Classic "My Cayenne shifts like s***" thread

[Enzo955]

As the title reads, my Cayenne is shifting from gears 2-3 horribly under heavy acceleration and in the higher gears a bit and slow on downshifts. In auto is almost not there but in manual it is more prevalent. 

 

I know the valve body is everyones first guess but recently i have been doing a little more exploring to see what my options are before diving into a $2,500 repair. I have read that people have gone under their engine covers and replaced a thin plastic pipe near the throttle body that has for whatever reason, fixed the shifting. Also people have changed filter and fluids and have reported there tranny's were shifting great again.

 

I went to the P dealer for what was a boost leak and they ran the codes as my PSM light was on and they got P2189, lean at idle bank 2 and P2281 Throttle Plate. Said nothing about the transmission or valve body. 

 

Basically my question is what do people do to avoid the valve body right away, even its just a little better, it would be worth it in my opinion. And what is that little plastic pipe called? My Cayenne is at 97k and this is really the only real problem on it. 

 

Also if I'm gonna change the tranny fluid, what fluid should I use & how much & what filter? 

 

Car is a 2004 Cayenne Turbo. 

Edited January 13, 2015 by Enzo955

[wvicary]

These answers have been covered many times here before.

[Enzo955]

These answers have been covered many times here before.

I know this question has been asked before, but everytime I have looked i see everyone suggesting a valve body, but have briefly heard people solving shifting problems other ways. I am here looking for a more in depth explanation of other ways to solve these problems. 

 

I know the tranny fluid has been answered a million times and I probably shouldn't have asked that. Just wanted to see other options than Porsche recommend as people have also reported improved shifting from better fluids. Just wanted to hear validity on that matter. 

[Pkscheldt]

google: warner aisin transmission problem shifts

 

It's first a design issue that impacts the valve body of the transmission (MANY warner aisin transmissions) that is seriously accelerated by a (IMHO) ridiculous lack of maintenance required by Porsche. This fluid should be changed every 50K.....

 

My first CTT's been gone for some time now, but I went through the denial on the Valve Body as well. I changed the fluid three times. At first it would be better for a little while and then it would come back. It started for me at about 90K. Once it was change BTW I drove it until I sold it at 175K with buttery smooth shifting.

 

It's been mentioned over and over again, but the valve body issue does not throw codes. Its just gets worse and worse. The solenoids in your valve body are getting stuck in metal particulates and aren't actuating properly. Eventually you will have intermittent shift issues so hard it will feel as though the bottom is coming out of your car. If you want some reinforcement on this thought process go to your local VW dealer and talk to a tech about their same year T-Regs. They sold a ton of these and they are all high mile cars now that have problems with harsh shifting. Same transmission - Valve body. 

 

I've helped trade out 18 of these for other CTT's in our club, we can do it now in about 30 minutes. Have or complete a solenoid rebuild on your CTT's valve body, change fluid, feel like you have a new car. There is no short cut to this.

 

Fluid is Mobil ATF 3309, buy a case, you won't use it all but you'll get a deal online by doing so. Use oem trans filter and rubber gasket. Reset the adaptive learning on the Trans with a Durametric.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Pkscheldt

[Enzo955]

google: warner aisin transmission problem shifts

 

It's first a design issue that impacts the valve body of the transmission (MANY warner aisin transmissions) that is seriously accelerated by a (IMHO) ridiculous lack of maintenance required by Porsche. This fluid should be changed every 50K.....

 

My first CTT's been gone for some time now, but I went through the denial on the Valve Body as well. I changed the fluid three times. At first it would be better for a little while and then it would come back. It started for me at about 90K. Once it was change BTW I drove it until I sold it at 175K with buttery smooth shifting.

 

It's been mentioned over and over again, but the valve body issue does not throw codes. Its just gets worse and worse. The solenoids in your valve body are getting stuck in metal particulates and aren't actuating properly. Eventually you will have intermittent shift issues so hard it will feel as though the bottom is coming out of your car. If you want some reinforcement on this thought process go to your local VW dealer and talk to a tech about their same year T-Regs. They sold a ton of these and they are all high mile cars now that have problems with harsh shifting. Same transmission - Valve body. 

 

I've helped trade out 18 of these for other CTT's in our club, we can do it now in about 30 minutes. Have or complete a solenoid rebuild on your CTT's valve body, change fluid, feel like you have a new car. There is no short cut to this.

 

Fluid is Mobil ATF 3309, buy a case, you won't use it all but you'll get a deal online by doing so. Use oem trans filter and rubber gasket. Reset the adaptive learning on the Trans with a Durametric.

 

 

So what you are saying is that I am just in denial of the valve body? But are you saying you changed the fluid in the tranny and you for buttery smooth shifting? Or the valve body? 

 

Have you heard of anyone using any other fluids with better luck? 

 

How much to rebuild the valve body? 

 

Thanks for your help, its a shame they sold these cars with such expensive problems. Guess thats owning a Porsche though. 

[Pkscheldt]

I'm saying after 3 fluid changes I Finally changed the valve body (rebuilt) and this issue was fixed for good.

 

It is a shame that a car such as the CTT has a high cost for maintenance, but look at it this way. My original CTT was 113K in 2003 when I waited 6 months for it to arrive, I was happy to get it because there was nothing as powerful, convenient and exclusive at the time.

 

Now anyone with 15K in their pocket can pick up a used one that still looks and runs pretty darn good. It makes me chuckle a little when someone who picked up a 100K car for a small fraction of the price complains that they're a little more expensive to work on....

 

I couldn't resist.... It is a Porsche though!

Edited January 13, 2015 by Pkscheldt

[bigbuzuki]

Agree 100% with Pkscheldt.

Changing the valve body and then doing regular fluid changes will return and maintain your transmission shifting smoothly.

My 2003 turbo had the same issues which have since disappeared after the valve body replacement. That was 30k miles ago.

Being an early model, I also had to have the transmission control unit replaced as part of a TSB requirement.

[hahnmgh63]

I also agree. Porsche Mx has been extended too far. They've went cheap with many things (Plastic Coolant pipes, center support bearing rubber isolation, etc...).  Some great design/engineering but substandard materials used on some things. Now with that said I love my Pig, but I do Mx in half or less of the Porsche interval because I'm not sure how long I'm going to keep it and I'd rather cut the wear. No, I don't do 3500mile oil changes, that's stupid and causes more wear with the extra dry startups but I do 8K oil changes. I also changed my tranny fluid at 50K and will do it again around 90~100K. Although I do use Redline fluids for the most part, 5w-40 engine oil, D4 ATF in the tranny, also their Gear oil in the Diffs. 2003 & 2004's had more valve body problems than the 2005-on models. Supposedly it isn't just that there older but that the Valvebody was changed. There is also a TSB on the ATF thermostat for '03 & '04 Cayenne's which caused some trannies to get too hot, also a fluid change from the original fluid (better fluid?).

Also, the shifting can be affected by a vacuum leak depending on how large. All of the cheap plastic vacuum & PVC lines on the Cayenne get very brittle after a few years. This is affected by age, miles, climate. My '06CTTS w/74K that I just replaced the plastic Tee's on last month has a few just split with hardly any movement so I replace most all of them. At least the ones that were difficult to get at or damaged. Get that Lean condition fixed soon, Lean is never good, especially on a Turbocharged engine.

Edited June 19, 2017 by hahnmgh63

[Enzo955]

I also agree. Porsche Mx has been extended too far. They've went cheap with many things (Plastic Coolant pipes, center support bearing rubber isolation, etc...).  Some great design/engineering but substandard materials used on some things. Now with that said I love my Pig, but I do Mx in half or less of the Porsche interval because I'm not sure how long I'm going to keep it and I'd rather cut the wear. No I don't do 3500mile oil changes, that's stupid and causes more wear with the extra dry startups but I do 8K oil changes. I also changed my tranny fluid at 50K and will do it again around 90~100K. Although I do use Redline fluids for the most part, 5w-40 engine oil, D4 ATF in the tranny, also their Gear oil in the Diffs. 2003 & 2004's had more valve body problems than the 2005-on models. Supposedly it isn't just that there older but that the Valvebody was changed. There is also a TSB on the ATF thermostat for '03 & '04 Cayenne's which caused some trannies to get too hot, also a fluid change from the original fluid (better fluid?).

Also, the shifting can be affected by a vacuum leak depending on how large. All of the cheap plastic vacuum & PVC lines on the Cayenne get very brittle after a few years. This is affected by age, miles, climate. My '06CTTS w/74K that I just replaced the plastic Tee's on last month has a few just split with hardly any movement so I replace most all of them. At least the ones that were difficult to get at or damaged. Get that Lean condition fixed soon, Lean is never good, especially on a Turbocharged engine.

 

 

This is what I was touching on in my OP. How many lines are there and are there any special names for them, or just CTT vacuum lines? Ill try those first and a fluid change then ill bite the bullet and do the valve body. 

[hahnmgh63]

This Porsche website will let you download the parts .pdf for most models. Here is a link to the 9PA one which is for our cars.  If you plug the part numbers into a good website like Sonnen porsche http://sonnenporscheoemparts.com/partlocator/index.cfm?siteid=215405it will not only show you the price but it will list if the part number has been superseded to a newer one since Porsche made the .pdf.  Also you will see there may be more than one part number listed for what you think is the same item. To the right of that it may list whether it is for a Base model, S, or Turbo, or even Turbo S (M48.50 is a Turbo engine), (M48.00 is an S), (ID 9J is base), (ID 9K is an S), (ID 9L is a Turbo).  I'm almost 100% sure on those last codes but I'll double check tonight or maybe someone will chime in if I'm wrong.

Almost forgot the Porsche .pdf link:  http://www.porsche.com/all/media/pdf/originalparts/usa/9PA_USA_KATALOG.pdf

Edited January 14, 2015 by hahnmgh63

[rik881]

You can buy any filter for our tranny, the Touaregs one are perfect fit and a lot cheaper. You should do some more searching also. I had hard downshifts going from 3 back to 2. Then i changed the fluid and took out the valve body and cleaned it with contact cleaner and brake cleaner and the hard downshifts from 3 to 2 went away. Instead it started hardshifting from 5 back to 4th. I then ordered a Transgo kit for a little more then a 100 bucks. I now have the best shifting tranny i have ever driven. Without breaking the bank. 

[PaulH]

HI everyone i have a 2006 Cayenne Turbo S  with 91000 miles on the clock although i do not have violent downshifts i do have slow upshifts but when the power does kick in it can be violent and sometimes catch you out if the roadconditions especially in winter are poor but its the slow upshifts and throttle delay i fing the most frustrating would this be the throttle bodies i have been reading about or just something i have to live with ?

 

also as far as i am aware the tranny fluid has not been changed i am based in the uk so please be patient with me as i just want to get this sorted

 

thank you

[JFP in PA]

HI everyone i have a 2006 Cayenne Turbo S  with 91000 miles on the clock although i do not have violent downshifts i do have slow upshifts but when the power does kick in it can be violent and sometimes catch you out if the roadconditions especially in winter are poor but its the slow upshifts and throttle delay i fing the most frustrating would this be the throttle bodies i have been reading about or just something i have to live with ?

 

also as far as i am aware the tranny fluid has not been changed i am based in the uk so please be patient with me as i just want to get this sorted

 

thank you

 

Please do not quote your previous posts to try and "bump" it, that is against forum rules.

[PaulH]

Sorry i did not realise this contravened any rules still its nice to get a reply :huh:

[wvicary]

This topic has been beaten to death. Search the forums and make a decision to the repair. Replace the fluid first and if that doesn't fix the problem you'll need a gearbox valve body so long as you didn't find loads of swarf in the pan magnets during the fluid change.

[PaulH]

This topic has been beaten to death. Search the forums and make a decision to the repair. Replace the fluid first and if that doesn't fix the problem you'll need a gearbox valve body so long as you didn't find loads of swarf in the pan magnets during the fluid change.

 

Thank you for taking the time out to reply everyone seems so friendly :oops:

[ekstroemtj]

PaulH.....

As you can read here there are different reasons for a hard shifting.

Just my advice: get the ATF Fluid changed or better try to find someone who can flush your Transmission. With my cars it was working very well and all shifting problems are gone

[PaulH]

Thank you for taking time out to give some some constructive advice as you have mentioned there are different reasons for these issues and i did not want to have my throttle boddies done if it could be resolved with something else as my issues are slightly different as i do not seem to have the violent downshifts mine seem to be more upshifts where i could be cornering in second gear and accelerate out of the corner and there is no power at all and then all of a sudden it violently accelerates and if you are not carefull you could shunt the car in front or lose control of the car ?

[ekstroemtj]

If i was on your place i wouldnt continue to guess what it could be. Invest 300 GBP and change the Fluid. Anyway your car has some Miles and as mentioned here many times these Fluids are not made for a lifetime. Situation with my old Cayenne S was Similar to yours before i decided to flush the tranny. If you talk to people from ZF they will tell you, Heavy SUV's should have fresh Fluid after 80.000 km. This is what i learned.

[PaulH]

If i was on your place i wouldnt continue to guess what it could be. Invest 300 GBP and change the Fluid. Anyway your car has some Miles and as mentioned here many times these Fluids are not made for a lifetime. Situation with my old Cayenne S was Similar to yours before i decided to flush the tranny. If you talk to people from ZF they will tell you, Heavy SUV's should have fresh Fluid after 80.000 km. This is what i learned.

 

Thanks again i am not trying to guess whats wrong as i did not know there was anything wrong with it in the first instance having olny had the car a few months and its not a daily drive just pleasure for weekends etc  i just thought that  was how they were and thats it ? but i recently had a major service and when it came back it felt amazing but that only lasted a week or so and now it seems to be back as it was before so i am going to get my local porsche specialist to check it out can i  just ask who or what are ZF ?

Once again thank you

[RFM]

Transmission manufacturer: Zachnradfabrik Friedrichshafen AG

[4x4]

What do you guys mean by violent downshifts? Shouldn't it be that way ona 500HP truck?

When I want to overpass someone and floor my CTT (2008), when the gear goes down It feels like you been hit with a hammer. But I always though that is normal, as when I dont floor it I dont get that feeling.

[rik881]

When you change the fluid, go ahead andf get the valve body out and clean it. If that does not help order the Transgo kit or a new valve body costing 1 times more. The choice is yours. 

[ekstroemtj]

I did a transmission Flush today.

15 Liters Fuchs Titan ATF , EUR 110

Gasket and Filter , EUR 30

Flushing and Cleaning, EUR 250

The car runs much much better than before. Shifting up and down very smooth. I did it with my CS and now with my Turbo. I can recommand this 100 %

You should see the black bad smelling liquid which is coming out. This CANT be healthy for a transmission .

[PaulH]

Update regards my issues it seems it was not transmission problems it went in and was throwing up a fault showing "turbo boost limit exceeded" & "bank 1 cam shaft position"

 

So the bank 1 cam sensor and N75 boost solenoid were  replaced which did not clear the fault so both air boxes removed and boost pipes to get access to the turbo charges.

 

Tested turbo wast gates both working correctly

 

Next carried out leak test on pipe from solenoid to actuators and were found not to be holding vacuum

the faulty sections of pipe replaced re fitted air box and boost pipes

 

cleared all codes and re tested all faults are now gone and i have my beast back and it feels like a new car in another couple of months i will get the transmission fluids changed for preventative measures and hopefully i wont have any issues further down the line

 

thank you everyone for your help and comments regarding these issues :notworthy: