Porsche 911 (996) performance?

[996.solo2]

Three pages into this thread and you still seem naïve to the point.  The only thing I'm a "purist" about is making poor financial decisions.

Three pages into the post and you still seem to have trouble focusing. 

 

Whether he was joking or not, white out was talking about putting an LS engine into a 996. The purists I was referring to are the ones that would think it sacrilegious stuffing a Chevy engine into a Porsche. Talk about missing the point.

 

Anyway, there are only a few hours left in the year. Maybe you'll learn to not let things bother you too much in '15.

 

Happy New Year, all!  :D

[JFP in PA]

 

Three pages into this thread and you still seem naïve to the point.  The only thing I'm a "purist" about is making poor financial decisions.

Three pages into the post and you still seem to have trouble focusing. 

 

Whether he was joking or not, white out was talking about putting an LS engine into a 996. The purists I was referring to are the ones that would think it sacrilegious stuffing a Chevy engine into a Porsche. Talk about missing the point.

 

Anyway, there are only a few hours left in the year. Maybe you'll learn to not let things bother you too much in '15.

 

Happy New Year, all!  :D

 

 

Being "sacrilegious" never entered into the conversation.  The LS swap is an expensive proposition that typically ends up both reducing the resale value of the car as well as dramatically shrinking the pool of potential buyers for the car; all of which is purely economic rather than religious in nature.

[white out]

 

I think you underestimate how cheap an LSx and PCM can be found for. 

 

Not at all, but you are vastly over estimating what a replacement M96 can cost.

 

My comment was based on your $4,000-$7,000 figure. 

 

 

 

Three pages into this thread and you still seem naïve to the point.  The only thing I'm a "purist" about is making poor financial decisions.

Three pages into the post and you still seem to have trouble focusing. 

 

Whether he was joking or not, white out was talking about putting an LS engine into a 996. The purists I was referring to are the ones that would think it sacrilegious stuffing a Chevy engine into a Porsche. Talk about missing the point.

 

Anyway, there are only a few hours left in the year. Maybe you'll learn to not let things bother you too much in '15.

 

Happy New Year, all!  :D

 

 

Being "sacrilegious" never entered into the conversation.  The LS swap is an expensive proposition that typically ends up both reducing the resale value of the car as well as dramatically shrinking the pool of potential buyers for the car; all of which is purely economic rather than religious in nature.

 

I sold my LS swapped '99 996C2 coupe with 128k miles for $25,000 in 2013. While the swap dramatically shrunk the pool of potential buyers, it did get coverage on a national TV network, tens of thousands of views online, and sold in about a month. 

 

http://996ls1.blogspot.com/

Edited December 31, 2014 by white out

[JFP in PA]

I posted jokingly. But for an M96 replacement, the LS swap is a good option. Depending on how you go at it the swap can cost the same as a replacement M96 or $20k. 

 

So let's see; it cost $20K to do, and you sold it for $25K, and you consider that a positive?  It was an interesting project, but just not everyone's "cup of tea".............

[white out]

I paid for my swap with the sale of the M96. 

[JFP in PA]

I paid for my swap with the sale of the M96. 

 

How so?  According to your "blog", you started with what appeared to be a running and fairly clean 199 C2, that had to be worth something at least in the mid teens just as it was before you started, so if you add that to the $20K to do the swap, you had to have had well more than $25K in the car.  This is were I, and I'm sure others, are having difficulties with the economics involved.

[white out]

Look above, the sale of the M96 covered my swap. 

Edited December 31, 2014 by white out

[JFP in PA]

I posted jokingly. But for an M96 replacement, the LS swap is a good option. Depending on how you go at it the swap can cost the same as a replacement M96 or $20k. 

 

Look above, the sale of the M96 covered my swap. 

 

Then according to what you have posted so far, you got $20K for the M96?  What am I missing here?  That 3.4L is nowhere near worth $20K.

[Silver_TT]

So are you saying someone paid $20k for your m96?

[white out]

If you paid a top dollar shop to do the swap, the labor charges can add up. In my specific case, the swap cost was covered by the sale of my M96. It's really not that hard to wrap your head around. 

[Silver_TT]

It is when you're purporting that someone paid that much over market value for your m96.

[JFP in PA]

If you paid a top dollar shop to do the swap, the labor charges can add up. In my specific case, the swap cost was covered by the sale of my M96. It's really not that hard to wrap your head around. 

 

What I'm having an extremely had time getting my head around is:

 

1. I've replaced more than a few M96's in my shop, and absolutely none of them came anywhere near $20K.
2. You stated that the LS swap should cost about $20K all in.
3. You sold a 1999 C2 that was probably worth mid teens as it stood before the swap for $25K after the $20K (your numbers) swap.

Somehow, the numbers are just not making sense.

[white out]

You two are really missing the point. 

 

If you go to an expensive shop, where you're paying $150+/hr for labor, and depending on which LSx motor purchased; the swap could cost $20k. If you do the swap in your garage with a used engine, the swap will be significantly less money. My swap was covered by the sale of my car's M96, which sold within the average price range JFP stated earlier in the thread. 

 

Here's a breakdown of the costs:

Renegade kit: $4000

LSx longblock with accessories: $100-$10,000

Wiring kit: $500

Misc: $500

 

Depending on how you play it, the n/a 996 can get an additional 50hp and 100ft-lbs of torque for no additional cost by swapping to an LSx. 

The LSx responds well to aftermarket cams, n2o and boost; the 996 has lots of room for turbos with the LSx swap. So depending on what power levels are wanted, the LSx can compete with the same power output as the 996TT for a fraction of the cost per hp. 

 

Also, you guys think a '99 c2 with 128k miles sells for $20k in stock form?  :lol:

[JFP in PA]

You two are really missing the point. 

 

If you go to an expensive shop, where you're paying $150+/hr for labor, and depending on which LSx motor purchased; the swap could cost $20k. If you do the swap in your garage with a used engine, the swap will be significantly less money. My swap was covered by the sale of my car's M96, which sold within the average price range JFP stated earlier in the thread. 

 

Here's a breakdown of the costs:

Renegade kit: $4000

LSx longblock with accessories: $100-$10,000

Wiring kit: $500

Misc: $500

 

Depending on how you play it, the n/a 996 can get an additional 50hp and 100ft-lbs of torque for no additional cost by swapping to an LSx. 

The LSx responds well to aftermarket cams, n2o and boost; the 996 has lots of room for turbos with the LSx swap. So depending on what power levels are wanted, the LSx can compete with the same power output as the 996TT for a fraction of the cost per hp. 

 

Also, you guys think a '99 c2 with 128k miles sells for $20k in stock form?  :lol:

 

 

We just had a clean, stock 1999 C2 in the shop last week for a PPI, the owner was asking fifteen and change for it.  A quick search turns up several others in a similar price range.

 

Using your numbers from the previous posts, $4K for the kit, $1k for wiring and misc., and say $5k for a nice LS unit; you are at $10K before labor.  If the C2 is stock form was worth mid teens (use $15K) before you started, and using $0 for your labor, you broke even (or very near to it) selling the car for $25K.  Selling the M96 (I just purchased one for a customer, low miles in very nice condition for $4K), and you recouped some three to four or so $K.  Knowing what we charge to do a direct like for like swap on an M96 (and I can assure you that no independent in this geography gets anywhere near "$150+/hr.", which exceeds even dealer labor rates), and using that for a labor recover estimate, you are still very near break even.  And I do not believe for one second you sold the M96 for the $10K just estimated the swap cost you at $0 for your labor.

[white out]

Again, your pricing is waaay off.

 

I spent nowhere near $10k on the build and my M96 didn't sell anywhere near $10k. Like I said, the M96 covered the costs. I didn't charge myself an hourly rate, which is the most expensive part of the swap if you have someone else do it. 

 

If you can't find a shop at $150/hr, then don't expect to spend that much on the swap.  :thumbup:

[white out]

You're arguing your hypothetical. I actually did the swap. But yeah, keep arguing your point.  :cheers:

[JFP in PA]

Again, your pricing is waaay off.

 

I spent nowhere near $10k on the build and my M96 didn't sell anywhere near $10k. Like I said, the M96 covered the costs. I didn't charge myself an hourly rate, which is the most expensive part of the swap if you have someone else do it. 

 

If you can't find a shop at $150/hr, then don't expect to spend that much on the swap.  :thumbup:

 

I don't see how selling the M96 recouped the cost for doing the swap, as the numbers you posted for parts alone without including the purchase price for LS engine unit exceeds what we just paid for a clean M96 by $1K, and there is nothing "hypothetical" about that.................

[wvicary]

Does this really need to go on?? 

[JFP in PA]

Does this really need to go on?? 

 

Not really, it is over as far as I am concerned.

[Loren]

Closed - if the OP still has questions they can open a new topic.