M1 0W40 oil change 996 C4S - overfill?

[g00sestepper]

Hi

I have just changed the oil on my car (after 5.5k miles) and used Mobil 1 0W40 - thank you for all of the information on here which really helped me. For those in the UK looking for a good deal on this oil, costco stock it all year round - £29.85 for 5 litres!

I used a porsche filter as I am awaiting my LN drain plug and spin on. I was so careful in trying not to overfill. Having read so many different fill capacities, I decided upon 8.5 litres.

Once all drained (which incidentally was 9 litres although warm), I replaced the drain plug (50 nm) and also the filter - I poured new oil into the housing (around half way up) before torquing to 25nm (something I read on here to stop a dry start?), and then filled the car. Including the pre mentioned amount into the filter housing, 7.2 litres at this stage.

I then took the car around the block to warm it up. When I got back, waited a few mins and checked the electronic gauge. It flashed on the bottom rung. The dipstick was at just below minimum. I then proceeded to put in a further 1.2 litres to 8.4 in total and took out again (as I remember reading that each rung is 0.2 litres and therefore 7, 1.4), parked up, waited and checked electronic - 1 below max. Checked dipstick and spot on max.

Happy with that, I drove home from my father's house (120 miles of fast driving) and checked the oil again after a few mins. The electronic gauge shows full and the dipstick shows ever so slightly over max.

Is the above normal? Should I be dropping some out? I have thought about replacing the oil again once the LN arrives, hopefully in a few weeks. I am kicking myself as I tried to be so careful. Also, I wanted to get the exact amount for my car so that in future I can drain it completely and fill with exactly with what I have done today so that I don't have to mess about warming up and checking etc.

On a side note, I used a magnet in the spent oil, and checked it meticulously. There was only 1 bright metal flake (around 2mm square and wafer thin). I also dissected the filter - not one metal particle. In relation to this aspect, it has put my mind at ease somewhat with all of the IMS issues (mine hasn't been replaced - 25k miles on clock).

Thoughts?

Kind regards

Richard

[Ahsai]

One way I found to have consistent reading on the dipstick is just drive the car for 1/2hr or so, then park it and check the oil the next morning. The reason is all the hot oil drains well back into the oil sump after a whole night and in the morning you're measuring the oil at ambient temp so the oil doesn't expand (as opposed to when it's hot when engine is running).

[g00sestepper]

One way I found to have consistent reading on the dipstick is just drive the car for 1/2hr or so, then park it and check the oil the next morning. The reason is all the hot oil drains well back into the oil sump after a whole night and in the morning you're measuring the oil at ambient temp so the oil doesn't expand (as opposed to when it's hot when engine is running).

Thanks Ahsai, I will check again in the morning. Why is it that there is so much stuff around checking at operating temp? Other than ensuring that the oil becomes thinner and drains to the sump quicker to ensure a more accurate reading, I am at a loss as to why this is as it expands when hot!?

[Ahsai]

Oil has a coefficient of expansion of ~0.0004/F so with 9 quarts from 70F to 220F. The oil will expand about 0.54 quart (someone checks my math pls) which is significant as the delta between the "min" and "max" marks on the dipstick is only ~1.33 quart..

Basically there are 3 major variables to get accurate and consistent engine oil level:

1) Oil temp (always measure at ambient to avoid expansion explained above. Obviously there's temp variation at ambient too but it's nowhere near 70 to 220F jump)

2) % of oil drained back to the sump (always shut down engine only after oil is hot/thin and wait overnight to allow complete drainage)

3) Car being level (always measure at the same spot)

The electronic gauge tries to be smart to estimate 1) and 2) above to compute the "wait time" to get accurate reading, then it also adjusts the reported level based on oil temp. My electronic gauge always agrees with dipstick reading if I measure it in the morning.

[kbrandsma]

Always check your oil on a flat surface. I have found my electronic gauge to be quite accurate. I always fill 1/2 US quart low below spec. when changing oil and then keep the oil one segment below full on the electronic gauge which I believe the segments are 1/2 cup segments. Always easier to add a little oil than over filling it.

[g00sestepper]

Oil has a coefficient of expansion of ~0.0004/F so with 9 quarts from 70F to 220F. The oil will expand about 0.54 quart (someone checks my math pls) which is significant as the delta between the "min" and "max" marks on the dipstick is only ~1.33 quart..

Basically there are 3 major variables to get accurate and consistent engine oil level:

1) Oil temp (always measure at ambient to avoid expansion explained above. Obviously there's temp variation at ambient too but it's nowhere near 70 to 220F jump)

2) % of oil drained back to the sump (always shut down engine only after oil is hot/thin and wait overnight to allow complete drainage)

3) Car being level (always measure at the same spot)

The electronic gauge tries to be smart to estimate 1) and 2) above to compute the "wait time" to get accurate reading, then it also adjusts the reported level based on oil temp. My electronic gauge always agrees with dipstick reading if I measure it in the morning.

Always check your oil on a flat surface. I have found my electronic gauge to be quite accurate. I always fill 1/2 US quart low below spec. when changing oil and then keep the oil one segment below full on the electronic gauge which I believe the segments are 1/2 cup segments. Always easier to add a little oil than over filling it.

Thanks both for the info here. I checked the oil level this morning - the electronic shows full, and the dipstick shows over the full line (where it is about 1.5mm over). My garage is just about level.... Could a very small difference here make that 1.5mm difference on the dipstick?

Given that I plan to change the oil again in a few weeks once spin on received (where I wanted to give it a good flush out), is it ok to leave until then (Probably around 2-300 miles in the interim) or is 1.5mm significant enough to do something about it now?

If so, I thought about dumping the oil in the filter housing, going for a drive and then doing it again? Afterall the difference must only be 200ml at the very most so doing it twice would prob drop it to one segment less than full. I would measure the exact amount removed and deduct from 8.4 initially added to hopefully get my perfect volume for next time.

Also, just to confirm, when I installed the filter, I placed it into the housing and screwed it on rather than secure it onto car and then screw housing on. Is this ok?

Cheers

[JFP in PA]

Oil has a coefficient of expansion of ~0.0004/F so with 9 quarts from 70F to 220F. The oil will expand about 0.54 quart (someone checks my math pls) which is significant as the delta between the "min" and "max" marks on the dipstick is only ~1.33 quart..

Basically there are 3 major variables to get accurate and consistent engine oil level:

1) Oil temp (always measure at ambient to avoid expansion explained above. Obviously there's temp variation at ambient too but it's nowhere near 70 to 220F jump)

2) % of oil drained back to the sump (always shut down engine only after oil is hot/thin and wait overnight to allow complete drainage)

3) Car being level (always measure at the same spot)

The electronic gauge tries to be smart to estimate 1) and 2) above to compute the "wait time" to get accurate reading, then it also adjusts the reported level based on oil temp. My electronic gauge always agrees with dipstick reading if I measure it in the morning.

Always check your oil on a flat surface. I have found my electronic gauge to be quite accurate. I always fill 1/2 US quart low below spec. when changing oil and then keep the oil one segment below full on the electronic gauge which I believe the segments are 1/2 cup segments. Always easier to add a little oil than over filling it.

Thanks both for the info here. I checked the oil level this morning - the electronic shows full, and the dipstick shows over the full line (where it is about 1.5mm over). My garage is just about level.... Could a very small difference here make that 1.5mm difference on the dipstick?

Given that I plan to change the oil again in a few weeks once spin on received (where I wanted to give it a good flush out), is it ok to leave until then (Probably around 2-300 miles in the interim) or is 1.5mm significant enough to do something about it now?

If so, I thought about dumping the oil in the filter housing, going for a drive and then doing it again? Afterall the difference must only be 200ml at the very most so doing it twice would prob drop it to one segment less than full. I would measure the exact amount removed and deduct from 8.4 initially added to hopefully get my perfect volume for next time.

Also, just to confirm, when I installed the filter, I placed it into the housing and screwed it on rather than secure it onto car and then screw housing on. Is this ok?

Cheers

Dumping the oil filter is a great way to bring and over filled car back into the correct level, and can even be done multiple times if required.

[Ahsai]

The level sounds fine to me. I find it easier to push the filter up all the way to seat it firmly first before installing the housing.

[JFP in PA]

The level sounds fine to me. I find it easier to push the filter up all the way to seat it firmly first before installing the housing.

I like to keep them 1 to 1 1/2 bars down from the full mark on the electronic level. Problem with the "full" bar is you can't see over it, so it is hard to see being over filled, which is particularly a problem on the cars without dipsticks.

[Ahsai]

The level sounds fine to me. I find it easier to push the filter up all the way to seat it firmly first before installing the housing.

I like to keep them 1 to 1 1/2 bars down from the full mark on the electronic level. Problem with the "full" bar is you can't see over it, so it is hard to see being over filled, which is particularly a problem on the cars without dipsticks.

Makes sense. The OP used the dipstick and said "...the dipstick shows over the full line (where it is about 1.5mm over)." I would not think that 1.5mm makes any appreciable diff hence my comment. But yea if you're worried about 1.5mm overfill on the dipstick, you can always remove the oil from the filter like John suggested.

[kbrandsma]

+1 for dumping the oil in the oil filter. Pretty simple fix.

[g00sestepper]

The level sounds fine to me. I find it easier to push the filter up all the way to seat it firmly first before installing the housing.

I like to keep them 1 to 1 1/2 bars down from the full mark on the electronic level. Problem with the "full" bar is you can't see over it, so it is hard to see being over filled, which is particularly a problem on the cars without dipsticks.

The level sounds fine to me. I find it easier to push the filter up all the way to seat it firmly first before installing the housing.

I like to keep them 1 to 1 1/2 bars down from the full mark on the electronic level. Problem with the "full" bar is you can't see over it, so it is hard to see being over filled, which is particularly a problem on the cars without dipsticks.

Makes sense. The OP used the dipstick and said "...the dipstick shows over the full line (where it is about 1.5mm over)." I would not think that 1.5mm makes any appreciable diff hence my comment. But yea if you're worried about 1.5mm overfill on the dipstick, you can always remove the oil from the filter like John suggested.

Thanks guys, feel more comfortable about it now and more informed for next time. I won't be overly concerned about dropping some this time..... If I'm at a loose end, I now have an excuse to tinker.

For future reference, if I remove the filter housing to complete the above, does the o ring need to be changed again or is it ok to reuse if only a few days old?

Cheers

[Ahsai]

The few days old o-ring should be fine :)

[g00sestepper]

The few days old o-ring should be fine :)

Thanks. Just wanted to make sure that it is not a use once type of fitting like the sump washer, and more a time degrading type of arrangement.

[kbrandsma]

Yes, just like Ahsai states, the o-ring can be re-used.

[RD996]

Always check your oil on a flat surface. I have found my electronic gauge to be quite accurate. I always fill 1/2 US quart low below spec. when changing oil and then keep the oil one segment below full on the electronic gauge which I believe the segments are 1/2 cup segments. Always easier to add a little oil than over filling it.

Curious about your comment above. The manual says the difference between the low and high mark on the dipstick is 1.5 liters which is a little over 6 cups. On my car there are 6 segments on the electronic level gauge which would translate to approx 1 cup per segment. Does the gauge represent the entire low to high range on the dipstick or half the range as you stated above?

[RKH]

You can also stick a 1/4" OD hose down the dipstick tube and suck some oil out

[JFP in PA]

You can also stick a 1/4" OD hose down the dipstick tube and suck some oil out

That is a very bad idea for multiple reasons. Not all the car have a dipstick. Of those that do, you would be surprised at how many people try this, only to find they cannot pull the hose back out as it has become caught on one of the many sharp edged items in the sump. When that happens, you have to remove the sump cover to get the hose out.

The safe way to remove excess oil is emptying the filter housing.

[g00sestepper]

Thank you for your suggestion.

I must admit, my friend has one similar to this;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TP69-SEALEY-MANUAL-6-5-LTR-VACUUM-OIL-FLUID-EXTRACTOR-/281325121434

And swears by it as he does 100,000 miles per annum so changes his oil quite frequently.... I have always felt a bit dubious about it

[JFP in PA]

Thank you for your suggestion.

I must admit, my friend has one similar to this;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TP69-SEALEY-MANUAL-6-5-LTR-VACUUM-OIL-FLUID-EXTRACTOR-/281325121434

And swears by it as he does 100,000 miles per annum so changes his oil quite frequently.... I have always felt a bit dubious about it

Your friend should also be aware that these things are notorious for leave quite a bit of old, dirty oil behind as well.

[g00sestepper]

Thanks John, I will let him know. I wouldn't use one but each to their own I suppose.

On the topic of oil changes, I have the LN spin on on order where I understand that the filter has to be changed every 6k as it is smaller. I do plan to change the oil every 6k anyway so not an issue.

My car has a full Opc service history and I plan to continue this.

1. Will they service it with this on? Do I just supply the filter when I take it in and make them aware of it?

2. I would like to continue using m1 0w40 and I have noticed on a service receipt that they used Castrol long life 0w40 last time. Due to this, can I also supply the oil with the filter? As detailed at the start of this thread, I can get it for about 25% of the price of what they charge so would also save me quite a bit of cash.

3. Upon perusing my service book, I have noticed that some of the stamps are missing, not for the actual services but for airbag check and brake fluid change (although the receipts and checklists confirm it has been done). Will they have a record of this and stamp my book accordingly (different Opc)?

As you may be able to tell, I am totally and utterly anal, and even more so in relation to my car. I therefore apologise for going thread through needle.

[JFP in PA]

Thanks John, I will let him know. I wouldn't use one but each to their own I suppose.

On the topic of oil changes, I have the LN spin on on order where I understand that the filter has to be changed every 6k as it is smaller. I do plan to change the oil every 6k anyway so not an issue.

My car has a full Opc service history and I plan to continue this.

1. Will they service it with this on? Do I just supply the filter when I take it in and make them aware of it?

2. I would like to continue using m1 0w40 and I have noticed on a service receipt that they used Castrol long life 0w40 last time. Due to this, can I also supply the oil with the filter? As detailed at the start of this thread, I can get it for about 25% of the price of what they charge so would also save me quite a bit of cash.

3. Upon perusing my service book, I have noticed that some of the stamps are missing, not for the actual services but for airbag check and brake fluid change (although the receipts and checklists confirm it has been done). Will they have a record of this and stamp my book accordingly (different Opc)?

As you may be able to tell, I am totally and utterly anal, and even more so in relation to my car. I therefore apologise for going thread through needle.

I see no reason why the OPC would object to the spin on filter, other than they may not have a replacement filter on hand, or know which size to use. If you supplied the filter, it would supplant any objections, and you would have control of the quality of filter used. Some dealers here actually carry the correct filter in stock as many of their customers use them.

Not to start an "oil war", but if they are using Castrol rather than Mobil 1, I'd let them do just that. :thumbup:

The OPC should have your complete records on their computer, and should be able to update your records for you.

You may look at it as being "OCD", but maintaining records and being specific about how your car is cared for will pay you back when you go to sell it.