2005 997 C2S IMS Failure Incident Recently

[eso1968]

This happened just few days ago with my 2005 997 C2S which has been well serviced with only 44,000km mileage. While I was driving in town at speed of about 34-40km/hr, after I turned at the corner, there was traffic in front, so I slowed down and just before the car stopped, all the lights on the dash came on and the car stalled, then I tried to start again which it did but immediately stalled again and from there it felt like the battery was flat as I could only hear click sound and starter motor was not turning. I then called the tow truck company (lucky nearby), from there the horrible thing that I saw from the back of the car really scared me, the road was full of engine oil from the back of the car.

The car was then towed back to my mechanic and over the last few days, they have taken out the engine and realized that the IMS bearing has been completely broken into pieces BUT quite luckily according to my mechanic I was driving slow, otherwise the engine could have been completely damage without much he can do. My concern is according to various forum posts, IMS bearing failure usually have signs such as engine oil dripping in carpark which it didn’t occur in my case. The car was running well without any unusual noise. Has this kind of things been happened to anyone before?

Now, my mechanic said as the rebuild cost will be very high, he suggest me to just replace the bearing, take off the oil sump to make sure no broken metal being left in the engine, I can avoid an expensive bill. Further to my case, I do suggest to have your IMS bearing check specially while you have your gearbox off the car.

Thank you

[JFP in PA]

This happened just few days ago with my 2005 997 C2S which has been well serviced with only 44,000km mileage. While I was driving in town at speed of about 34-40km/hr, after I turned at the corner, there was traffic in front, so I slowed down and just before the car stopped, all the lights on the dash came on and the car stalled, then I tried to start again which it did but immediately stalled again and from there it felt like the battery was flat as I could only hear click sound and starter motor was not turning. I then called the tow truck company (lucky nearby), from there the horrible thing that I saw from the back of the car really scared me, the road was full of engine oil from the back of the car.

The car was then towed back to my mechanic and over the last few days, they have taken out the engine and realized that the IMS bearing has been completely broken into pieces BUT quite luckily according to my mechanic I was driving slow, otherwise the engine could have been completely damage without much he can do. My concern is according to various forum posts, IMS bearing failure usually have signs such as engine oil dripping in carpark which it didn’t occur in my case. The car was running well without any unusual noise. Has this kind of things been happened to anyone before?

Now, my mechanic said as the rebuild cost will be very high, he suggest me to just replace the bearing, take off the oil sump to make sure no broken metal being left in the engine, I can avoid an expensive bill. Further to my case, I do suggest to have your IMS bearing check specially while you have your gearbox off the car.

Thank you

Just replacing the bearing is a bad idea in the extreme; the engine may already be full of metal grit from the bearing failure, which would promptly kill the LN bearing update. Pull the oil filter and drop the sump cover, if you find metal, the engine has to come apart for cleaing and a complete rebuild; there are no other viable options.

[Silver_TT]

Actually there have been a number of folks who were victims of IMS failure that had no warning signs. Just driving down the road, minding their own business, then CEL and dead car.

As JFP said, just be really careful of what your mechanic is recommending. In addition to checking the filter and sump, you can also inspect the bearings and make sure they look good and are not pitted. If they have been wearing, then the debris has gotten into the oil and you will need a new engine or a complete rebuild. Trying to flush the engine doesn't work.

[Don9512]

Check the IMS class action suit web-site. If your car is covered you could get some money for repairs.

http://www.imsporschesettlement.com/

[bobclive]

The email above shows the later IMS bearing in engines from mid 2005 to mid 2009 are still prone to failure.

This car was advertised in the UK August 2013, it was a Porsche Boxster S with 27,000 miles and a new engine. The problem with this engine is no one has any idea when the bearing will fail, the sad part is that one small bearing failing can total the engine.

No other manufacturer other than Porsche has placed a greased filled fully sealed bearing within the confines of a combustion engine, no one ever anywhere, there is obviousely a reason they don`t do it.

Being aware of this fact and knowing previouse upgrades were failing Porsche in their wisdom put the same type of bearing but larger into their engine now making it impossible to upgrade this bearing without a total engine ripdown if it shows signes of failure in the future, which it will.

In these later engines If you have a guardian and it indicates the bearing failing, you have to purchase a new IMS shaft and bearing from Porsche and strip the engine down to fit it, this will cost thousands.

The best engine in my view is the pre August 2005 with the smaller bearing and a guardian, this bearing can be replaced cheaply.

[Hilux2400]

Is there any way of knowing the type of bearing in these engines?

I have a late 2003 996 C2 that's done 51K miles. From the history I think the engine was replaced at about 25K.

The original engine number was: M96/03 663 20129

The current engine number is: M96/03 AT 665 66759

I have been unable to find out when the replacement engine was fitted. It was probably done when the car was under warranty, but what I don't know is what type of IMS bearing is in the car.

Does anyone know?

H

[JFP in PA]

Is there any way of knowing the type of bearing in these engines?

I have a late 2003 996 C2 that's done 51K miles. From the history I think the engine was replaced at about 25K.

The original engine number was: M96/03 663 20129

The current engine number is: M96/03 AT 665 66759

I have been unable to find out when the replacement engine was fitted. It was probably done when the car was under warranty, but what I don't know is what type of IMS bearing is in the car.

Does anyone know?

H

If the AT engine was fitted after early 2005, it carries the non serviceable bearing. Unfortunately, unless you can narrow that date down, there is no way to know without looking at the IMS center bolt.

[Mijostyn]

Is there any way of knowing the type of bearing in these engines?

I have a late 2003 996 C2 that's done 51K miles. From the history I think the engine was replaced at about 25K.

The original engine number was: M96/03 663 20129[/size

The current engine number is: M96/03 AT 665 66759

I have been unable to find out when the replacement engine was fitted. It was probably done when the car was under warranty, but what I don't know is what type of IMS bearing is in the car.

Does anyone know?

H

If the AT engine was fitted after early 2005, it carries the non serviceable bearing. Unfortunately, unless you can narrow that date down, there is no way to know without looking at the IMS center bolt.

JFP, what set up does the 991 engine use, particularly the Turbo if you happen to know??

Edited February 20, 2014 by Mijostyn

[JFP in PA]

Is there any way of knowing the type of bearing in these engines?

I have a late 2003 996 C2 that's done 51K miles. From the history I think the engine was replaced at about 25K.

The original engine number was: M96/03 663 20129[/size

The current engine number is: M96/03 AT 665 66759

I have been unable to find out when the replacement engine was fitted. It was probably done when the car was under warranty, but what I don't know is what type of IMS bearing is in the car.

Does anyone know?

H

If the AT engine was fitted after early 2005, it carries the non serviceable bearing. Unfortunately, unless you can narrow that date down, there is no way to know without looking at the IMS center bolt.

JFP, what set up does the 991 engine use, particularly the Turbo if you happen to know??

Sure; Porsche stopped production of the legendary, but dated, Metzger lump which has been the mainstay for Turbo, GT, and race car engines for a lot of years. The 991 Turbo uses a variant of the 9A1 direct injection engine that is common in all of the later model cars.

[Mijostyn]

Is there any way of knowing the type of bearing in these engines?

I have a late 2003 996 C2 that's done 51K miles. From the history I think the engine was replaced at about 25K.

The original engine number was: M96/03 663 20129[/size

The current engine number is: M96/03 AT 665 66759

I have been unable to find out when the replacement engine was fitted. It was probably done when the car was under warranty, but what I don't know is what type of IMS bearing is in the car.

Does anyone know?

H

If the AT engine was fitted after early 2005, it carries the non serviceable bearing. Unfortunately, unless you can narrow that date down, there is no way to know without looking at the IMS center bolt.

JFP, what set up does the 991 engine use, particularly the Turbo if you happen to know??

Sure; Porsche stopped production of the legendary, but dated, Metzger lump which has been the mainstay for Turbo, GT, and race car engines for a lot of years. The 991 Turbo uses a variant of the 9A1 direct injection engine that is common in all of the later model cars.

Does it have an intermediate shaft and if so type of bearing??

[JFP in PA]

Does it have an intermediate shaft and if so type of bearing??

No, there is no intermediate shaft in the 9A1.

[Mijostyn]

That certainly solves that problem.

[PorscheGTS]

Well it would seam that IMS Bearing has claimed another victum. Yesterday afternoon as I left for lunch a grinding noise started to came from the rear of the car and it stalled. I restarted the car and the noise continued and then stopped. The car then ran smooth (no noise) so I returned to the office maybe a 1/2 mile away. After parking the car I looked under the rear of the car to see a steady stream on oil leaking from what appears to area were the engine mounts to the transmision (right above the rear sway bar). My car is a "2005" Carrera 997 C2S " Launch Edition" 73K miles. I am the second owner, but by all indications the car has been well maintained. The car as since been transported to my mechanic for diagnosis. After reading several of the posts I am almost positive its the IMS Bearing. When I hear from my mechanic I will update the post to the when I hear back from my mechanic.

Any words of comfort would be apriciated. LOL

[JFP in PA]

Well it would seam that IMS Bearing has claimed another victum. Yesterday afternoon as I left for lunch a grinding noise started to came from the rear of the car and it stalled. I restarted the car and the noise continued and then stopped. The car then ran smooth (no noise) so I returned to the office maybe a 1/2 mile away. After parking the car I looked under the rear of the car to see a steady stream on oil leaking from what appears to area were the engine mounts to the transmision (right above the rear sway bar). My car is a "2005" Carrera 997 C2S " Launch Edition" 73K miles. I am the second owner, but by all indications the car has been well maintained. The car as since been transported to my mechanic for diagnosis. After reading several of the posts I am almost positive its the IMS Bearing. When I hear from my mechanic I will update the post to the when I hear back from my mechanic.

Any words of comfort would be apriciated. LOL

Never good to hear, but withhold judgment until the car is pulled apart and checked; it could still be something else.

[Hilux2400]

As I have said in other postings I have fitted a magnetic sump drain plug to my 996 and do frequent oil changes. It won't eliminate the problem, but it might give me an early warning of IMS failure. Loose ball bearings in an engine would be a killer.

H

[PorscheGTS]

Good morning to all my Boxster & Carrera freinds out there. I wanted to report back on the status of my "IMS Failure" post from last week and to relay on some new info. Today the car is being inspected by the Dealer to confirm the failure. At this point by all indications it is an IMS Failure and confirmation is just a formality. There is however, some good news that I have come accross that I wanted to share. In doing some research on the failure rates I came accross a Internet post that read "Porsche IMS Settlement for 996 & Boxster Reached: Lawyers Win". As I'm sure many of you may be aware, there has been a Class Action Lawsuit pending against Porsche Cars North America. I would appear that the suit has been settled Jan 30, 2014 and the Lawyers involved have issued a press release. There is a link that takes you to the Law Firms website to verify and start the process for anyone who qulifies based on Vin#. imsporschesettlement.com . The website explains the peramiters for qaulification and the % of reinbursment you may be intitled to.

My Vin# was confimed by Porsche as one that does qualiy for 25% of reinbursment. Unfortunately the dealer will probably recommend complete engine replacement, so I still have to come out of pocket for $15-18K. Oh well!

I hope this helps.

[racerken]

Well, I did receive 100% of my service fees late last year.  the lawsuit was in my favor but man, was I a very upset porsche owner.  Don't get me wrong, I still drive a 997 and love it.

 

At the time, the dealer made me pay for the services but not the remanufactured engine.  You might want to push for such a deal.

[BCanada]

My 05 early 997 C2 Cab with 90K KM/54K mi had an intermittent "chirping" noise so I took to my repair shop and initial thought was a belt / bearing issue. Engine light

didn't come on and haven't lost oil pressure, car was running fine. It turns out chirp coming from inside engine and IMS issue. Oil pan has some metal 

in it so now looking at having to replace/rebuild engine from a US rebuilder at $35-40K Canadian$ by the time Im done. The car is in excellent

condition always stored for winter, rarely seen rain and well maintained. Im 2nd owner for last 13 years orig purchased as a CPO from US Porsche dealer.  Unfortunately

I had never heard of IMS issue or I would've proactively had it replaced. My situation now is the car is worth approx $45K so debating worth fixing... 

Misery loves company so any thoughts or comments welcomed.  Thanks from Canada. 

[JFP in PA]

32 minutes ago, BCanada said:

My 05 early 997 C2 Cab with 90K KM/54K mi had an intermittent "chirping" noise so I took to my repair shop and initial thought was a belt / bearing issue. Engine light

didn't come on and haven't lost oil pressure, car was running fine. It turns out chirp coming from inside engine and IMS issue. Oil pan has some metal 

in it so now looking at having to replace/rebuild engine from a US rebuilder at $35-40K Canadian$ by the time Im done. The car is in excellent

condition always stored for winter, rarely seen rain and well maintained. Im 2nd owner for last 13 years orig purchased as a CPO from US Porsche dealer.  Unfortunately

I had never heard of IMS issue or I would've proactively had it replaced. My situation now is the car is worth approx $45K so debating worth fixing... 

Misery loves company so any thoughts or comments welcomed.  Thanks from Canada. 

 

First of all, welcome to RennTech 

The IMS failure issue is both well known and widely discussed on just about any Internet forum involving Porsches, so a quick Google search should fill in any blank spots on the subject for you; and there are commercially available retrofits for the IMS to address this exact issue.  Realistically, probably the best option for you is to source a used engine rather than rebuild the one you have.  As you have discovered, just a simple refresh of an engine with no damage is a wallet thinning activity.

 

Good luck.

[BCanada]

Thanks any guidance on where to find a used engine from a reliable source?

[JFP in PA]

Boneyard, from a wrecked car.  Do an online search, there are firms that specialize in Porsches.