Oil consumption

[ogun228]

My new (to me) 2009 C2S cab PDK with 21k miles has consumed one quart of oil in 2k miles. I noticed the rear bumper cover with a slightly oily black film which prompted me to check the oil level which was down about 3 bars. Added oil slowly and rechecked until a quart of Mobil 1 0/40 was poured in.

I plan on going to the dealer ( car is CPO) and to avoid the usual " It's normal" or " they all do that" BS ( they don't all do that as my previous 05 C4S didn't require any added oil between changes in 3 years).

I'd appreciate opinions as the possible causes so that I may be able to talk intelligently about the issue to the Service Mgr.

Thanks

[White987S]

That's normal. As was your 05 911. Porsche's spec is something like 1 litre in 1,000 kilometers.

Being 3 bars down is about 1 quart. Each bar is about 350 ml. Always better to be 1 bar "low" vs overfilled. If ever overfilled (not a good thing), just drop your oil filter to remove a couple hundred ml's.

The black film you are finding is more likely road dirt and brake dust. Not spent oil. But the DFI engine (in your 2009) will burn a little dirtier than your 2005 did.

Edited December 27, 2013 by White987S

[ogun228]

Thanks, White. I can rest easy.

[Mijostyn]

White is absolutely correct. Porsches spec was one liter to 1000 km. this was considered normal as of 2002. My 2001 TT consumed one quart in 1200 miles. Which I complained about and thought I was getting BS. The dealer wisely gave me the telephone number of another TT owner whose car did exactly the same thing. I was told it would improve about a liter per 1000 km as the car broke in and it did. It still burned a lot more oil than any car I had ever owned. I was also told that oil consumption was highly variable. Anyway, I always carried an extra quart of oil in the boot.

[Mijostyn]

See below. I screwed it up.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Mijostyn

[Mijostyn]

That's normal. As was your 05 911. Porsche's spec is something like 1 litre in 1,000 kilometers.

Being 3 bars down is about 1 quart. Each bar is about 350 ml. Always better to be 1 bar "low" vs overfilled. If ever overfilled (not a good thing), just drop your oil filter to remove a couple hundred ml's.

The black film you are finding is more likely road dirt and brake dust. Not spent oil. But the DFI engine (in your 2009) will burn a little dirtier than your 2005 did.

White, what is the danger if you overfill the car slightly??

[White987S]

That's normal. As was your 05 911. Porsche's spec is something like 1 litre in 1,000 kilometers.

Being 3 bars down is about 1 quart. Each bar is about 350 ml. Always better to be 1 bar "low" vs overfilled. If ever overfilled (not a good thing), just drop your oil filter to remove a couple hundred ml's.

The black film you are finding is more likely road dirt and brake dust. Not spent oil. But the DFI engine (in your 2009) will burn a little dirtier than your 2005 did.

White, what is the danger if you overfill the car slightly??

Define slightly? Over is over. Over is bad. Main issue is oil foaming and aeration. Becauce it gets beat & whipped.

[Mijostyn]

That's normal. As was your 05 911. Porsche's spec is something like 1 litre in 1,000 kilometers.

Being 3 bars down is about 1 quart. Each bar is about 350 ml. Always better to be 1 bar "low" vs overfilled. If ever overfilled (not a good thing), just drop your oil filter to remove a couple hundred ml's.

The black film you are finding is more likely road dirt and brake dust. Not spent oil. But the DFI engine (in your 2009) will burn a little dirtier than your 2005 did.

White, what is the danger if you overfill the car slightly??

Define slightly? Over is over. Over is bad. Main issue is oil foaming and aeration. Becauce it gets beat & whipped.

I guess we have to define it in terms of our electronic gauges. If you over fill the car slightly with just 4 oz oil you can light up the top bar. If you go a little further the car warns you that you have over filled. My Porsche tech says as long as the car isn't complaining not to worry about it. My question never seems to get answered which is what harm comes to the engine if it is overfilled a few ounces. The level will drop to normal in a few hundred miles. Must you bother to drop the oil filter or can you just let the engine burn it off?

Oil always gets beat and whipped. That's what it does for a living. Aerated oil stays at the top of the sump. The engine pulls oil from the bottom.

What harm comes to the engine if is slightly overfilled???

[Mijostyn]

I ran a search on line and White is correct. The mantra is if the oils gets as high as the crank, the crank will beat it into foam (aerate). If the foam gets into the oil pump the pump stops working, your oil pressure drops and you freeze your engine. I do believe but do not know for a fact, that our cars would start flashing all sorts of dooms day warning messages on the dash. Also, some cars are going to be more suseptible to aerated oil than others by virtue of oil pan design, and pick up location.

The significance to me is that I always "over fill" the car. When I add or change oil I first get the engine up to temp then I get the level up to normal following which I add oil 2 oz at a time until I just get the upper bar to light up. I just did this and drove a total of 386 miles back and forth to Maine w/o incident. With these stupid digital oil gauges this is the only easy way to get an accurate handle on your oil consumption. You could of course, do the same thing one bar lower. My brain however, will not tolerated the thought of running around with a lower than absolutely full engine. How neurotic can you get?

Edited January 4, 2014 by Mijostyn

[ogun228]

Follow up: Down 1 bar at 24k miles, added less than 1/2 qt. So this time it's 3k miles to "down one bar" and the amount added is less. The car is a DD and often driven vigorously. I wonder what is happening. I'm planning on having an oil and filter change at 25k without resetting the service interval so that I'll get a service notice at 30K.

[Hilux2400]

These cars take about 8 litres of oil. With my 996 I never fill it. It has a sump and filter capacity of 8.3 litres and when I change the oil and filter I put in just 8 litres. The oil level is one bar down and I am happy. I also check the dipstick (not on 997) and when it says halfway I am also happy.

However, the electronic reader produces variable results. Sometimes it says full and sometimes it says one bar down. When mine says 2/3 bars down I put in some oil. However, It hardly uses any oil between changes.

Don't worry so much, but if I had just an electronic reader I might also worry.

H

[White987S]

Follow up: Down 1 bar at 24k miles, added less than 1/2 qt. So this time it's 3k miles to "down one bar" and the amount added is less. The car is a DD and often driven vigorously. I wonder what is happening. I'm planning on having an oil and filter change at 25k without resetting the service interval so that I'll get a service notice at 30K.

Nothing is "happening". Normal. Your car consumed about 300ml of oil in 3,000. Very-very normal, and low.

[ogun228]

Follow up: Down 1 bar at 24k miles, added less than 1/2 qt. So this time it's 3k miles to "down one bar" and the amount added is less. The car is a DD and often driven vigorously. I wonder what is happening. I'm planning on having an oil and filter change at 25k without resetting the service interval so that I'll get a service notice at 30K.

Nothing is "happening". Normal. Your car consumed about 300ml of oil in 3,000. Very-very normal, and low.

Thank you.

[Nutbutt]

I know this is an old thread but I just had a 2009 997.2 cab delivered and after about 80 miles the check oil message comes on and when I check the oil it is overfilled. Has anyone removed the filter to remove oil or is there another way besides the obvious drain plug ? I can't believe these guys overfilled it.

[JFP in PA]

I know this is an old thread but I just had a 2009 997.2 cab delivered and after about 80 miles the check oil message comes on and when I check the oil it is overfilled. Has anyone removed the filter to remove oil or is there another way besides the obvious drain plug ? I can't believe these guys overfilled it.

 

Welcome to RennTech :welcome:

 

Common problem, and the solution depends upon how over filled it is.. You can drain about 1/2 L out by dumping the filter, but if the car has way too much in it, you would be better dumping everything and properly refilling it with a new filter.  Should hold around 9 quarts fully drained with a new filter.

[Nutbutt]

Thanks, since the car supposedly had an oil change before it was delivered and I know this dealer has a Porsche dealership I am hoping it's not much over. If they were close I would bring it back but they are about 125 miles away. I guess I'll be removing the oil filter and see if that works. I hope it won't be too messy.

[JFP in PA]

Thanks, since the car supposedly had an oil change before it was delivered and I know this dealer has a Porsche dealership I am hoping it's not much over. If they were close I would bring it back but they are about 125 miles away. I guess I'll be removing the oil filter and see if that works. I hope it won't be too messy.

 

Your oil level display should never say it is over filled, slightly under filled is better.

[Nutbutt]

Boogles my mind how the dealer just told me it is ok and will burn off in time. :( I'm going to warm up the engine then remove the oil filter to see if it drops out of the overfill block.

[JFP in PA]

Boogles my mind how the dealer just told me it is ok and will burn off in time. :( I'm going to warm up the engine then remove the oil filter to see if it drops out of the overfill block.

 

What he forgot to tell you is that an overfilled sump can result in liquid oil being sucked into a running engine, hydro locking it and destroying the engine.  Bad idea.

[White987S]

I know this is an old thread but I just had a 2009 997.2 cab delivered and after about 80 miles the check oil message comes on and when I check the oil it is overfilled. Has anyone removed the filter to remove oil or is there another way besides the obvious drain plug ? I can't believe these guys overfilled it.

The other major issue with oil overfilling, is foaming and aeration of the oil. With the 8-9 quart capacities of our different 911s, there is also thermal expansion of approx 1/2 quart. That's probably why your warning didn't trip until the oil was up to full operating temp. You should just do maybe 2 cycles of the oil filter dump. I'd bet your level will be fine after that.

[JFP in PA]

I have a larger problem with this.  If whomever did the oil change did not know how much to put in the engine, they probably also did not know what type of oil was correct either.

 

I'd drain it and start over.

[Nutbutt]

Yes I quickly came to the same conclusion and ended up doing a full oil change this past weekend. This had to be the easiest oil change of any car I have ever owned even my 85 911.

I did look in the service record a day later and it has a record of an oil change less than 100 miles ago. Recorded by a Porsche dealer ! Looks like they were not paying attention. Glad they are no where near me and I'll be doing my own anyway.

Better safe than sorry !

I have a larger problem with this. If whomever did the oil change did not know how much to put in the engine, they probably also did not know what type of oil was correct either.

I'd drain it and start over.

[Nutbutt]

So the plot thickens ! I got a call from the dealership asking how my car was. I told them of the oil overfill issue I had and that I ended up changing the oil. I told them I was not very happy with their dealership service dept. that cost me an oil change. From what he told me was that I shouldn't had to change the oil. The oil indicator gauge would have been flashing if it was truly over filled and that the top block on the gauge lit will not harm the engine.

So has anyone with a 2009 997.2 agree with this ?? Or is this an inexperienced person telling me this ? They are supposedly sending me a free oil change a for my local dealer.

[Pete03S]

For me switching to 5W40 really helped my consumption issues, but Im in Southern California near the ocean and it never gets below 40F, maybe not the best oil for cold climates?