2000 996 Engine Swap?

[Lakeview3]

Newbie here needs some help deciding what route to take. Here's the short version. I have jumped into the deep end of the pool before I learned to swim!

 

I have built wrecked cars for thirty years and have had older Porsche models in the past, just not newer water cooled. I first bought a 2000 wrecked C2 cab, 44k miles, minor left front damage.

Then I bought a 1999 Boxster, 51k miles to use as a donor.

Next, I got a call saying a local guy had a 2000 C2 cab, with 75k miles that had the motor out of it. (It is a MotorMeister victim). So, I got a smoking deal in it. Motor was tore down and on a pallet. No real failure evidence other than some metal on crank. Inspection or inventory of parts found missing cams, tensioners, etc.

Found a motor on Craigslist in Atlanta and purchased it. Owner said it was making a noise around 3-4k rpms. Filter has some very fine particles in it. Removed sump pan and only found a few small black plastic pieces. Looks to be timing chain tensioner, no metal of any sort. Kinda worried about just sticking it in the car.

Being a salvage dealer I found a 2001 C4 Coupe rollover car. Car is showing 209,000 miles. No motor history known. I went to the sale and actually started the car. It smoked, but ran. Purchased it and after getting it back to my shop it apparently hydraulic locked one of the cylinders. Removed all the spark plugs and drained one cylinder. Got the car running again and now it has water in the oil.

I have found a 2003 C2 Targa with damage, but after surfing the threads it looks like that swap might be a nightmare even having the whole car.

I have no Porsche mechanics in the local area, they are either dead or don't work on these models. The local dealer has two techs that are only trained on late model stuff and don't even have the necessary tools. I have tried to study up on the rebuild process and with the minimum necessary tools could probably handle the job of rebuild.

 

Sorry to get "long winded", just looking for some guidance, opinions, options or telling me how stupid I am. Go ahead, I can take it I'm a realist..............

Thanks in Advance

[Lakeview3]

I guess this must not be anyone here's field of expertise! I figured I could get some kind of guidance here.........

[binger]

To be honest what you want to do is a nightmare of a protect. I have been professionally working on Porsche for 29 years and would not want to even think about building a Franken car for myself. let alone having it come back back from a buyer that cannot get anyone to work on it once they figure out what was done. Sorry thats just my 2 cents.

[Silver_TT]

I saw your post a few days ago but I'm having a hard time following what exactly you're trying to do.  You mention a bunch of wreck purchases and an engine.

 

Whenever you buy parts used or from a wreck there is obviously an increased element of risk.  Ignoring that for the time being, this wouldn't be the first time folks have used donor parts (whole engine, etc) from vehicles with the same "footprint".... that said, if you are mixing and matching different models (Boxster into a Carrera) then you're likely going to be facing a massive uphill battle as Binger states.  Things like the DME are very difficult to get around if you don't have some basic set of compatibility in the parts that you are using.

[binger]

Hi Lakeview3,

 

I just wanted to give you some more information on why this is a tough project. The old days of mixing and matching Porsche is long gone! There are too many modules in cars now that have to communicate with each other. It can be done its just not practical.

 

Here are some facts you need to know. The 2000 9X6 has a 7.2 DME and the 1999 Boxster has a 5.2.2 DME. not an easy plug and play combo as the pin outs are different and totally different fuel mapping, etc. You also will need to add wires and or start modifying and fabricating your own custom looms for this nightmare. Lets say you did all the above, now the car goes to a shop to get a diagnosis for something. the tech see its a 2000 9X6 and tries to scan it with PIWIS. Hes going to get an error because the scanner dose not recognize any of the modules and might get a software/firmware error because its a 5.2.2 Boxster DME. Don't get me wrong it can be and has been done but you asked for some input.  Good luck with whatever you decide to do.    

[Lakeview3]

Thanks for the input.

I probably got the information a little overloaded. The black car in the picture runs. I bought the Boxster for a structure donor. The Boxster and 2000 996 are the same structure from the dash forward. I plan to cannibalize the Boxster for metal and suspension and sell the rest.

 

The other 996 I bought with the engine removed after being at Motor Meister. I bought another car and another engine but neither is road worthy right now. Since I buy salvage cars I have found some fair deals in 2002 and up cars. It looks like that would not be an easy swap due to electronics. When they went from five chain to three chain apparently they changed the electronics also.

A question I have is swapping in a three chain motor? Don't even think about it? Even if you have the whole car for a donor?

[JFP in PA]

Thanks for the input.

I probably got the information a little overloaded. The black car in the picture runs. I bought the Boxster for a structure donor. The Boxster and 2000 996 are the same structure from the dash forward. I plan to cannibalize the Boxster for metal and suspension and sell the rest.

 

The other 996 I bought with the engine removed after being at Motor Meister. I bought another car and another engine but neither is road worthy right now. Since I buy salvage cars I have found some fair deals in 2002 and up cars. It looks like that would not be an easy swap due to electronics. When they went from five chain to three chain apparently they changed the electronics also.

A question I have is swapping in a three chain motor? Don't even think about it? Even if you have the whole car for a donor?

 

It is more than the number of chains, the methodology of how the various electronic modules and controllers communicate has changed multiple times over the years, moving away from a simple network over twisted pairs, to extensive use of CAN bus technology, and even fiber optics.  Each technology update had an associated DME version change, killing off a lot of easy mix and match engine and component swapping.  VarioCam became VarioCam Plus and added variable valve lift technology.  Putting one of these newer technology engines in an older chassis requires a huge amount of swapping modules and fabricating harness connections to tie it all together.   While these swaps can be done, the view typically ain't worth climb as you end up with a car with more money in it that it will ever be worth, and one that scares off potential buyers.

[987_RDC]

Use the parts from the Craigslist motor to repair the 2000 C2 original motor. Then drop that into the car. (Granted the craigslist motor is also 99-01) Of course fun starts there with pairing DME/immobilizer, etc

[toddk1965]

Sell everything for a D/P on a single car :)

[Lakeview3]

Todd probably has the right idea!

987_RDC.......I am kinda scared of the Motor Meister engine. Not sure it is the original to the car. It is torn completely down to the crank. I think the Craigslist motor may get a cleaning and remove the heads and check the chains and guides.

What will I run into with the pairing?

Do these blocks have any portion of the vin stamped anywhere? I found a boss with numbers stamped but they didn't match any of the cars.

Thanks

[JFP in PA]

Todd probably has the right idea!

987_RDC.......I am kinda scared of the Motor Meister engine. Not sure it is the original to the car. It is torn completely down to the crank. I think the Craigslist motor may get a cleaning and remove the heads and check the chains and guides.

What will I run into with the pairing?

Do these blocks have any portion of the vin stamped anywhere? I found a boss with numbers stamped but they didn't match any of the cars.

Thanks

 

The engine numbers on the M96/97 are independent of the VIN numbers.

[Silver_TT]

I would be scared of anything that came from Motor Meister :)

[Lakeview3]

 

Todd probably has the right idea!

987_RDC.......I am kinda scared of the Motor Meister engine. Not sure it is the original to the car. It is torn completely down to the crank. I think the Craigslist motor may get a cleaning and remove the heads and check the chains and guides.

What will I run into with the pairing?

Do these blocks have any portion of the vin stamped anywhere? I found a boss with numbers stamped but they didn't match any of the cars.

Thanks

 

The engine numbers on the M96/97 are independent of the VIN numbers.

 

Is their a topic on here to use for decoding the engine numbers? Anyone know of a Porsche experienced machine shop or rebuilder in the southeast U.S.?

[JFP in PA]

 

 

Todd probably has the right idea!

987_RDC.......I am kinda scared of the Motor Meister engine. Not sure it is the original to the car. It is torn completely down to the crank. I think the Craigslist motor may get a cleaning and remove the heads and check the chains and guides.

What will I run into with the pairing?

Do these blocks have any portion of the vin stamped anywhere? I found a boss with numbers stamped but they didn't match any of the cars.

Thanks

 

The engine numbers on the M96/97 are independent of the VIN numbers.

 

Is their a topic on here to use for decoding the engine numbers? Anyone know of a Porsche experienced machine shop or rebuilder in the southeast U.S.?

 

 

You need to do a search, it has been discussed before.  There is a table that breaks down the engine number sequences: http://www.porscheclubgb.org/clientftp/Register/996/faq_engine_transmission_codes.pdf

 

Probably the best M96/97 engine shop in the world is in Georgia at Jake Raby's shop: http://www.flat6innovations.com/

[Lakeview3]

 

 

 

Todd probably has the right idea!

987_RDC.......I am kinda scared of the Motor Meister engine. Not sure it is the original to the car. It is torn completely down to the crank. I think the Craigslist motor may get a cleaning and remove the heads and check the chains and guides.

What will I run into with the pairing?

Do these blocks have any portion of the vin stamped anywhere? I found a boss with numbers stamped but they didn't match any of the cars.

Thanks

 

The engine numbers on the M96/97 are independent of the VIN numbers.

 

Is their a topic on here to use for decoding the engine numbers? Anyone know of a Porsche experienced machine shop or rebuilder in the southeast U.S.?

 

 

You need to do a search, it has been discussed before.  There is a table that breaks down the engine number sequences: http://www.porscheclubgb.org/clientftp/Register/996/faq_engine_transmission_codes.pdf

 

Probably the best M96/97 engine shop in the world is in Georgia at Jake Raby's shop: http://www.flat6innovations.com/

 

Thanks. I have been reading on Raby's site for an hour now. Probably can't afford the rate. I would like to attend the engine rebuild school though, but can't afford to go to Costa Mesa for the initial training through Worldpac.  

I have pictures of two of my engine numbers. The torn down one back from M/M is a 66Y which would be correct for the 2000 car (not pictured).

The Craigslist complete motor is a 66W which equals 1998 model. That would be a real early 996, right?  I bought it as a 2000 model. Seller may or may not have known. I see no rear seal or IMS leaks. The motor is plenty oil filmy but not oily wet. I removed the cam plugs and rotated. Cams are turning and appear to be ok. Seller said the motor was making a "noise" in the 3-4k rpm range. Only thing I can find is a few small black plastic piece out of the sump pan and a few in the pickup screen. No metal debris. It appears to be incredibly clean. I am tempted to install a starter and hook a battery to it and perform a compression test in the floor????

Would their be any drawbacks of using a 66W engine?

[JFP in PA]

 

 

 

 

Todd probably has the right idea!

987_RDC.......I am kinda scared of the Motor Meister engine. Not sure it is the original to the car. It is torn completely down to the crank. I think the Craigslist motor may get a cleaning and remove the heads and check the chains and guides.

What will I run into with the pairing?

Do these blocks have any portion of the vin stamped anywhere? I found a boss with numbers stamped but they didn't match any of the cars.

Thanks

 

The engine numbers on the M96/97 are independent of the VIN numbers.

 

Is their a topic on here to use for decoding the engine numbers? Anyone know of a Porsche experienced machine shop or rebuilder in the southeast U.S.?

 

 

You need to do a search, it has been discussed before.  There is a table that breaks down the engine number sequences: http://www.porscheclubgb.org/clientftp/Register/996/faq_engine_transmission_codes.pdf

 

Probably the best M96/97 engine shop in the world is in Georgia at Jake Raby's shop: http://www.flat6innovations.com/

 

Thanks. I have been reading on Raby's site for an hour now. Probably can't afford the rate. I would like to attend the engine rebuild school though, but can't afford to go to Costa Mesa for the initial training through Worldpac.  

I have pictures of two of my engine numbers. The torn down one back from M/M is a 66Y which would be correct for the 2000 car (not pictured).

The Craigslist complete motor is a 66W which equals 1998 model. That would be a real early 996, right?  I bought it as a 2000 model. Seller may or may not have known. I see no rear seal or IMS leaks. The motor is plenty oil filmy but not oily wet. I removed the cam plugs and rotated. Cams are turning and appear to be ok. Seller said the motor was making a "noise" in the 3-4k rpm range. Only thing I can find is a few small black plastic piece out of the sump pan and a few in the pickup screen. No metal debris. It appears to be incredibly clean. I am tempted to install a starter and hook a battery to it and perform a compression test in the floor????

Would their be any drawbacks of using a 66W engine?

 

 

 

There is an old adage in high performance engines:  "Speed cost money, how fast do you want to go?"

 

With factory reman short blocks costing nearly the same a some of Jake's complete engines (which would carry all the upgraded parts to replace the stuff that gives you greif in a factory engine), some of his engines are actually quite reasonable if you think about it.

 

The  black plastic bits you found in the engine are most likely chain wear pads debris (common wear item):