Oil Filter Dissection Looks Like A Yard Sale

[PorscheServiceThen529Plan]

2001 C4 Cab with 60k miles. Bought it 7 months and 6k miles ago. PPI at dealer ---> did new clutch, preventive LN IMS, full service. Runs fine but clutch vibrates/pulsates at idle. Just did oil change and filter. Dissected filter with 6k miles since dealer last did it just after PPI. Never opened a filter before but found a fair amount of debris. Please help diagnose if this is normal or impending doom! Searched and read threads but am unclear if I have a problem. Two kinds of material - brown plastic, some shavings look almost translucent. This was most of the mass by far. I concentrated probably half of what was in the filter and took pics (some under microscope) with 1/64th inch rule. Guessing that is chain tensioner? Is that too much? The second material was metal shavings (no flakes) not one spec of it was ferrous - none of the particles had the slightest interest in a strong neodymium magnet. I am thinking must be aluminum - I can see its clearly shaved/cut particles all in two shapes - only 10 or so 1/8 inch long or shorter needle shaped barely 1/64th wide (more microscope pics with rule). Then there were a couple hundred (maybe 5 to a pleat) very small non-ferrous metal particles/flakes. the metal particles are about 3 thous thick and 10 thous wide and long. I am really hoping someone knowledgeable says this is within ok range. Any insight GREATLY appreciated!! thanks,

[fpb111]

Little more then normal not catastrophic yet. Change the filter in 1k miles and see if more, or less debris.

[JFP in PA]

2001 C4 Cab with 60k miles. Bought it 7 months and 6k miles ago. PPI at dealer ---> did new clutch, preventive LN IMS, full service. Runs fine but clutch vibrates/pulsates at idle. Just did oil change and filter. Dissected filter with 6k miles since dealer last did it just after PPI. Never opened a filter before but found a fair amount of debris. Please help diagnose if this is normal or impending doom! Searched and read threads but am unclear if I have a problem. Two kinds of material - brown plastic, some shavings look almost translucent. This was most of the mass by far. I concentrated probably half of what was in the filter and took pics (some under microscope) with 1/64th inch rule. Guessing that is chain tensioner? Is that too much? The second material was metal shavings (no flakes) not one spec of it was ferrous - none of the particles had the slightest interest in a strong neodymium magnet. I am thinking must be aluminum - I can see its clearly shaved/cut particles all in two shapes - only 10 or so 1/8 inch long or shorter needle shaped barely 1/64th wide (more microscope pics with rule). Then there were a couple hundred (maybe 5 to a pleat) very small non-ferrous metal particles/flakes. the metal particles are about 3 thous thick and 10 thous wide and long. I am really hoping someone knowledgeable says this is within ok range. Any insight GREATLY appreciated!! thanks,

As you found no ferrous materials, I would not be overly concerned. It is not unusual to see a bit more debris in the first oil filter after an IMS retrofit. The plastic looking bits are normal chain pad wear, again nothing unusual.

I would suggest moving from the OEM style filter with its known by-pass issues and switching to a "full flow" (read 100% filtration at all times) spin on set up. While it will make checking the filter a bit more difficult, the superior filtration would be highly beneficial. And even if you do not change filter styles, I would change your filter again in about 1K miles to see if this clears up.

[roadsession]

Send your used oil to blackstone for oil analysis.

[PorscheServiceThen529Plan]

2001 C4 Cab with 60k miles. Bought it 7 months and 6k miles ago. PPI at dealer ---> did new clutch, preventive LN IMS, full service. Runs fine but clutch vibrates/pulsates at idle. Just did oil change and filter. Dissected filter with 6k miles since dealer last did it just after PPI. Never opened a filter before but found a fair amount of debris. Please help diagnose if this is normal or impending doom! Searched and read threads but am unclear if I have a problem. Two kinds of material - brown plastic, some shavings look almost translucent. This was most of the mass by far. I concentrated probably half of what was in the filter and took pics (some under microscope) with 1/64th inch rule. Guessing that is chain tensioner? Is that too much? The second material was metal shavings (no flakes) not one spec of it was ferrous - none of the particles had the slightest interest in a strong neodymium magnet. I am thinking must be aluminum - I can see its clearly shaved/cut particles all in two shapes - only 10 or so 1/8 inch long or shorter needle shaped barely 1/64th wide (more microscope pics with rule). Then there were a couple hundred (maybe 5 to a pleat) very small non-ferrous metal particles/flakes. the metal particles are about 3 thous thick and 10 thous wide and long. I am really hoping someone knowledgeable says this is within ok range. Any insight GREATLY appreciated!! thanks,

As you found no ferrous materials, I would not be overly concerned. It is not unusual to see a bit more debris in the first oil filter after an IMS retrofit. The plastic looking bits are normal chain pad wear, again nothing unusual.

I would suggest moving from the OEM style filter with its known by-pass issues and switching to a "full flow" (read 100% filtration at all times) spin on set up. While it will make checking the filter a bit more difficult, the superior filtration would be highly beneficial. And even if you do not change filter styles, I would change your filter again in about 1K miles to see if this clears up.

JFP - I am Feeling better! Many thanks. I am ordering the LN Spin-on and will replace the filter in 1K and see what it is up. Perfect plan for me actually as the OEM oil filter housing is just stripped enough by prior owner that I could not torque it properly without the filter wrench hopping around/off and was going to get a new housing anyway. When I saw this pile of junk in the filter my first that was that I could now see why you recommend the LN Spin-on- had no idea this much junk could be floating around and the idea of some of it bypassing the filter for a cycle in the engine is not appealing. Curious why it would be worse after IMS retrofit, thanks again.

[PorscheServiceThen529Plan]

Re Blackstone - I tossed my old oil already but if I see more signs of trouble I think I might do that. thanks

[JFP in PA]

2001 C4 Cab with 60k miles. Bought it 7 months and 6k miles ago. PPI at dealer ---> did new clutch, preventive LN IMS, full service. Runs fine but clutch vibrates/pulsates at idle. Just did oil change and filter. Dissected filter with 6k miles since dealer last did it just after PPI. Never opened a filter before but found a fair amount of debris. Please help diagnose if this is normal or impending doom! Searched and read threads but am unclear if I have a problem. Two kinds of material - brown plastic, some shavings look almost translucent. This was most of the mass by far. I concentrated probably half of what was in the filter and took pics (some under microscope) with 1/64th inch rule. Guessing that is chain tensioner? Is that too much? The second material was metal shavings (no flakes) not one spec of it was ferrous - none of the particles had the slightest interest in a strong neodymium magnet. I am thinking must be aluminum - I can see its clearly shaved/cut particles all in two shapes - only 10 or so 1/8 inch long or shorter needle shaped barely 1/64th wide (more microscope pics with rule). Then there were a couple hundred (maybe 5 to a pleat) very small non-ferrous metal particles/flakes. the metal particles are about 3 thous thick and 10 thous wide and long. I am really hoping someone knowledgeable says this is within ok range. Any insight GREATLY appreciated!! thanks,

As you found no ferrous materials, I would not be overly concerned. It is not unusual to see a bit more debris in the first oil filter after an IMS retrofit. The plastic looking bits are normal chain pad wear, again nothing unusual.

I would suggest moving from the OEM style filter with its known by-pass issues and switching to a "full flow" (read 100% filtration at all times) spin on set up. While it will make checking the filter a bit more difficult, the superior filtration would be highly beneficial. And even if you do not change filter styles, I would change your filter again in about 1K miles to see if this clears up.

JFP - I am Feeling better! Many thanks. I am ordering the LN Spin-on and will replace the filter in 1K and see what it is up. Perfect plan for me actually as the OEM oil filter housing is just stripped enough by prior owner that I could not torque it properly without the filter wrench hopping around/off and was going to get a new housing anyway. When I saw this pile of junk in the filter my first that was that I could now see why you recommend the LN Spin-on- had no idea this much junk could be floating around and the idea of some of it bypassing the filter for a cycle in the engine is not appealing. Curious why it would be worse after IMS retrofit, thanks again.

During the process of extracting and reinstalling the IMS bearing, it is not unusual to generate some small metal bits (prying off the heat set cover flange, forcibly extracting the bearing, hammering in the replacement, etc.), does not happen every time, but if a few bits show up in the first oil change it is not something to be overly concerned about. You also have to remember that not every installer is as meticulously clean as perhaps they should be and does not thoroughly check for any debris.

One of the biggest, and perhaps least recognized problems with the OEM cartridge style filter set up in the by-pass valve in the bottom of the plastic housing. It is not at all unusual to find them partially or completely open, which means anywhere from some to nearly all the oil is going around the filter media. Not a good thing. Another advantage to the spin on is that you can employ a FilterMag type magnet on the spin on which will trap any ferrous debris in the engine that is too small (less than 15 microns) to be picked up the filter media. People that try one of these magnets are often quite surprised at how much fine ferrous debris shows up in the first filter change. Also be aware that with the spin on, you will need to cut open the metal housing to check the filter media. This can be done a variety of ways, ranging from a big tubing cutter, to a hacksaw, or even with an relatively inexpensive filter housing cutting tool.

[BAD124]

If you want to take it one step further, I've installed a SS mesh filter and like it - http://www.kandpengineering.com/S16.shtml

Inspection is part of the cleaning process so its impossible to miss anything and you'll never have to buy another filter. Also contains an imbedded magnet in the element for extra capturing of loose metal

Edited March 28, 2014 by BAD124

[Dennis Nicholls]

One of the biggest, and perhaps least recognized problems with the OEM cartridge style filter set up in the by-pass valve in the bottom of the plastic housing. It is not at all unusual to find them partially or completely open, which means anywhere from some to nearly all the oil is going around the filter media. Not a good thing.

Would it make sense to get a replacement OEM plastic housing if the original is still in use after many years? I'd guess the bypass valve may get sticky with age/debris. Or perhaps use shop air to "back blow" the valve and dislodge any contaminants.

Until the weather improves etc. and I can perform a IMS bearing upgrade this summer, I'm just checking the paper filter at short intervals (i.e. every 600 miles).

[JFP in PA]

One of the biggest, and perhaps least recognized problems with the OEM cartridge style filter set up in the by-pass valve in the bottom of the plastic housing. It is not at all unusual to find them partially or completely open, which means anywhere from some to nearly all the oil is going around the filter media. Not a good thing.

Would it make sense to get a replacement OEM plastic housing if the original is still in use after many years? I'd guess the bypass valve may get sticky with age/debris. Or perhaps use shop air to "back blow" the valve and dislodge any contaminants.

Until the weather improves etc. and I can perform a IMS bearing upgrade this summer, I'm just checking the paper filter at short intervals (i.e. every 600 miles).

You would be better off to dump the OEM style entirely and go spin on; totally puts an end to the by pass valve issue.

[BAD124]

One of the biggest, and perhaps least recognized problems with the OEM cartridge style filter set up in the by-pass valve in the bottom of the plastic housing. It is not at all unusual to find them partially or completely open, which means anywhere from some to nearly all the oil is going around the filter media. Not a good thing.

Would it make sense to get a replacement OEM plastic housing if the original is still in use after many years? I'd guess the bypass valve may get sticky with age/debris. Or perhaps use shop air to "back blow" the valve and dislodge any contaminants.

Until the weather improves etc. and I can perform a IMS bearing upgrade this summer, I'm just checking the paper filter at short intervals (i.e. every 600 miles).

I think its actually a spring that looses tension over time and heat cycles. You could replace the housing, but it will wear out eventually. Go the full filtration route as JFP suggested, as long as you stay away from extended intervals (10,000 miles as the filter element will be smaller surface area)

[Dennis Nicholls]

I think its actually a spring that looses tension over time and heat cycles. You could replace the housing, but it will wear out eventually. Go the full filtration route as JFP suggested, as long as you stay away from extended intervals (10,000 miles as the filter element will be smaller surface area)

So is the reason Porsche went with a cartridge type filter mostly to support long oil change intervals? :confused:

Before buying my Boxster, I hadn't seen one in ages....since I sold my last old British sportscar years ago.

[dgjks6]

I think the reason for cartridge type filters in environmental?

[John Matthias Syrinek]

Same question. Also, what's the point of the bypass valve? I'm guessing to prevent oil starvation under high loads. Is it safe to eliminate this?

The stainless filter that never has to be replaced seems cool. Why don't these come with the car?

[JFP in PA]

Same question. Also, what's the point of the bypass valve? I'm guessing to prevent oil starvation under high loads. Is it safe to eliminate this?

The stainless filter that never has to be replaced seems cool. Why don't these come with the car?

Not really sure why Porsche used the cartridge style filter, it may be something as simple as a design they had used before and were comfortable with, or it was cheap.

The by-pass valve is designed to open if the oil filter becomes completely clogged with debris or on a very cold start (0F or lower) with very thick conventional oils. The truth of the matter is that with multi weight full synthetic oils, the cold start issue has already been addressed, which is why many OEM's have totally gotten away from using by-pass systems, and even those that still use them put them into a spin on filter so you get a new valve at every oil change. And before someone asks, if your filter became totally clogged by metallic debris while running, your engine is already dead and needs to come out for rebuild or replacement, so the by-pass has become totally superfluous.

The stainless filter is expensive, takes time to clean properly, and has multiple parts sealed with O-rings, so they can leak if not reassembled properly. You can get a throw away spin on with a full synthetic media and finer pore sizes for around $8 that will never leak and does not have to be disassembled and cleaned every time.

[RFM]

According the manufacturer, the cartridge type oil filter is inserted for environmental reasons.

The bypass valve is used especially with cold engine, when the oil is thick and difficult to penetrate the paper filter, to prevent tearing off the paper by pressure. Let the valve where she is. It is therefore important to maintain the oil viscosity specified by the manufacturer. Also for the hex shaft of the oil pump, which can twist and break down at a later stage. Cold too thick oil requires too much force where the engine is not designed for.

[Dennis Nicholls]

Most cars I've worked on before have TWO oil bypass valves.

One in the oil pump, to limit cold start oil pressure to something like 80 psi. This valve dumps oil back into the sump.

One in the oil filter, to bypass the filter element if it gets clogged. This valve opens if there is a pressure drop across the filter element. I guess the thinking is dirty oil is better than NO oil.

[JFP in PA]

According the manufacturer, the cartridge type oil filter is inserted for environmental reasons.

The bypass valve is used especially with cold engine, when the oil is thick and difficult to penetrate the paper filter, to prevent tearing off the paper by pressure. Let the valve where she is. It is therefore important to maintain the oil viscosity specified by the manufacturer. Also for the hex shaft of the oil pump, which can twist and break down at a later stage. Cold too thick oil requires too much force where the engine is not designed for.

Help me understand the "environmental" aspect of the cartridge style oil filter; both style filters use materials of construction which are totally recyclable, so how is one more "environmentally friendly" than the other?

The spin on filters (Wix/NAPA "XP" filters) we use do not have paper media, but use a fully synthetic material that is both finer in pore diameter and considerably stronger than the paper style.

[JFP in PA]

Most cars I've worked on before have TWO oil bypass valves.

One in the oil pump, to limit cold start oil pressure to something like 80 psi. This valve dumps oil back into the sump.

One in the oil filter, to bypass the filter element if it gets clogged. This valve opens if there is a pressure drop across the filter element. I guess the thinking is dirty oil is better than NO oil.

The valve at the pump is a pressure regulating valve that limits the upper oil pressure reached, it is not designed to do anything if the filter becomes clogged other than control the maximum pressure.

When the oil filter becomes clogged, exactly what will it be clogged with? Usually metal debris from a disintegrating engine, and running it with the metal circulating rather than tripping the oil pressure light and shutting it down will end up only worsening the already existing damage. A larger and longer term issue is that the by-pass valve sticks open all the time, so little or nothing is filtered. If you want to read more about the rational for going full flow, Excellence Magazine had a tech article that expanded on the multiple reasons to get away from the by-pass system. We have many customers, both on the street and the track, that run full flow setups and have done for years, no problems.

[RFM]

It is required by law oil-containing materials such as filters, to separate the metal parts from the paper parts, this takes extra time (costs), therefore only paper elements are used.

[JFP in PA]

It is required by law oil-containing materials such as filters, to separate the metal parts from the paper parts, this takes extra time (costs), therefore only paper elements are used.

Interesting. Here they no longer require separating the types of recyclable materials in most states, everything goes into a single container and the types of materials are separated by automated systems at the recovery point.

[RFM]

Great, a decade a go that was also the case, now whe can do it ourselves, what a progress we have made.

[JFP in PA]

Great, a decade a go that was also the case, now whe can do it ourselves, what a progress we have made.

Well, here it was politically expedient to go to this method of "single stream" recycling, most local governments discovered that if you required the user to separate the material types, no one did it and everything just went into landfill trash. So by installing the separation hardware, the recycling was actually being used because it was simpler, just throw anything recyclable into the recycle container and the collection point facility does the rest. Actually lowered overall costs because less ended up going into the landfill. A win-win solution.

[BAD124]

Same question. Also, what's the point of the bypass valve? I'm guessing to prevent oil starvation under high loads. Is it safe to eliminate this?

The stainless filter that never has to be replaced seems cool. Why don't these come with the car?

The stainless filter is expensive, takes time to clean properly, and has multiple parts sealed with O-rings, so they can leak if not reassembled properly. You can get a throw away spin on with a full synthetic media and finer pore sizes for around $8 that will never leak and does not have to be disassembled and cleaned every time.

I agree it is pricey, but personally I think the benefits of thorough inspection + the additional magnet are worth it. Cleaning can be done in the 5-10 mins it takes to let the oil fully drain. And if your cutting open a spin on filter, that will take time as well as you have to dissect the paper element.

The K&P only uses 1 o-ring which is located in the same spot as a normal spin on filter (where it meets the adapter) so it would only leak if one failed to tighten properly. Also acts as a mini heat sink (though probably not a dramatic effect)

Edited March 30, 2014 by BAD124

[JFP in PA]

Same question. Also, what's the point of the bypass valve? I'm guessing to prevent oil starvation under high loads. Is it safe to eliminate this?

The stainless filter that never has to be replaced seems cool. Why don't these come with the car?

The stainless filter is expensive, takes time to clean properly, and has multiple parts sealed with O-rings, so they can leak if not reassembled properly. You can get a throw away spin on with a full synthetic media and finer pore sizes for around $8 that will never leak and does not have to be disassembled and cleaned every time.

I agree it is pricey, but personally I think the benefits of thorough inspection + the additional magnet are worth it. Cleaning can be done in the 5-10 mins it takes to let the oil fully drain. And if your cutting open a spin on filter, that will take time as well.

The K&P only uses 1 o-ring which is located in the same spot as a normal spin on filter, where it meets the adapter. Also acts as a mini heat sink (though probably not a dramatic effect)

You can also hang a FilterMag on the outside of the throw away spin on as well; many of my customers do exactly that.