RevMax 09D TR60SN Valve Body (2003-2005). Uses pressure switches, B Pl

[srfrdrew]

So biting the bullet and moving forward with replacing original Valve Body with RevMax OE upgraded (Sonnax internals) Valve Body...  Deep breath...

 

Details..

 

2004 Porsche Cayenne S with 120,000 miles

 

Have had intermittent "clunk" (since owned at 50K mi).  Intermittently presents itself when slowing down from 3rd to 2nd gear as well as transition "lag" then "clunk" upon acceleration from 2nd to 3rd.  Not as prevalent in 4th and 5th gear under heavy acceleration with load as others experience/report.

 

Carden Shaft and flexplate has been inspected several times by dealer and indi and shaft reported stiff, straight and sold.

 

Transmission fluid (as well as gearbox) changed around 75K - 90K.  Fluid change did help clunk issue but has become more prevalent over time.

 

My Question:

 

I have the ability to change this out however the Fluid change procedure kind of freaks me out and I obviously don't want to screw this up.  Anyone able or available to give a hand to a fellow Pig owner in the San Fernando Valley (Woodland Hills) area of Los Angeles.? :)

 

OR.. Is there a reputable Porsche indi in my area that has experience swapping out said Valve Body at a reasonable price.  It looks like labor is about $400 to $500 not including parts.. Total about $1,200.00

 

 

[wrinkledpants]

It's not a complicated procedure.  Any indy german shop should be able to do it.  Or, doing it yourself only requires that you have a hose that can get up into the fill hole (any hose works and using a metal coat hanger inside to keep it bent at 90 degrees is easy to rig up).  All you really need is the tranny fluid temp, and that can be done with getting an IR thermometer from any auto parts store.  They're pretty cheap.  Point it at the tranny oil pan, and top it up at the required temp.  It's not rocket science or brain surgery.  Don't let some of the odd details intimidate you.  

[5thlilpiggy]

I had some rough shifting as well as an occasional "bang" going from 5-6 when letting off the gas after hard acceleration.

 

I did a filter and fluid change (used Amsoil syn ATF...NAPA had it in a 10 quart jug, so figured what the heck).  

 

R.e the fill procedure...  I too was worried about getting this just right.  

 

 - First try, I was only able to get 6-7 liters in.  I cycled the gears, tried the "fill in neutral" trick, and still could not get more in.  I was using an IR thermometer gun, and also realized different parts of the pan can vary by 10*F.  For reference, the highest part of the pan (towards the front of the car) has the hottest temp, so I would use that.   At this time the hottest point was at 106*F, so I buttoned it up and let it cool.

 

 - Next day, second try, I made sure to temp the right part or the pan.  Turned car on, shifted through all gears a couple times (including the manual 1-2), put it in neutral, and tried to put more in starting with the pan a little over 90*.  Start pumping and a few sec later (temp ~95*) the fluid comes pouring out again.

 

Frustrated, I put the fill plug back in and decided to take it for a short drive around the neighborhood.  Everything seemed fine and smooth, so I went on a little 2-exit interstate jaunt.  Shifting was much improved in all situations.

 

I was planning on a 3rd attempt at a top-off, but the tranny performs so much better that Im not sure if it is worthwhile.

 

Long story short, dont sweat it too much  :D

Edited September 11, 2014 by 5thlilpiggy

[srfrdrew]

wrinkledpants & 5thlilpiggy

Ha!  Thank you for the words of encouragement, Ill go ahead and do it myself then.. I always end up saying I could have done a better job myself when I have someone  else do it anyway ;)

 

Going to order the RevMax 09D TR60SN Valve Body (2003-2005) right now...  I'm getting their Filter, Gasket kits as well, I would assume these are quality replacements?  They said not OEM but sold many of the kits and no complaints.

 

Couple of last Q's...

 

1.)  From what I read, stay with Porsche Transmission Fluid ?  Specs? 2004 Cayenne S 5.2L

2.)  Torque specs I should be aware of with regards to the VB and Pan.  Do I need to change out any of the bolts that hold in the VB?

3.)  What to use to (solvent and or just rags) clean up the Transmission Pan and Magnets?

[hahnmgh63]

I have been using Redline D4 in my '06 Turbo S for 3+years now and it is fine. I think it actually shifts better when cold than OEM.  Some using the Mobil 3309 and say it is identical as it was designed for the JWS3309 spec which Aisin calls for as well as the Toyota IV fluid. I haven't had the need to swap out my valve body so I can't comment on the Tq specs but I can look the up for you if nobody else pipes in. I wouldn't think that any of the Valve body bolts would be one time stretch bolts there but I would Tq them properly. Just get a couple of cans of Brake Cleaner from the local parts store to clean up every thing. Wipe down the pan first then clean it with the Brake cleaner. You probably need at least 8+qts to to the whole job. Pull the drain plug and let it drain overnight before pulling the pan if your not in a big hurry as it will keep dripping for quite a while which is annoying and you get even more of the old fluid out. Do you have Durametric? Or Vagcom?  If you plan on keeping your Pig for a while I would highly recommend the Durametric software/cable.

[srfrdrew]

Hi hahnmgh63

 

Yes, I'm familiar with Redline and used it on my Audi TT that had notchy 1st and 2nd gear.  Does Redline D4 and Mobil 3309 meet/exceed Porsche OEM Trans Fluid Specs.?

If were not talking much difference in $, maybe staying with Porsche OEM fluid may be good decision?  I spoke with Mobil regarding their fluids and the type of vehicle I have.  They basically said go with OEM fluids based on my Vehicle (odd comment but thats what they said).

 

I spoke with RevMax and they said no need to replace any bolts that attach either the VB to the tranny nor the Tranny pan itself.  I did read somewhere else that there were bolts to be replaced but not sure where I saw that.  Not sure what Torque specs for VB and Tranny pan

 

Yes, I'm aware of both VAGCom as well as Durametric and yes, I should invest in one.. I do have a laser thermo gun which I guess Ill use as others have had success with it.  I will eventually have to make the durametric investment (I have a '01 996 Cabrio as well) 

I heard both sides that you need Durametric to reset "adapatation" but also hear that you don't and will relearn on its own after Trans Fluid/VB replacement

[hahnmgh63]

Porsche of course say to buy their fluid but they can't require it. There fluid spec for the transmission say's it must meet the Esso JWS3309 spec (per TSB 1/03 3702) which the Mobil 3309 was meant to meet and Redline claims the D4 exceeds as well as many others.  Remember, Porsche doesn't manufacturer the transmission but Aisin does and one version or another of this same transmission is used in many other vehicles. Even getting the OEM fluid from VW for a Touareg is cheaper than getting it from a Porsche dealer.

As far as the filling procedure goes. After you get the filter changed and the pan back on you will fill the pan (with the engine off) until the fluid drips out of the periscope filling hole.  Then you start it up and start filling again with the engine at idle and as you are filling you monitor the temperature. Stop filling of course when it starts to drip, let it drip until the fluid temp reaches 40'C. Using an IR device you may want to plug around ~ 35'C?  It is better to plug it a little early (very slight overfill) then a little late (fluid underfill).

Tightening torques

Location Thread Tightening torque [Nm] (ftlb.)

Oil inspection plug M24 x 1.5   70 (52)

Oil drain plug M10 x 1.0   28 (21)

ATF pan to transmission M6 x 25  10 (7.5)

Electrohydraulic control unit to transmission M6   8 (6) + 90° torque angle

[5thlilpiggy]

I used Amsoil ATF.  

[srfrdrew]

I just spoke with both Redline and Aisin regarding their fluid and it may be a good idea before I pony up ~$800 for a new Valve Body to just replace the Trans fluid to see if that my settle the shifting issues/concerns.  The AT fluid was replaced (along with transfer fluid) at 90K and I;m now at 120K

 

However, I'm still worried that the Valve Body may take out the transmission if I wait too long per what Porsche and RevMax has mentioned to me.

 

FYI, interesting fact found out after speaking with Aisin.  Their fluid was the original fill on our Trannys off the assembly line

http://aisinaftermarket.com/uploads/ATFBrochureComp.pdf

Edited September 12, 2014 by srfrdrew

[hahnmgh63]

Yes, the TIV is the Toyota spec fluid, which is spec'd for the older (our design) Aisin transmissions. You do not want to use the newer lower Viscosity fluid in our transmission.

[srfrdrew]

Hey Loren (if you are out there!)

 

Can you PM the actual Transmission Fluid Replacement Procedures that the Porsche Gods wrote in the bible

[srfrdrew]

Sorry to keep beating on this post but when going though the gears to esentially "suck up" the transmission fluid, should the wheels be spinning when going though the gears or should you keep foot on brake?  the car will obviously be up on stands but not sure if the the wheels and transmission should be esentially spinng while going thought the fluid addition process

Edited September 13, 2014 by srfrdrew

[JFP in PA]

Hey Loren (if you are out there!)

 

Can you PM the actual Transmission Fluid Replacement Procedures that the Porsche Gods wrote in the bible

 

http://www.renntech.org/forums/tutorials/article/310-v8-automatic-transmission-fluid-and-filter-change/

[hahnmgh63]

Parking brake on, foot on the break.

[srfrdrew]

Hey Guys..Getting ready to do the Trans Fluid Change...

 

This article from Pelican says I should jack and allow the wheels to spin when filling and changing gears to suck up the trans fluid

 

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Porsche-Cayenne/89-TRANS-Automatic_Transmission_Fluid_and_Filter_Change/89-TRANS-Automatic_Transmission_Fluid_and_Filter_Change.htm

 

I just want to confirm whether or not the wheels need to spin to get the fluid sucked up into the tranny?

 

Thanks!

[rabbit7]

I did mine on jack stands, worked well for me you can go either way though what ever is easiest for you

[hahnmgh63]

I do see an error in that Tutorial. Step 19 say's turn off engine and re-install fill plug. You actually need to re-install the fill plug before you turn the engine off or much of the fluid you just pumped in will start pouring out again.

[srfrdrew]

Thanks for the heads up hahnmgh63

[srfrdrew]

So I did the VB swap out... +1 on the fact that this a messy job...

 

Observations during and after VB replacement

 

1.)  The drained old Transmission fluid was a bit "gritty" in appearance and feel. Smelled a bit "varnishy" as well.  Magnets has some metal "paste" build up but wasn't overly excessive based on my observation.

 

2.)  The RevMax replacement VB did not include (were missing?!) a couple of small solenoids and a couple of gold screw in nut buttons (sensors?ground?) that I had to transfer over the OLD ones to the RevMax VB to make it usable.  See Pic attached.  I have contacted RevMax on why I'm missing parts on the replacement VB (not happy)

 

3.)  First impressions when driving it after replacement was the gear changes were very smooth and buttery

 

4.) However, Still noticing (at times randomly) slight hard down shift from 3rd to 2nd when coming slowly to a stop.  It's less than before but still noticeable.  I hope its not due to the fact I had to move over those two small solenoids and gold sensors/ground from my old VB.  I have not reset transmission adaptation, ordering (finally) a Durametric, for the price of Porsche to do it I can get the cable and do it myself :thumbup: Hopefully resetting tranny adaptation will smooth out the "rough edges"

 

5.)  Have not experienced (yet) the hard shift from 4th to 5th during acceleration while going around a turn, so that is good news so far.  Ill will need at least a few more days of driving to confirm that the issue is no more.

Edited December 1, 2014 by srfrdrew

[srfrdrew]

So just an update to my recent post above and for those who upgrade their VB with RevMax

 

Spoke to RevMax to get their explaination why some parts are missing on their VB...  There was never discussion on their website nor heads up from them about missing or items needed to be transfer from old to new VB.  Something I think they need to include as it was kind of a bummer when you are in the process of the VB swap out and discover this on your own and not sure what to do.

 

Per RevMax .... "The two gold switches are not sent with the valve body and never have been. It is always required to swap them from the original.

As for the two smaller solenoids are normally not sent with the valve body as there are 3 different connector style. Customers were getting confused, so we simply omitted them and had the customer swap the originals over.  Neither of these two items are failure prone or able to be updated..."

Edited December 1, 2014 by srfrdrew

[rik881]

Your old valve body could be easily fixed you know. If i were you i'd send back the one you've bought. Use search and look for Transgo kit. 

[srfrdrew]

Hi rik881,

 

Yes, I'm aware of Transgo kit.  I think I'm good with the RevMax solution.

 

There is definitively an improvement in shifting.  Again, I may need to reset the transmission adaptation ala Duramentric.  Otherwise as long as it drives now and stays that way, I'm good.

[rik881]

When i installed the Transgo kit i just drove the car for about an hour for the tranny to adapt and it never again hardshifted. 

[srfrdrew]

Well, it was a fun project either way :D

[hahnmgh63]

So srfdrew, how did you measure the trans temp?  I do it with Durametric or Vagcom from the ECU/TCU. Did you do it this way or with an IR temp gauge like others? I think it would be fine if slightly over filled but if it was under filled many times they will shift a little strange.