Anyone disappointed with the 997 and Porsche?

[bnewport]

As a 911 owner, I don't understand what Porsche is up to. The Boxster started around 210 bhp and now with the Cayman has 302 bhp. The 911 over the same time period went from 300bhp to 355bhp. So thats 50% boost versus 16%. The new Cayman looks a very fast car, too fast.

When Ferrari have gone from 385bhp to 489bhp, I don't see the 997 holding it's own. The new GT3 better make at least the 500 bhp plus if it's to stay with the 430 Stradale when it arrives. Looks like Ferrari finally put the electronics etc on their car also.

I don't understand the Cayman strategy. It sole purpose looks to undermine the resale for 996 owners given the Cayman is likely a faster and better handling car.

Anyone else got any opinions?

[LVDell]

First off, the Cayman is a totally different car for a different type of driver. It is not set to undermine the 911 sales, but that is yet to be seen. As for your claims of 302hp those numbers have NEVER been released. If anything the CaymanS with not cross the 300 mark, probably be about 295 and the based model Cayman (to be released later) will probably be down in the 240 range like the base model Boxster.

[bnewport]

First off, the Cayman is a totally different car for a different type of driver.  It is not set to undermine the 911 sales, but that is yet to be seen.  As for your claims of 302hp those numbers have NEVER been released.  If anything the CaymanS with not cross the 300 mark, probably be about 295 and the based model Cayman (to be released later) will probably be down in the 240 range like the base model Boxster.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

None the less, it appears the 911s are being neglected by Porsche when compared with Boxster owners and Ferrari owners in terms of engine development. I know the 996 handling has improved most years from 1999 to the present but so too has the competitions AND they have engine development also. I wonder what the new GT3 and Turbos will develop given the 997S probably isn't competitive with the 430 but the Turbo is probably a fairer 430 competitor looking at price. But, as we saw with the GT3 and Stradale, the turbo wasn't competitive with the 360, that job fell to the Gt3.

Edited March 27, 2005 by bnewport

[Kiko]

Have you driven the 997? Its a true supercar with the smoothness of a VW golf and the efficiency of a race car! They did it right!

[PorschePRH]

Have you driven the 997? Its a true supercar with the smoothness of a VW golf and the efficiency of a race car! They did it right!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can the shocks and springs be adapted to a 03 C2 so I can have a smooth ride?

[geoff]

As a 911 owner, I don't understand what Porsche is up to. ... 

 

I don't understand the Cayman strategy. It sole purpose looks to undermine the resale for 996 owners given the Cayman is likely a faster and better handling car. 

 

Anyone else got any opinions?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My wife's 997 is the first of any kind of 911 I've ever driven. It's not broken in yet, so no comments on performance, handling, etc., but if you believe the reviews, the base 997 is an exceptional performance and handling car. My wife couldn't care less about that. She was looking at the 7 series BMW, Merc S-500, Audi A 8, Lexus LS, big Jag, etc. She also briefly looked at the SL500. The 997 is at least as luxurious as anything she looked at (once you add the leather, etc.), but was easier to drive, had better ergonomics (except the Lexus), and made her feel excited about driving a car (something none of the other cars could). I don't think the Cayman will ever be considered as competition for any of these other cars.

[bnewport]

Have you driven the 997? Its a true supercar with the smoothness of a VW golf and the efficiency of a race car! They did it right!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, but I drive a 996C4 every day and it's no slouch either. My main issues here are that the 997 is under powered compared with the competition and Porsche are making the boxsters/caymans too fast underneath. This will result in an erroding of the 911 value IMHO. Plus, the boxter/caymans will kill resale on 996s (a subject close to my heart <_< ).

[djantlive]

Didn't R&T declare the 997S to be the best sports car under $100k?

HP isn't everything. If that were the case, I'd buy a viper or even a C6.

Cayman or Boxter will/is a good performance sports car. But it's not a 911.

[Wedge]

I cannot comment on the 997 in particular because I have only SEEN it, but I am disappointed in the direction that Porsche is taking in general. The shift towards luxury over sport is disappointing. I sure would like to see Dr. W take some of those DM profits and funnel them towards a werks racing team during my lifetime. Instead, it seems like Porsche is going the direction of economic growth to maintain its independence...yada, yada, yada...luxury GT's. I'd rather see Porsche going in the direction of the RS America!

[Scouser]

I can't comment on the 997 either except to say I didn't like it when it came out but have warmed more to its looks now.

Let's put things into prespective. Porsche used to be a "sports car" manufacturer and catered for an exclusive market. They were never cheap but they produced the best cars. Through their dedication to both car and customer they developed a beatiful phenominon called "the Porsche Spirit". The flagship car has been the 911 but the Boxster saved their bacon. Nowadays, Porsche is the most successful car maker out their and they have shifted the goalposts to compete with the rest of the world's car manufacturers. Porsche is no longer an "exlcusive only club". They make SUV's, medium powered sports cars like the Boxster and soon a 4 door sedan let alone a new as yet unplaced Cayman. IMHO, the days of Porsche as we used to know it are finished, and so too is the long establsihed love of the 911. Looking back at what has occured with Porsche in the last decade says it all: they don't race them anymore, the air-cooled engine finished, the Boxster (read future Cayman) will take off from where the 911 went out, The 4 door family car will be next and so on. The 997 is a stop gap......Ferrari wins the battle!

[Wedge]

I can't comment on the 997 either except to say I didn't like it when it came out but have warmed more to its looks now.

Let's put things into prespective. Porsche used to be a "sports car" manufacturer and catered for an exclusive market. They were never cheap but they produced the best cars. Through their dedication to both car and customer they developed a beatiful phenominon called "the Porsche Spirit". The flagship car has been the 911 but the Boxster saved their bacon. Nowadays, Porsche is the most successful car maker out their and they have shifted the goalposts to compete with the rest of the world's car manufacturers. Porsche is no longer an "exlcusive only club". They make SUV's, medium powered sports cars like the Boxster and soon a 4 door sedan let alone a new as yet unplaced Cayman. IMHO, the days of Porsche as we used to know it are finished, and so too is the long establsihed love of the 911.  Looking back at what has occured with Porsche in the last decade says it all: they don't race them anymore, the air-cooled engine finished, the Boxster (read future Cayman) will take off from where the 911 went out, The 4 door family car will be next and so on. The 997 is a stop gap......Ferrari wins the battle!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The brutal truth. Wow, that is hard to swallow.

[SFBayArea Jimmy]

The 'prespective' is that the auto market has changed and I am just glad they are still around..... and more importantly, Porsche is still making CarreraGTs, GT3s, B-Turbos,C4Ss,997Ss..... I mean what other 'car' would you rather drive? :cheers:

[Wedge]

The  'prespective' is that the auto market has changed and I am just glad they are still around.....  and more importantly, Porsche is still making CarreraGTs, GT3s, B-Turbos,C4Ss,997Ss..... I mean what other 'car' would you rather drive? :cheers:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A stripped down, raw, light 996/997 from the factory. I know that the GT3 is available, but how about a plain old 996/997 with 350 hp weighing 400-500 lbs less than standard without having to tear it apart in my garage a la RS America?

[SFBayArea Jimmy]

A stripped down, raw, light 996/997 from the factory.  I know that the GT3 is available, but how about a plain old 996/997 with 350 hp weighing 400-500 lbs less than standard without having to tear it apart in my garage a la RS America?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, the current GT3 is as close to the spirit of the 911 RS America as you can get and better in every respect... except $. May be the rumoured Cayman Club Sport? :P

[djantlive]

I doubt a RS version of 997 will sell well. It'll cost more, deliver less in features but perform better. To most, that's not a good trade off. If that's what ppl want, most P car owner would end up owning Elise instead of 987/997.

Most 911 sold these days have $10k+ options bc people want Nav, power seats, seat warmer, 19", cup holders, etc. Porsche make a killing on options.

I think what's amazing about 996 & 997 is that these cars deliver both performance and comfort. It's not easy to do both so well. It's easy to build a speed machine but not so with comfort.

To save 400-500lb, Porsche will use CF panels before selling a 911 that's almost 100k without AC and power window. It's marketing and what people expect from Porsche - no compromise.

[rattles]

As a 911 owner, I don't understand what Porsche is up to. The Boxster started around 210 bhp and now with the Cayman has 302 bhp. The 911 over the same time period went from 300bhp to 355bhp. So thats 50% boost versus 16%. The new Cayman looks a very fast car, too fast.

When Ferrari have gone from 385bhp to 489bhp, I don't see the 997 holding it's own. The new GT3 better make at least the 500 bhp plus if it's to stay with the 430 Stradale when it arrives. Looks like Ferrari finally put the electronics etc on their car also.

I don't understand the Cayman strategy. It sole purpose looks to undermine the resale for 996 owners given the Cayman is likely a faster and better handling car.

Anyone else got any opinions?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I took a 997S for a four hour test drive yesterday, amazing. Try to do the same and let us know if you still feel disappointed, I would be interested to hear your comments.

Sure the Cayman will reduce resale values on the 996 and will take some sales from the 997S but that's progress. The positive side to that is that Porsche will have to lift the bar even further for the 998.

On the road here a new 997S costs around A$240,000, thats about US$185,000. Now THAT"S disappointing.

[Costa]

Sure the Cayman will reduce resale values on the 996 and will take some sales from the 997S but that's progress. The positive side to that is that Porsche will have to lift the bar even further for the 998.

On the road here a new 997S costs around A$240,000, thats about US$185,000. Now THAT"S disappointing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure if the Caymen will affect resale value too much/if at all....as the car does not seem to look like a 911 rather it tends to be more akin to a Boxster - especially the rear end (from the spy shots that I have seen).

The silly thing about all this, is that basically the Caymen will be a hardtop Boxster which will cost more than its counterpart Boxster convertible. That's like having a 997 convertible priced cheaper than say a 997S.

The most dissapointing thing that Porsche have done with the new 997 is to introduce the base model 997 - The base model should have been the 997S to differentiate it better from a 996.

As a 996 owner there is no incentive to even think of upgrading to a 997 unless it is the S model. If you are an owner of the X51 package then even the 997S is not an incentive.

Roll on the 998 +

[djantlive]

That is why I bought a 996 last year - 997 base isn't that much different than 996