there is no internal lip on the E-brake drum, it should come right off.  I have no idea why you would need to put the car in neutral, as the car is basically electronically dead when it is not running and up on the lift when doing this.  Perhaps you should address your question to that poster.

[moosey]

 

 

 

 

OK, some more data:  Porsche released a TSB (TSB #ATI-1301) entitled " INFORMATION PROVIDED ON SUCCESSFULLY CALIBRATING ELECTRONIC PARKING BRAKES. MODELS 2010-2013 PANAMERA, CAYENNE".  I do not have a copy, but you may find one on the web.

JFP, been doing some research and read on another board that when doing the rear brakes you just have to make sure the electronic parking brake is off along with air suspension, no need to calibrating or dealer tester. Also would you happen to know the torque specs for front and rear caliper bolts and rotor bolts? Any suggestions on how to push the brake pistons back in order to pull caliper off rotor? Asking because the front and rear caliper have the new brembo C caliper design.

 

 

Depends upon the mileage and how the vehicle has been used,  The electric e-brake shoes sit fairly close to the drum area inside the rear rotors when in the "off" position; if there is any lip on the edge of the e-brake drum, either from wear or just simple corrosion, you will not be able to pull the rotors off without tearing up the e-brake shoes.  When that happens, the e-brake has to be put in the "service position", which retracts the drum shoes to allow the rotor to be removed.  After the rotor is reinstalled, the e-brake then has to be 're-calibrated" to put the shoes back in the correct position near the drum surface.

 

The rear caliper bolts are another "conundrum".  When Porsche first went to this caliper design, there were no published torque specs, but as the same brakes appear on VW Touareg models, most shops simply used the VW information; however that has also proven confusing.  VW listed the rear caliper bolts as "single use, torque to yield" type, torqued to 110 Ft. lb. + 90 degrees.  But when we tried to buy new bolts (used on Porsche, Audi, and VW models), we found none of the local dealers either carried them in stock, or had ever ordered them, which means they had never replaced them.  The front caliper bolts are torqued to 200 ft. lb., and the disc to hub screws are 10.5 ft. lb.

 

The preferred pad retraction tool is the Lisle 25750:

 

 

Thanks JFP, I have 20K miles on 2011 CS F/R pads are completely worn down but no brake pad wear light has come on yet. So if I understand right if they rear shoes are not worn and the car in in park with e brake off the rotors should come off easily? I read here a member said to make sure to have the car in neutral any reason for that? Thanks again!

 

 

If there is no internal lip on the E-brake drum, it should come right off.  I have no idea why you would need to put the car in neutral, as the car is basically electronically dead when it is not running and up on the lift when doing this.  Perhaps you should address your question to that poster.

 

yep did that, thanks for everything!

[dougg996]

Moosey, the following is cut and pasted from the Cayenne 2011 workshop manual regarding rear brake caliper bolt torques:

No. 3: Threaded connection securing brake calliper to wheel carrier

M12 x 1.5 x 115 thread

(always replace screws and

lock nuts after removal)

Tightening torque 85 Nm (63 ftlb.)

No. 3: Threaded connection securing brake calliper to

wheel carrier 19” and PCCB (always replace screws and

lock nuts after removal)torque (104 ftlb.)

M14 x 1.5 x 135 thread Tightening 140 Nm

Tightening torques for front axle Page 4 of 8

Brake calliper pivot bearing

Spring strut

I got my new bolts from http://www.design911.com/

in the UK.

[moosey]

Moosey, the following is cut and pasted from the Cayenne 2011 workshop manual regarding rear brake caliper bolt torques:

No. 3: Threaded connection securing brake calliper to wheel carrier

M12 x 1.5 x 115 thread

(always replace screws and

lock nuts after removal)

Tightening torque 85 Nm (63 ftlb.)

No. 3: Threaded connection securing brake calliper to

wheel carrier 19” and PCCB (always replace screws and

lock nuts after removal)torque (104 ftlb.)

M14 x 1.5 x 135 thread Tightening 140 Nm

Tightening torques for front axle Page 4 of 8

Brake calliper pivot bearing

Spring strut

I got my new bolts from http://www.design911.com/

in the UK.

Thanks all . Did Front and rear brakes and I must say the rears are a piece of cake. No worries on E-Brake. Just had the Cayenne in park with E brake off. The rotors came of without any problems. The fronts are what gave  me a bit of problem. Calipers came off without any problems but had difficulty trying to fond where the brake line could be loosen like on 996 cars to give more room to install pads. By the for the poster who had to pay around $1100 for rear brakes, for that price I get front and rear brakes all OEM. Thanks to the members of this great board for all your help and advice!

[dougg996]

Moosey, did you use the 'assembly pins' to hold the brake calipers away from the rotors while you changed the pads, or did you just wire them up the suspension mount while working on changing the pads?

The workshop manual recommends the use of these 'assembly pins' when changing fronts but doesnt mentions using these pins while doing the rears. Also did you finish up using new bolts or not?

 

Im just about about to do my rears and your post is very reassuring. thanks