Metal flakes in filter

[Hilux2400]

2003 996 C2 Engine Number M96/03 AT 663 66759

The engine in my 996 was replaced some time in about late 2005.

I have just changed the oil and inspected the filter. I attach a picture of two metal particles from the filter which can be attracted by a magnet. The "mm" scale next to the pieces shows their size. They are wafer thin and bright in colour. There was a small amount of metalised slime on the magnetic sump plug which I would have thought is fairly normal and something I have seen with other engines.

This replacement engine in the car has done about 20 to 30K, but I cannot be sure of the exact mileage. The engine has done 4,800 miles since its last oil change. At the last oil change there was one metal particle in the filter measuring about 0.25" across.

Would anyone care to comment and I look forward to your replies?

H

[txhokie4life]

Send the oil off for analysis that should help tell you what flakes are in your oil that you might not even be able to see.

Check to see if the particulates above are ferrous.

Mike

[JFP in PA]

2003 996 C2 Engine Number M96/03 AT 663 66759

The engine in my 996 was replaced some time in about late 2005.

I have just changed the oil and inspected the filter. I attach a picture of two metal particles from the filter which can be attracted by a magnet. The "mm" scale next to the pieces shows their size. They are wafer thin and bright in colour. There was a small amount of metalised slime on the magnetic sump plug which I would have thought is fairly normal and something I have seen with other engines.

This replacement engine in the car has done about 20 to 30K, but I cannot be sure of the exact mileage. The engine has done 4,800 miles since its last oil change. At the last oil change there was one metal particle in the filter measuring about 0.25" across.

Would anyone care to comment and I look forward to your replies?

H

Ferrous debris is never good in these engines, particularly as flakes. As you have a late 2005 "AT" replacement engine, it will carry the non serviceable IMS bearing, so a retrofit is out of the question.

First thing to do is shorten the oil change intervals to 3K miles, and switch to a known high ZDDP content oil like Joe Gibbs Racing 5W-40. If the car was in my shop, I would recommend switching to a full flow spin on filter setup (LN Engineering) which would guarantee all the oil is filtered all the time. The OEM cartridge filter canister has a by-pass valve in its base that tend to stick open when there is debris inside the engine, allowing unfiltered oil to circulate freely. We have seen these valves stuck in the open position even on engines with no problems. I would also add a filter mag magnetic panel to the outside of the spin on filter to aid in trapping ferrous debris. The use of a spin on filter will necessitate obtaining a filter cutting tool to open up the spin on's for inspection, but the benefit of full flow filtration far out ways this consideration.

[san rensho]

Doesn't look really bad, you essentially have 2 pieces of ferrous metal, although they are fairly large; M96 motors shed metal throughout their lives. I woulf just do another oil change in about 1-2k miles and drop the sump at the same time to see if there is any significant amount of metal.

Check the cam deviation with an appropriate scanner. if you get variation at idle, thats a sign the IMSB is going.

If you then find a lot of metal, its an indication its the IMSB, but there are other failure modes.

[Hilux2400]

Thank you for your helpful replies. I will probably reduce oil changes to 2K and keep a close watch. Keep you posted.

H

[Hilux2400]

Is the later and larger IMS bearing, from about late 2005 onwards, also a self contained grease filled unit, or is it pressure/splash fed from the sump?

[JFP in PA]

Is the later and larger IMS bearing, from about late 2005 onwards, also a self contained grease filled unit, or is it pressure/splash fed from the sump?

Exactly the same as the earlier bearings, only larger in outside diameter. You can, however, remove the rear bearing seal so that it does splash lubricate. We have several customers running this way.

[Hilux2400]

Thank you.

Is it possible to get at this rear seal on the IMS bearing by sump removal and then reaching in and digging it out?

[JFP in PA]

Thank you.

Is it possible to get at this rear seal on the IMS bearing by sump removal and then reaching in and digging it out?

No, you cannot even see the bearing from the sump. To remove it, the trans, clutch, and flywheel have to come off, the engine locked at TDC, cams locked, and the IMS rear flange removed, exactly as though you were going to swap it out.

[Hilux2400]

OK Thank you.