Brakes seizing on after washing car

[grahamg]

Anyone come across this problem. I have noticed that after washing my 997 C2S, even with handbrake off, the brakes stick on hard. They release after engaging gear but reluctantly and with a disconcerting 'bang' when they free off. I can understand this issue when the handbrake is applied and the discs partially corrode and 'stick; to the pads. But with the handbrake 'off'?? Any help appreciated.

[JFP in PA]

Anyone come across this problem. I have noticed that after washing my 997 C2S, even with handbrake off, the brakes stick on hard. They release after engaging gear but reluctantly and with a disconcerting 'bang' when they free off. I can understand this issue when the handbrake is applied and the discs partially corrode and 'stick; to the pads. But with the handbrake 'off'?? Any help appreciated.

It is just a light bit of rust forming on the rotors and causing the brakes to stick, not uncommon.

[jl-c]

Mine do it every time unless it is really hot and sunny (not that it is very frequently in the UK!)

I just assumed it was because the pads are held very close to the discs with typical Porsche efficiency :rolleyes:

[Mijostyn]

Yup, perfectly normal. Up here it even happens driving in the snow. We have so much salt on the roads. Get up the next morning, start him up, varoom, put him in reverse and BANG, we are off to the races. Just more Porsche music. More disconcerting is the very poor braking performance when these discs are ice cold. I live up on a hill and I have to drag the brakes 1/4 mile down to heat them up just so I can stop at the bottom. JFP is it possible that using a different kind of brake pad would fix this??

The secret to a successful life is learning to have fun in spite of it. MJS

[JFP in PA]

JFP is it possible that using a different kind of brake pad would fix this??

You referring to the brakes sticking after getting wet, or the cold brakes in the morning problem?

[Mijostyn]

No, not the sticking. When these brakes are very cold, probably below 20 F, they have no friction. You step on the brake and almost nothing happens. Then as the friction heats up the disc they start to grab. The first time it happened I almost freaked out. There is a "T" intersection at the bottom of my hill with a major road and I almost slid right into it. It took a few minutes for my heart to slow down.

JFP is it possible that using a different kind of brake pad would fix this??

You referring to the brakes sticking after getting wet, or the cold brakes in the morning problem?

[Hilux2400]

I have noticed with other vehicles varying degrees of braking efficiency with different makes of brake pad. Some years back I put some new after market pads on a car and the brakes were dreadful afterwards. I thought at first it was just the bedding in process, but they never improved. I changed them soon after. Could this be your problem? Is the quality of the pads a bit suspect?

I too get the brake "bang" in the morning after the car has been idle for a day or more in conditions of high humidity.

[Mijostyn]

I have noticed with other vehicles varying degrees of braking efficiency with different makes of brake pad. Some years back I put some new after market pads on a car and the brakes were dreadful afterwards. I thought at first it was just the bedding in process, but they never improved. I changed them soon after. Could this be your problem? Is the quality of the pads a bit suspect?

I too get the brake "bang" in the morning after the car has been idle for a day or more in conditions of high humidity.

I am running the stock Porsche pads that come with the car which I believe are metallic/organic pads as apposed the ceramic pads like the Hawks. I have not tried anything else yet but am seriously thinking about it. I did not notice this near as much last year I think because it was a warm winter but this year it has been very cold and thus much more of a problem, dangerously so. And the other thing that gets my gourd is when I try to drag the brakes to heat them up the ****ing computer cuts the gas! (beat you on that one Loren!) It is almost like Porsche wants you to crash!!

[JFP in PA]

No, not the sticking. When these brakes are very cold, probably below 20 F, they have no friction. You step on the brake and almost nothing happens. Then as the friction heats up the disc they start to grab. The first time it happened I almost freaked out. There is a "T" intersection at the bottom of my hill with a major road and I almost slid right into it. It took a few minutes for my heart to slow down.

JFP is it possible that using a different kind of brake pad would fix this??

You referring to the brakes sticking after getting wet, or the cold brakes in the morning problem?

You need to switch to a more aggressive "biting" pad compound like some of the ceramics, but you also need to expect shorter rotor life as the result of the higher biting pads. Brake pads are always some sort of compromise, you are always trading off one thing for another (noise, dust, bite, etc.). You might also want to drop a note to the tech section at some of the pad manufacturer's, they may have some specific history concerning cold bite levels on their product lines that would be of help to your specific situation.

We have switched some customers over to more aggressive Carbotech, Akebono, Hawk or Pagid pads to help in the cold, and while the brakes responded, noise and wear levels increased. Most prefer to just live with the OEM pads and warm them up a bit. And just be glad you don't have the $7K ceramic brakes option, they tend to really suck in very cold start ups.

[Mijostyn]

No, not the sticking. When these brakes are very cold, probably below 20 F, they have no friction. You step on the brake and almost nothing happens. Then as the friction heats up the disc they start to grab. The first time it happened I almost freaked out. There is a "T" intersection at the bottom of my hill with a major road and I almost slid right into it. It took a few minutes for my heart to slow down.

JFP is it possible that using a different kind of brake pad would fix this??

You referring to the brakes sticking after getting wet, or the cold brakes in the morning problem?

You need to switch to a more aggressive "biting" pad compound like some of the ceramics, but you also need to expect shorter rotor life as the result of the higher biting pads. Brake pads are always some sort of compromise, you are always trading off one thing for another (noise, dust, bite, etc.). You might also want to drop a note to the tech section at some of the pad manufacturer's, they may have some specific history concerning cold bite levels on their product lines that would be of help to your specific situation.

We have switched some customers over to more aggressive Carbotech, Akebono, Hawk or Pagid pads to help in the cold, and while the brakes responded, noise and wear levels increased. Most prefer to just live with the OEM pads and warm them up a bit. And just be glad you don't have the $7K ceramic brakes option, they tend to really suck in very cold start ups.

Great. I wound up with a Turbo S which of course comes with ceramic brakes. I won't be driving it in the winter for at least 3 years. JFP, any other problems with these brakes?? Are they better at anything?

I think I am going to try the Akebono pads in the C4S. Rotors are simple enough to replace. Me, not so much.

[JFP in PA]

No, not the sticking. When these brakes are very cold, probably below 20 F, they have no friction. You step on the brake and almost nothing happens. Then as the friction heats up the disc they start to grab. The first time it happened I almost freaked out. There is a "T" intersection at the bottom of my hill with a major road and I almost slid right into it. It took a few minutes for my heart to slow down.

JFP is it possible that using a different kind of brake pad would fix this??

You referring to the brakes sticking after getting wet, or the cold brakes in the morning problem?

You need to switch to a more aggressive "biting" pad compound like some of the ceramics, but you also need to expect shorter rotor life as the result of the higher biting pads. Brake pads are always some sort of compromise, you are always trading off one thing for another (noise, dust, bite, etc.). You might also want to drop a note to the tech section at some of the pad manufacturer's, they may have some specific history concerning cold bite levels on their product lines that would be of help to your specific situation.

We have switched some customers over to more aggressive Carbotech, Akebono, Hawk or Pagid pads to help in the cold, and while the brakes responded, noise and wear levels increased. Most prefer to just live with the OEM pads and warm them up a bit. And just be glad you don't have the $7K ceramic brakes option, they tend to really suck in very cold start ups.

Great. I wound up with a Turbo S which of course comes with ceramic brakes. I won't be driving it in the winter for at least 3 years. JFP, any other problems with these brakes?? Are they better at anything?

I think I am going to try the Akebono pads in the C4S. Rotors are simple enough to replace. Me, not so much.

The OEM PCCB brakes have tremendous ability to deal with severe heat fade in track like condition's and still get the job done, much more so than the best steel rotors, and do so repeatedly without burning themselves up. They are also a lighter assembly of un-sprung weight. This is why they are technology of choice in applications like F1, and are mandated in other racing sanctions like NHRA top fuel and funny cars. But like everything else, one advantage typically comes at the sacrifice of another, they are hyper expensive and suck in very cold conditions until they warm up. But like sticky summer high performance tires, they do not really belong on 5F roads. So like summer and winter tires, you have to think about "rotating" the brakes as well.

We have customers that have the PCCB brakes on Porsche Turbo's, GT's, and other makes like Ferrari; but these are not daily drivers, they sit under dust covers in heated garage's when it's 12F out and snowing like Hell as it currently is here. One customer has them on both his 458 Ferrari's, but he drives a Hyundai in the winter months.

[Mijostyn]

No, not the sticking. When these brakes are very cold, probably below 20 F, they have no friction. You step on the brake and almost nothing happens. Then as the friction heats up the disc they start to grab. The first time it happened I almost freaked out. There is a "T" intersection at the bottom of my hill with a major road and I almost slid right into it. It took a few minutes for my heart to slow down.

JFP is it possible that using a different kind of brake pad would fix this??

You referring to the brakes sticking after getting wet, or the cold brakes in the morning problem?

You need to switch to a more aggressive "biting" pad compound like some of the ceramics, but you also need to expect shorter rotor life as the result of the higher biting pads. Brake pads are always some sort of compromise, you are always trading off one thing for another (noise, dust, bite, etc.). You might also want to drop a note to the tech section at some of the pad manufacturer's, they may have some specific history concerning cold bite levels on their product lines that would be of help to your specific situation.

We have switched some customers over to more aggressive Carbotech, Akebono, Hawk or Pagid pads to help in the cold, and while the brakes responded, noise and wear levels increased. Most prefer to just live with the OEM pads and warm them up a bit. And just be glad you don't have the $7K ceramic brakes option, they tend to really suck in very cold start ups.

Great. I wound up with a Turbo S which of course comes with ceramic brakes. I won't be driving it in the winter for at least 3 years. JFP, any other problems with these brakes?? Are they better at anything?

I think I am going to try the Akebono pads in the C4S. Rotors are simple enough to replace. Me, not so much.

The OEM PCCB brakes have tremendous ability to deal with severe heat fade in track like condition's and still get the job done, much more so than the best steel rotors, and do so repeatedly without burning themselves up. They are also a lighter assembly of un-sprung weight. This is why they are technology of choice in applications like F1, and are mandated in other racing sanctions like NHRA top fuel and funny cars. But like everything else, one advantage typically comes at the sacrifice of another, they are hyper expensive and suck in very cold conditions until they warm up. But like sticky summer high performance tires, they do not really belong on 5F roads. So like summer and winter tires, you have to think about "rotating" the brakes as well.

We have customers that have the PCCB brakes on Porsche Turbo's, GT's, and other makes like Ferrari; but these are not daily drivers, they sit under dust covers in heated garage's when it's 12F out and snowing like Hell as it currently is here. One customer has them on both his 458 Ferrari's, but he drives a Hyundai in the winter months.

I think I like the part about the low unsprung weight the best. Do they make less dust or is that just sales person hype? The Turbo S will probably never see winter roads. I'll probably always have a C4S for that. The Hyundai is just not my speed but the Wife does have a shiny new Audi SQ5 which might just take over the role in long winter trips.....maybe.

[JFP in PA]

No, not the sticking. When these brakes are very cold, probably below 20 F, they have no friction. You step on the brake and almost nothing happens. Then as the friction heats up the disc they start to grab. The first time it happened I almost freaked out. There is a "T" intersection at the bottom of my hill with a major road and I almost slid right into it. It took a few minutes for my heart to slow down.

JFP is it possible that using a different kind of brake pad would fix this??

You referring to the brakes sticking after getting wet, or the cold brakes in the morning problem?

You need to switch to a more aggressive "biting" pad compound like some of the ceramics, but you also need to expect shorter rotor life as the result of the higher biting pads. Brake pads are always some sort of compromise, you are always trading off one thing for another (noise, dust, bite, etc.). You might also want to drop a note to the tech section at some of the pad manufacturer's, they may have some specific history concerning cold bite levels on their product lines that would be of help to your specific situation.

We have switched some customers over to more aggressive Carbotech, Akebono, Hawk or Pagid pads to help in the cold, and while the brakes responded, noise and wear levels increased. Most prefer to just live with the OEM pads and warm them up a bit. And just be glad you don't have the $7K ceramic brakes option, they tend to really suck in very cold start ups.

Great. I wound up with a Turbo S which of course comes with ceramic brakes. I won't be driving it in the winter for at least 3 years. JFP, any other problems with these brakes?? Are they better at anything?

I think I am going to try the Akebono pads in the C4S. Rotors are simple enough to replace. Me, not so much.

The OEM PCCB brakes have tremendous ability to deal with severe heat fade in track like condition's and still get the job done, much more so than the best steel rotors, and do so repeatedly without burning themselves up. They are also a lighter assembly of un-sprung weight. This is why they are technology of choice in applications like F1, and are mandated in other racing sanctions like NHRA top fuel and funny cars. But like everything else, one advantage typically comes at the sacrifice of another, they are hyper expensive and suck in very cold conditions until they warm up. But like sticky summer high performance tires, they do not really belong on 5F roads. So like summer and winter tires, you have to think about "rotating" the brakes as well.

We have customers that have the PCCB brakes on Porsche Turbo's, GT's, and other makes like Ferrari; but these are not daily drivers, they sit under dust covers in heated garage's when it's 12F out and snowing like Hell as it currently is here. One customer has them on both his 458 Ferrari's, but he drives a Hyundai in the winter months.

I think I like the part about the low unsprung weight the best. Do they make less dust or is that just sales person hype? The Turbo S will probably never see winter roads. I'll probably always have a C4S for that. The Hyundai is just not my speed but the Wife does have a shiny new Audi SQ5 which might just take over the role in long winter trips.....maybe.

They do produce almost no brake dust, and the PCCB rotors are less than half the weight of their iron counterparts. Also be aware that Porsche has updated the PCCB system, the first generation had some cracking issues and were particularly bad when cold until they warmed up, but the second generation appears to have solved the cracking issue and improved the cold performance somewhat, but with some complaints about noise levels in the cold as well. But even the new ones still like being warm. And as I said, brakes are always a trade off, but the first time you jump on the PCCB's as you approach a fast right hander at speed, the smile on your face will compensate for the rest of the nonsense.............

[JFP in PA]

And I for one am particularly interested in how well the new Turbo's hold up now that they no longer run the Metzger based engine, but instead use a modified 9A1 variant.................

[Mijostyn]

Well, they have forged rods and look very nice from the bottom if that means anything. It will be a while before we really know. My car will not get more than 2000 miles a year until it is paid off...just in case I have to sell it. Then ROCK AND ROLL. The 997.2 Turbo was a 9A1 variant yes? How are they doing? Is anyone racing this engine yet?

[grahamg]

Thanks to all of you for the feedback, it was useful!