chain tensioner removal or loosening (for IMS)

[zodman]

Hi all and happy festivus,

I can't find any literature on the LN special tools if the width differences on the 5 chain and 3 chain camshaft locks means that you needn't bother putting the 3 chain lock on Cyls 1-3 (or on a 5-chain motor) if you've already got the 5 chain lock on Cyls 4-6...just for the extra piece of mind that locking both sides would offer. I see the 3-chain lock is slightly thicker, and doesn't seem to fit in. And as for rotating the engine at TDC, is it TDC for cyl 4-6 or TDC for 1-3?

Also, since I've got the 5-chain version with the double row bearing, do all the chain tensioners need to be loosened/removed? LN documents just the IMS and cyl 4-6(closest to flywheel) removal. I seem to recall that with the 5 chains, two of the tensioners could be loosened to their last thread and don't have to be removed, the one in the back, behind the drivers seat can be left alone. I remember that some of the initial warnings when these bearings came into place was to 'not' remove the chain tensioners at all, otherwise bad things would happen to the timing...Am I dreaming, or did the rules change? With all the debates back and forth on all the boards, it leaves me wondering...on top of that, using the din screws as suggested by Wayne Dempsy leaves me wondering why would you rotate the engine after locking down the camshafts and achieving TDC?(I know it is to hold the shaft in place....but the way it is spoken about leaves open to "when" (or if) it should be done.

Is the Green stuff on bolts like the ones that mate the engine and tranny together an anti-corrosive? I don't know if it's my dexlexia but I thought it was a different color. There was Blue matter on the flywheel bolts, any thoughts what the two different substances are?

Side note:

Cyl 4 spark plug was very slightly oil wet other spark plugs were dry. Cyl 4 (right behind the driver seat) is near where I had the leak over from the 'positive crankcase ventilation valve'. There was also some grimy buildup in the intake manifold on the side of the resonance tube, so I'm thinking that's the cause. Looking down into the bores from where the Intake Manifold would be shows all three to be in decent shape in a cursory visual inspection compared to other pics I've seen in the internet wilds. But I should get a compression tester, any suggestions on getting an inexpensive checker for that?

Other side note: Yeah it's taking me longer than I thought to finish. I blame caution, lots of reading and old bones.

2001 Boxster S 6-speed Manual

[JFP in PA]

Hi all and happy festivus,

I can't find any literature on the LN special tools if the width differences on the 5 chain and 3 chain camshaft locks means that you needn't bother putting the 3 chain lock on Cyls 1-3 (or on a 5-chain motor) if you've already got the 5 chain lock on Cyls 4-6...just for the extra piece of mind that locking both sides would offer. I see the 3-chain lock is slightly thicker, and doesn't seem to fit in. And as for rotating the engine at TDC, is it TDC for cyl 4-6 or TDC for 1-3?

Also, since I've got the 5-chain version with the double row bearing, do all the chain tensioners need to be loosened/removed? LN documents just the IMS and cyl 4-6(closest to flywheel) removal. I seem to recall that with the 5 chains, two of the tensioners could be loosened to their last thread and don't have to be removed, the one in the back, behind the drivers seat can be left alone. I remember that some of the initial warnings when these bearings came into place was to 'not' remove the chain tensioners at all, otherwise bad things would happen to the timing...Am I dreaming, or did the rules change? With all the debates back and forth on all the boards, it leaves me wondering...on top of that, using the din screws as suggested by Wayne Dempsy leaves me wondering why would you rotate the engine after locking down the camshafts and achieving TDC?(I know it is to hold the shaft in place....but the way it is spoken about leaves open to "when" (or if) it should be done.

Is the Green stuff on bolts like the ones that mate the engine and tranny together an anti-corrosive? I don't know if it's my dexlexia but I thought it was a different color. There was Blue matter on the flywheel bolts, any thoughts what the two different substances are?

Side note:

Cyl 4 spark plug was very slightly oil wet other spark plugs were dry. Cyl 4 (right behind the driver seat) is near where I had the leak over from the 'positive crankcase ventilation valve'. There was also some grimy buildup in the intake manifold on the side of the resonance tube, so I'm thinking that's the cause. Looking down into the bores from where the Intake Manifold would be shows all three to be in decent shape in a cursory visual inspection compared to other pics I've seen in the internet wilds. But I should get a compression tester, any suggestions on getting an inexpensive checker for that?

Other side note: Yeah it's taking me longer than I thought to finish. I blame caution, lots of reading and old bones.

2001 Boxster S 6-speed Manual

As someone that does this for a living, let me give you some basics:

1. Forget about anyone's instructions except for LN Engineering. While some people have gotten away using the so-called set screw method, others have had major league problems. Because the gear you are pushing on with the set screws is a press fit to the IMS shaft, you can actually move the gear on the shaft, which then requires taking the engine apart to fix. Bad idea. Get a copy of the LN instructions and follow them to the letter, they are the only ones known to not create problems; and don't cheap out on getting the necessary tooling.
2. TDC is only for the #1 cylinder, there is no other engine position will minimize valve spring loading, which is what will try to rotate the engine during this process. Once the engine is rotated to TDC (turning clockwise only), it should not be moved and the locking pin should not be removed until everything is reassembled.
3. The "green stuff" on the bolts is a micro encapsulation Porsche uses to help hold the bolts tight. The blue on the flywheel bolts is thread locker. And while on the subject, you should not even consider reusing any of the pressure plate or flywheel bolts, they are single use fasteners.
4. The three chain tensioners can be removed. It is always a good idea to clean them and at least check them for signs of wear as it is a pain in the butt to go back in to replace a weak one. Be sure to note which tensioner came from where, they are not all the same.
5. A blown AOS will leave a lot of oil in the intake system, and take forever to burn off unless you take the system apart and manually clean everything out.
6. Buy a leak down tester rather than a compression gauge, leak down tests tell you a lot more than a simple compression test.

[zodman]

Hi all and happy festivus,

I can't find any literature on the LN special tools if the width differences on the 5 chain and 3 chain camshaft locks means that you needn't bother putting the 3 chain lock on Cyls 1-3 (or on a 5-chain motor) if you've already got the 5 chain lock on Cyls 4-6...just for the extra piece of mind that locking both sides would offer. I see the 3-chain lock is slightly thicker, and doesn't seem to fit in. And as for rotating the engine at TDC, is it TDC for cyl 4-6 or TDC for 1-3?

Also, since I've got the 5-chain version with the double row bearing, do all the chain tensioners need to be loosened/removed? LN documents just the IMS and cyl 4-6(closest to flywheel) removal. I seem to recall that with the 5 chains, two of the tensioners could be loosened to their last thread and don't have to be removed, the one in the back, behind the drivers seat can be left alone. I remember that some of the initial warnings when these bearings came into place was to 'not' remove the chain tensioners at all, otherwise bad things would happen to the timing...Am I dreaming, or did the rules change? With all the debates back and forth on all the boards, it leaves me wondering...on top of that, using the din screws as suggested by Wayne Dempsy leaves me wondering why would you rotate the engine after locking down the camshafts and achieving TDC?(I know it is to hold the shaft in place....but the way it is spoken about leaves open to "when" (or if) it should be done.

Is the Green stuff on bolts like the ones that mate the engine and tranny together an anti-corrosive? I don't know if it's my dexlexia but I thought it was a different color. There was Blue matter on the flywheel bolts, any thoughts what the two different substances are?

Side note:

Cyl 4 spark plug was very slightly oil wet other spark plugs were dry. Cyl 4 (right behind the driver seat) is near where I had the leak over from the 'positive crankcase ventilation valve'. There was also some grimy buildup in the intake manifold on the side of the resonance tube, so I'm thinking that's the cause. Looking down into the bores from where the Intake Manifold would be shows all three to be in decent shape in a cursory visual inspection compared to other pics I've seen in the internet wilds. But I should get a compression tester, any suggestions on getting an inexpensive checker for that?

Other side note: Yeah it's taking me longer than I thought to finish. I blame caution, lots of reading and old bones.

2001 Boxster S 6-speed Manual

As someone that does this for a living, let me give you some basics:

1. Forget about anyone's instructions except for LN Engineering. While some people have gotten away using the so-called set screw method, others have had major league problems. Because the gear you are pushing on with the set screws is a press fit to the IMS shaft, you can actually move the gear on the shaft, which then requires taking the engine apart to fix. Bad idea. Get a copy of the LN instructions and follow them to the letter, they are the only ones known to not create problems; and don't cheap out on getting the necessary tooling.
2. TDC is only for the #1 cylinder, there is no other engine position will minimize valve spring loading, which is what will try to rotate the engine during this process. Once the engine is rotated to TDC (turning clockwise only), it should not be moved and the locking pin should not be removed until everything is reassembled.
3. The "green stuff" on the bolts is a micro encapsulation Porsche uses to help hold the bolts tight. The blue on the flywheel bolts is thread locker. And while on the subject, you should not even consider reusing any of the pressure plate or flywheel bolts, they are single use fasteners.
4. The three chain tensioners can be removed. It is always a good idea to clean them and at least check them for signs of wear as it is a pain in the butt to go back in to replace a weak one. Be sure to note which tensioner came from where, they are not all the same.
5. A blown AOS will leave a lot of oil in the intake system, and take forever to burn off unless you take the system apart and manually clean everything out.
6. Buy a leak down tester rather than a compression gauge, leak down tests tell you a lot more than a simple compression test.

Thanks JFP in PA, as always, you give wizened informative clarity.

I wouldn't even think of reusing the flywheel bolts or pressure plate bolts (or old seals), and I did purchase the LN toolkit. But in reading instruction #6, from LN's site(Rev16 Jan 2013), it is not specifically stating "which" exhaust camshaft to place the 5 chain lock on. According to the Bentley YouTube video, at least on the three chain motors, both cyl 1-3 and 4-6 intake and exhaust camshafts were locked into place and all three tensioners removed. LN's site under #7 suggests loosening/removing the third one only if "centeredness" isn't achieved.

Also, if the tensioners are removed, (at least the two) don't they have to be submerged in new oil prior to being reinstalled? If memory serves, I saw that on a rebuild. I'll be sure to follow the visual cues on the tensioner and the engine for which is which.

----

From LN:

#6: Use appropriate long cam lock tool for 3-chain or short cam lock tool for 5-chain engine to lock cams prior to removing chain tensioners. Lock camshaft in head with tensioner accessed from underside of the engine, closest to flywheel.

#7. Remove the IMS to crankshaft chain tensioner as well as well the chain tensioner on the cylinder head for which you have locked the cam. If tensioners are worn or were noisy at startup, replace. NOTE: If the flange does not come off easily, the bearing is not centered, or you cannot reinstall the flange, then loosen and/or remove the third chain tensioner.

----

That second sentence in #6 is hard to *interpret/visualize. If I read #6 & #7 correctly, Only two tensioners need to be removed (Ims/crankshaft & the tensioner for 4-6 cyl.), the third optional (cyl 1-3 - by the AC behind the driver seat) if necessity applies. The cams on the left side of the flywheel (If you are facing the flywheel) are cylinders 4-6, the upper is the intake the lower is the exhaust. On a 5 chain motor, put the 5-chain lock on the exhaust cam for cyl. 4-6. Is that correct?

{*Addendum: In some prior posts I had originally mixed up referring which engine sides were which before because of my dyslexia - calling the drivers side cylinders 1-3 and passenger side 4-6. Sorry if that adds to any confusion. That's why visuals usually clear up things for me, but I don't usually have problems interpreting what I've read if I read something several times.}

On the AOS, that was changed out about 20K ago...maybe a bit less. It was the older problematic aos that was replaced.

Though I could cut the 3 chain lock to work as a second 5-chain, the thickness is different. The 5 - chain lock is slightly beveled. Though I could "bevel" the altered 3 chain in addition to cutting it, would it "fit" on a five chain as it is, keeping the integrity of the timing (and the tool)intact?

Thanks again for your help with this...I'll be making a donation to the site soon.

[JFP in PA]

Hi all and happy festivus,

I can't find any literature on the LN special tools if the width differences on the 5 chain and 3 chain camshaft locks means that you needn't bother putting the 3 chain lock on Cyls 1-3 (or on a 5-chain motor) if you've already got the 5 chain lock on Cyls 4-6...just for the extra piece of mind that locking both sides would offer. I see the 3-chain lock is slightly thicker, and doesn't seem to fit in. And as for rotating the engine at TDC, is it TDC for cyl 4-6 or TDC for 1-3?

Also, since I've got the 5-chain version with the double row bearing, do all the chain tensioners need to be loosened/removed? LN documents just the IMS and cyl 4-6(closest to flywheel) removal. I seem to recall that with the 5 chains, two of the tensioners could be loosened to their last thread and don't have to be removed, the one in the back, behind the drivers seat can be left alone. I remember that some of the initial warnings when these bearings came into place was to 'not' remove the chain tensioners at all, otherwise bad things would happen to the timing...Am I dreaming, or did the rules change? With all the debates back and forth on all the boards, it leaves me wondering...on top of that, using the din screws as suggested by Wayne Dempsy leaves me wondering why would you rotate the engine after locking down the camshafts and achieving TDC?(I know it is to hold the shaft in place....but the way it is spoken about leaves open to "when" (or if) it should be done.

Is the Green stuff on bolts like the ones that mate the engine and tranny together an anti-corrosive? I don't know if it's my dexlexia but I thought it was a different color. There was Blue matter on the flywheel bolts, any thoughts what the two different substances are?

Side note:

Cyl 4 spark plug was very slightly oil wet other spark plugs were dry. Cyl 4 (right behind the driver seat) is near where I had the leak over from the 'positive crankcase ventilation valve'. There was also some grimy buildup in the intake manifold on the side of the resonance tube, so I'm thinking that's the cause. Looking down into the bores from where the Intake Manifold would be shows all three to be in decent shape in a cursory visual inspection compared to other pics I've seen in the internet wilds. But I should get a compression tester, any suggestions on getting an inexpensive checker for that?

Other side note: Yeah it's taking me longer than I thought to finish. I blame caution, lots of reading and old bones.

2001 Boxster S 6-speed Manual

As someone that does this for a living, let me give you some basics:

1. Forget about anyone's instructions except for LN Engineering. While some people have gotten away using the so-called set screw method, others have had major league problems. Because the gear you are pushing on with the set screws is a press fit to the IMS shaft, you can actually move the gear on the shaft, which then requires taking the engine apart to fix. Bad idea. Get a copy of the LN instructions and follow them to the letter, they are the only ones known to not create problems; and don't cheap out on getting the necessary tooling.
2. TDC is only for the #1 cylinder, there is no other engine position will minimize valve spring loading, which is what will try to rotate the engine during this process. Once the engine is rotated to TDC (turning clockwise only), it should not be moved and the locking pin should not be removed until everything is reassembled.
3. The "green stuff" on the bolts is a micro encapsulation Porsche uses to help hold the bolts tight. The blue on the flywheel bolts is thread locker. And while on the subject, you should not even consider reusing any of the pressure plate or flywheel bolts, they are single use fasteners.
4. The three chain tensioners can be removed. It is always a good idea to clean them and at least check them for signs of wear as it is a pain in the butt to go back in to replace a weak one. Be sure to note which tensioner came from where, they are not all the same.
5. A blown AOS will leave a lot of oil in the intake system, and take forever to burn off unless you take the system apart and manually clean everything out.
6. Buy a leak down tester rather than a compression gauge, leak down tests tell you a lot more than a simple compression test.

Thanks JFP in PA, as always, you give wizened informative clarity.

I wouldn't even think of reusing the flywheel bolts or pressure plate bolts (or old seals), and I did purchase the LN toolkit. But in reading instruction #6, from LN's site(Rev16 Jan 2013), it is not specifically stating "which" exhaust camshaft to place the 5 chain lock on. According to the Bentley YouTube video, at least on the three chain motors, both cyl 1-3 and 4-6 intake and exhaust camshafts were locked into place and all three tensioners removed. LN's site under #7 suggests loosening/removing the third one only if "centeredness" isn't achieved.

Also, if the tensioners are removed, (at least the two) don't they have to be submerged in new oil prior to being reinstalled? If memory serves, I saw that on a rebuild. I'll be sure to follow the visual cues on the tensioner and the engine for which is which.

----

From LN:

#6: Use appropriate long cam lock tool for 3-chain or short cam lock tool for 5-chain engine to lock cams prior to removing chain tensioners. Lock camshaft in head with tensioner accessed from underside of the engine, closest to flywheel.

#7. Remove the IMS to crankshaft chain tensioner as well as well the chain tensioner on the cylinder head for which you have locked the cam. If tensioners are worn or were noisy at startup, replace. NOTE: If the flange does not come off easily, the bearing is not centered, or you cannot reinstall the flange, then loosen and/or remove the third chain tensioner.

----

That second sentence in #6 is hard to *interpret/visualize. If I read #6 & #7 correctly, Only two tensioners need to be removed (Ims/crankshaft & the tensioner for 4-6 cyl.), the third optional (cyl 1-3 - by the AC behind the driver seat) if necessity applies. The cams on the left side of the flywheel (If you are facing the flywheel) are cylinders 4-6, the upper is the intake the lower is the exhaust. On a 5 chain motor, put the 5-chain lock on the exhaust cam for cyl. 4-6. Is that correct?

{*Addendum: In some prior posts I had originally mixed up referring which engine sides were which before because of my dyslexia - calling the drivers side cylinders 1-3 and passenger side 4-6. Sorry if that adds to any confusion. That's why visuals usually clear up things for me, but I don't usually have problems interpreting what I've read if I read something several times.}

On the AOS, that was changed out about 20K ago...maybe a bit less. It was the older problematic aos that was replaced.

Though I could cut the 3 chain lock to work as a second 5-chain, the thickness is different. The 5 - chain lock is slightly beveled. Though I could "bevel" the altered 3 chain in addition to cutting it, would it "fit" on a five chain as it is, keeping the integrity of the timing (and the tool)intact?

Thanks again for your help with this...I'll be making a donation to the site soon.

You are reading too much into non comparable statements. Bentley is talking about 3 chain motors, which are decidedly more prone to jump timing during an IMS retrofit, so both cams get locked down and all three tensioners are removed as a precaution. On a five chain motor, which you have, each set of cams also has a chain running cam to cam, so timing jumps are much less probable and only one cam set needs to be locked by holding a single cam, but you can still do both banks if you feel safer and which is also a good idea. You can also get by pulling only the two tensioners mentioned in the LN instructions, unless you find that pulling the flange off is hard, meaning there is still tension on the shaft; then you would pull the third tensioner to relive the flange. In reality, once the car is up in the air and the engine is locked down, pulling all three tensioners is a simple operation, and allows you to check them for problems, as well as precluding the off center problem. On many retrofits, the combination of noise complaints and higher than desirable cam deviation values prior to the job makes looking at and potentially replacing the three tensioners pretty much a done deal. Porsche has updated these tensioners more than once since your car was built, and while they are not cheap (about $100 per), it would be less cost effective to have to do this twice.

Rather than hacking up the three chain lock, why not take the five chain unit to a local fab shop and have them make you a second one? They are not that complicated.

And, yes, the tensioners should be pumped in oil before use; used ones should be pumped in warm Marvel Mystery Oil until they clean all the crud out of them first, then in engine oil to prime them.

[zodman]

Ok, I can verify that the engine is at TDC for cyl 1 because the intake cam plug (by the AOS) has the notch pointing right(eastward). When I try to install the five-chain cam lock on the 4-6 cyl. exhaust cams, it does not fit square in the two notches. It will nest in the top, but it is cleaving a little too much towards the flywheel side, leaving a slight gap towards the left. Fudging it a tad to fit in proper isn't happening. Since it isn't lining up properly, I'm hesitant about proceeding further with cyls 4-6 because I want a nice snug fit and I suspect it may pop out once I start to loosen the tensioners. If I step out of TDC for a moment, as in the attached picture, I can get it to mate into the 4-6 exhaust cam....In the photo, the edge of my dirty fingernail is touching the notch on the crank. The redline is an eyeball guess of the true TDC. - I'm just demonstrating the distance from the crankshaft perspective since I can't get any decent photos on the other side because of space restrictions...So it's off somewhere in the distance from the redline to my finger for 4-6.

However, when I take that same 5 chain lock and put it on the Cyls 1-3(passenger side by passenger seat and going forward to the TDC) the locking point it is a perfect fit in cly 1-3....Snug as a bug as long as I don't cinch it up. On the Cyl 1-3 side, the problem is in the tool, once it is carefully *cinched up, the raised edge of the tool hits the side of the engine. If it was machined down about 2mm further, it would kiss the side of the engine. As it stands, either the tool has to be shaved a touch or the little nib that sticks out for cam locks on the head needs to be shaved. It fits square there on Cyl 4-6, but as I mentioned, I'm not confident it will stay put once the tensioners are removed.

Do I have a slight timing issue with 4-6 that should be addressed first? Or is the ever so slight deviation a norm for these older cars?

If I can just put the lock on the Cyl 1-3 and proceed with the ims install, (maybe using a washer to even up the *mating) instead of cyls 4-6 that should work ok right? I was initially thinking I could eye the lock on 4-6 while I was relieving the tension, but it may not happen that way after all.

Thanks again for your time and your input.

[JFP in PA]

Couple of points:

1. If you are using just the one 5 chain cam tool, it has to be on the water pump end of the engine. You can also put a second one on the other end of the engine, but the one on the water pump end is important.
2. It is not unusual for an older engine to be somewhat off in cam timing, which is why you should run cam deviation checks prior and after a retrofit.
3. You should not be locking the cams by moving the engine off TDC, that pin has to remain in the crank pulley during the entire proceedure.
4. Quite often, you need to rotate the engine more than one cycle before the cams will line up, this is nothing unusual.
5. If you have rotated the engine by hand (clockwise only) through multiple cycles and the cam slots still to not line up, you may have a cam timing problem that needs to be addressed before the retrofit.

[zodman]

Thanks, on #1 I was certain it had to be there on 4-6 as that's why I wouldn't progress further. As for item #3 just want to reassure you that was just for photo clarity, and to see what it should look like if it is set proper. I wouldn't move it off TDC during the procedure, or not have the locking pin in place. I'll give the crank a few clockwise rotations to see if it's old bones loosen up....usually works for me in the morning.

[zodman]

Got it locked down after rotating crank a few times, placed a wedge of wood between the bottom of the Cam lock and the chassis cross-brace. Checked position using dental mirror during each "jolt" to the engine when loosening the tensioners.

Nostalgia shot...That 24mm tool on the big nut is from the first motorcycle I ever owned when I turned 24. It was a used Honda...But that's all I can remember...It was the tail end of the 80s after all.

Bearing is off, had a little oil spill out from the tube.

Using red light to eliminate glare. I see the shaft is pulled slightly to the upper left. May have to loosen tensioner behind driver seat after all. Am going to think about it.

Here is the bearing by it's lonesome. At the edge, a touch of grime. Other than the loose screw in the picture, the bearing appears for all intents and purposes perfectly normal for 90k (or so)

What flavor/weight of transmission fluid would you go with for these older boxsters? (Though it appears you favor the oem)

Would loctite 242 be ok to use on the flywheel bolts?

For the RMS, (being installed at a depth of 15mm - The previous one was at 12mm) would you pack the back of the seal with any lithium/moly wheel bearing grease...seems overkill, but someone did suggest that. And on the subject, would you pre oil the crankshaft with fresh engine oil or Olista Optimoly 3EP to help guide the new RMS seal on?

I may have to mail you one of my prints when this is all done.

Edited December 20, 2013 by zodman

[JFP in PA]

IMG_1541.JPG

Got it locked down after rotating crank a few times, placed a wedge of wood between the bottom of the Cam lock and the chassis cross-brace. Checked position using dental mirror during each "jolt" to the engine when loosening the tensioners.

IMG_1543.JPG

Nostalgia shot...That 24mm tool on the big nut is from the first motorcycle I ever owned when I turned 24. It was a used Honda...But that's all I can remember...It was the tail end of the 80s after all.

IMG_1545.JPG

Bearing is off, had a little oil spill out from the tube.

IMG_1546.JPG

Using red light to eliminate glare. I see the shaft is pulled slightly to the upper left. May have to loosen tensioner behind driver seat after all. Am going to think about it.

IMG_1557.JPG

Here is the bearing by it's lonesome. At the edge, a touch of grime. Other than the loose screw in the picture, the bearing appears for all intents and purposes perfectly normal for 90k (or so)

What flavor/weight of transmission fluid would you go with for these older boxsters? (Though it appears you favor the oem)

Would loctite 242 be ok to use on the flywheel bolts?

For the RMS, (being installed at a depth of 15mm - The previous one was at 12mm) would you pack the back of the seal with any lithium/moly wheel bearing grease...seems overkill, but someone did suggest that. And on the subject, would you pre oil the crankshaft with fresh engine oil or Olista Optimoly 3EP to help guide the new RMS seal on?

I may have to mail you one of my prints when this is all done.

We only use the OEM gear oils, I've mentioned several times previously that Porsche uses a unique full synthetic gear oil that is made to their specs and which the larger oil companies admit they do not have a match for, so why mess around with something else that may or may not work?

Loctite 242 is a low strength product, I would prefer to use 268 which is a high strength thread locker on the new flywheel and pressure plate bolts. I also use a small bead of Loctite 574 on the bottom of the IMS center bolt nut, and a small amount of Loctite 290 Green wicking thread locker on the center bolt threads; the last two are done to prevent small oil leaks that come from engine oil wicking up the center bolt threads and dripping behind the flywheel, which can shorten the life of the flywheel's dual mass elastomer.

The correct install depth (measured from the flywheel mating surface of the crankshaft) for the PTFE RMS seal is 13MM, which is critical. It is also critical that all mating surfaces for the seal be scrupulously clean and that no lubricant of any kind be used as it will cause leaks.

[zodman]

Finding local sources here in the Bay Area for Loctite (that isn't super glue) is elusive to say the least, so I may have to find alternatives, but I'll seek out the Loctite# first. As for the 574, I've got Curil-T. I also have the Loctite 5900. If anyone here is in the BAY AREA knows where Loctite (in those numbers mentioned) is sold in stores, please either pm me or respond to this...Thanks.

I'll shave off another 2mm on my tool and install clean and dry, I thought I read the new seal must be placed 3mm past the location of the former seal, therefore it would mate on untouched metal...I also take it you don't care for the use of Curil-T on the outside lip of the seal that kisses the crankcase...

I'll pick up 3 liters of T-Fluid at a local Stealer.

[JFP in PA]

Finding local sources here in the Bay Area for Loctite (that isn't super glue) is elusive to say the least, so I may have to find alternatives, but I'll seek out the Loctite# first. As for the 574, I've got Curil-T. I also have the Loctite 5900. If anyone here is in the BAY AREA knows where Loctite (in those numbers mentioned) is sold in stores, please either pm me or respond to this...Thanks.

I'll shave off another 2mm on my tool and install clean and dry, I thought I read the new seal must be placed 3mm past the location of the former seal, therefore it would mate on untouched metal...I also take it you don't care for the use of Curil-T on the outside lip of the seal that kisses the crankcase...

I'll pick up 3 liters of T-Fluid at a local Stealer.

Check with any industrial supply houses such as Grainger's in your area, they carry the Loctite line. I think Loctite (Henkel) also has a "where to buy" feature on their website. Amazon.com also sells most Loctite products.

Loctite 5900, DriBond, and Curil-T are fine mating surface sealants for use on the sump or cam covers, but they are not for use on the RMS.

Do not use anything on the PTFE seal, it must be clean and free of any oil or sealants to work properly. We have had to replace more than one recent DIY fitted RMS seal because they used a lubricant or sealant.

[zodman]

Crazy World...

I live less than 5 minutes from SSF Auto(the big wholesaler for a lot of P-parts), and anything I buy through Pelican that is shipped via FedEx has to travel well over a hundred miles to get to me, though I could drive over there and pick it up...burning less than a gallon of fuel and a half hour of my time(If I was allowed)....And there isn't a smudge of 268 or 290 within 30 miles of me. I've got a Grainger within 7 miles of me, and they don't have either in stock at their local store.

[JFP in PA]

You can try Amazon with an overnight delivery, or check the Henkel website to see who carries what you need.

SSF, by-the-by, is the "official" distributor of all of LN and Jake Raby's retrofit products, including the IMS Solution product.

[zodman]

Grainger will have the 290 and the 268 local to me within 7 miles on Monday. The closest local Stealer (just down the street from Grainger) only sells the t-fluid in 20 liter containers....I didn't bother to ask the price. Sunset will ship 3 liters to me for 26.80 a liter + shipping.

If I had an "in" to SSF, that'd be great. Hate to see stuff come from there and sometimes travel up to 100 miles when I live only a few minutes away from there.

[JFP in PA]

Grainger will have the 290 and the 268 local to me within 7 miles on Monday. The closest local Stealer (just down the street from Grainger) only sells the t-fluid in 20 liter containers....I didn't bother to ask the price. Sunset will ship 3 liters to me for 26.80 a liter + shipping.

If I had an "in" to SSF, that'd be great. Hate to see stuff come from there and sometimes travel up to 100 miles when I live only a few minutes away from there.

Unless I am mistaken, SSF will sell to anyone with a valid credit card.

[zodman]

My understanding was that they are wholesale only...If they'll sell to anyone, I would have purchased as much as I could have from them to begin with.

https://www.ssfautoparts.com/#page_signup

[JFP in PA]

My understanding was that they are wholesale only...If they'll sell to anyone, I would have purchased as much as I could have from them to begin with.

https://www.ssfautoparts.com/#page_signup

Considering that a couple people I know have purchased from them, and they are not businesses, the must be a way around the "wholesale only".

[zodman]

They'll provide a SSF retail partner for a private individual. I should have looked into it further, but I ended up buying from Sunset and Pelican the majority of what I needed.

[zodman]

Got two quick questions on the LN Bearing. Specifically the small rubber seal on the shaft. Documentation doesn't mention if it should be on or off the bearing shaft when the bearing is sent to the deep freeze. Second one...Documentation also doesn't state whether that same small seal should be resting against the back wall of the shaft, behind the flange and nut. OR Should it be between the flange and the nut?

Not that I'm one of those that needs the "Caution: Coffee Hot" signs on my morning cup, but this detail of where the rubber seal is supposed to be is a mystery...

[JFP in PA]

Got two quick questions on the LN Bearing. Specifically the small rubber seal on the shaft. Documentation doesn't mention if it should be on or off the bearing shaft when the bearing is sent to the deep freeze. Second one...Documentation also doesn't state whether that same small seal should be resting against the back wall of the shaft, behind the flange and nut. OR Should it be between the flange and the nut?

Not that I'm one of those that needs the "Caution: Coffee Hot" signs on my morning cup, but this detail of where the rubber seal is supposed to be is a mystery...

By "bearing shaft", I assume you are referring to the bearing center bolt:

As you can see from this photo, the LN center bolt (on the left) does not have a grove cut in it for the seal ring that is on the OEM center bolt (right side). This is because many OEM IMS failures result in the center bolt failing at the grove area, so LN made the center bolt thicker and did not use the o-ring, which is also why you need to use the two special thread locker/wicking sealants I mentioned earlier.

[zodman]

Thanks, yes the bolt...There is a o-ring on it though. They just don't mention where that o-ring should be in the final lines of the documentation, just the use of the locker/sealants in case the o-ring fails. I suspect the o-ring is between the nut and the flange, but I thought I'd ask.

[JFP in PA]

Thanks, yes the bolt...There is a o-ring on it though. They just don't mention where that o-ring should be in the final lines of the documentation, just the use of the locker/sealants in case the o-ring fails. I suspect the o-ring is between the nut and the flange, but I thought I'd ask.

Sorry, my first response was incorrect (had to go look at an assembly), the small O-ring they provide goes inside the flange before the flange is installed. Be sure to put a small amount of lubricant (silicone would be best) on the inner O-ring surface before sliding the flange onto the center bolt shaft (see item #20 in the LN instructions). You can just see the O-ring is this enlarged photo:

[zodman]

Thanks again, I peeked inside the flange and lo-and-behold...an o-ring already there. The one on the bolt must be a spare...any harm in installing it like the attached image from pelican?

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Boxster_Tech/14-ENGINE-Intermediate_Shaft_Bearing/images_large/Pic123.jpg

[JFP in PA]

Thanks again, I peeked inside the flange and lo-and-behold...an o-ring already there. The one on the bolt must be a spare...any harm in installing it like the attached image from pelican?

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Boxster_Tech/14-ENGINE-Intermediate_Shaft_Bearing/images_large/Pic123.jpg

As long as it does not interfere in any way with the torque of the center bolt nut (e.g.: it sits in a recess that allows the nut to fully contact the flange), it should not be an issue. Just curious, whose kit are you using? Reason I ask it that Pelican's kit used an O-ring spacer before the center bolt nut, which keeps the nut off the O-ring, while the LN kit does not..........

[zodman]

Since my car is the double row I didn't see any sense in downgrading to the pelican kit (spacer with the single bearing). Despite the "battle of the balls" about whose ball bearings were the best, I'm fairly certain LN has done their homework, so I went with their D.R. bearing.