Car height for removing transmission

[zodman]

2001S Boxster. 89k 6-Speed Manual

Been away for a bit, had my own internal upgrades happening (surgery for an abdominal aortic aneurysm). Oil change was done at the same time I did my brakes and rotors and found the tell-tale spot between the trans and engine.

No ferrous metal found in oil pump or oil filter, however I did find two tiny aluminum flakes in the oil pan, about the thickness of ten sheets of printer paper> a quarter of an inch long and tapered...kind of giving me the impression of a cast-off from the casting process. Also had a few small nubs of a material that reminded me not of the cover for a bearing, but an improperly set thickness of a gasket bead that tooled around the oil pan.

The engine itself runs great, no odd noises one would expect from a pending IMS failure though I do lack a Durametric Tester. Thus, I suspect it's the RMS, but we know what it really means> RMS+ IMS+ Clutch+ Sparkplugs+ etc. etc. as it nearing the 90k zone.

I've done quite a bit of work myself on the car, changing the rear struts, the AOS, Coolant Reserve tank, water pump, serp. belt and replacing the plastic top with a glass top. With only the fuel pump and tires done by outside vendors....But I'm not as bendy as I was right before my own 50k mark...

My question is how high should I raise the car to remove the tranny so I can change the RMS and IMS and how high should I raise the car to remove the engine if it comes to that? Obviously, I'll need to remove the back bumper as well, but I just want to make sure I've got the car raised high enough to at least change out the RMS and IMS with the engine still in place, but knowing the safest jack stand height for an engine removal is good info to have. I've tried to locate info here and elsewhere on the web, but it's buried too deep.

Thanks in advance...

Z

[kbrandsma]

The short answer is, As high as you can get it. That said, I bought some two ton jack stands at SEARS and they worked great. I chose not to remove the back bumper, although it is very simple to remove it.

About 5 years ago, I replaced my RMS, upgraded my IMS, replaced the clutch, AOS and Oil fill tubes. Total bill was about $400 in parts from Sunset.

Edited October 17, 2013 by kbrandsma

[zodman]

Obviously I like the short answer, but I need the assurance in inches from floor to jack post on car to know I begun the journey of a thousand ft/lbs torque on the right path:)

[kbrandsma]

Here is the exact setup I used in 2007 with 60,000 US miles on my speedmeter when I replaced the clutch. The setup is on sale now at Sears. I also added custom cut hockey pucks for the jack stands.

For reviews from buyers press HERE!

I have since upgraded my setup with a low race type jack. I will replace my clutch again next April (140,000 miles). Again, the higher you can raise the car the better. If you can find a full vehicle lift, that would be preferred! (See transmission jack below.)

You can buy a more expensive jack for sure, my point being is that you don't need to spend a whole lot of money for a hydraulic jack and jack stands to do this project.

Edited October 18, 2013 by kbrandsma

[kbrandsma]

I also purchased a transmission jack from Harbor Freight.

This came in handy when I initiatlly lowered the transmission on removal and later when re-installing the transmission (to line up bolts). The transmission jack has also came in handy for other Boxster projects like when I replaced my front motor mount. I used it to drop the engine to change the mount.

To slide the transmission out from under the car to work on the clutch, I had to move the tranny off of the transmission jack stand and slide the tranny out under the car by itself, because my Sears jack stands weren't high enough to allow me to just roll the tranny out of the way attached to the transmission jack stand.

Edited October 18, 2013 by kbrandsma

[zodman]

Heck I'd buy a 2 post lift if I could be sure of the strength of the concrete floor beneath me. Even a scissor lift looks promising, however, the driveway leading into the garage is quite an incline and the garage floor itself is sloped more than my comfort level allows for a scissor lift to reside in the center of the floor...I'd know how to bring in a vehicle, but I'd be asking for trouble once others start driving into and out of the garage that can barely handle the open space now :eek:

The MaxJax would be ideal, but again, I have no knowledge of the quality of the floor concrete to justify the cost of it.

I have a similar quartet of Jackstands and a very similar floor jack....they're just are a bit intimidating at the last rungs of height, hence my question for the board.

Sweet price on the H.F. tran jack. They are a bit more proud of the very same identical chinese made jack at Sears(.)com, asking 449 dollars. Seeing how it's 7.25 inches at it's minimum, adding the height of the trans at its highest point plus a few inches for spares (pivoting the degree of swivel tilt needed) should give me enough of a raw answer hopefully.

Thanks for the input...

Z

[NewArt1]

You can check out the pertinent posts at this link http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/48709-has-anyone-actually-diy-chain-tensioner-pads.html

I will be removing the engine in a few weeks but I will be removing the cross brace , so it won't be necessary to lift the car quite so high!

I will use 24" jack stands and an ATV jack to drop the motor and roll it out.

[zodman]

Thanks NewArt1, that helped a lot!

[zodman]

Update...

After removing all the accoutrements leading to the meaning of life...err the question is it the RMS or the IMS, it is the RMS...with the cover plate of the IMS appearing to also be leaking.

It was fairly clean despite the leak so things were just caught in time. I had one pesky flywheel bolt that had separation anxiety issues with the flywheel, but after sacrificing some red DNA from my knuckles (twice) on my flywheel, I then sourced a cheaply made chinese 17mm socket and some hammer time, the last bolt came off.

The IMS cover plate appears to be the original one when the car was first made, though I haven't removed it yet. (Waiting for all the parts to be ordered and arrived) But the bearing cover is a Double Row bearing cover.

----

In prepping the car for the impending implant surgery, I took off the cover behind the seat and I was surprised to find another leak. This time it is in the area of the camshaft just off of the first fourth cylinder by the (US)driver seat. My first thought was to check the spark plug"tube area", but it was dry. My next thought was that maybe it was a head gasket leak - however - the head-gaskets on these cars are pretty robust. Potential D-Chunk? Nay...since the car is a 3.2 very unlikely. Cam cover leak? Possible, but I'd likely see more wet oil on the bottom area of the engine in that region and the sides where it attaches rather than the top of the engine There was more wet where the head gasket is rather than the cam cover.

So it's a mystery I looked further into. An Oily substance is on top on the area around cyl 1 4 on the camshaft section. There appears to be a drain overflow hose from the power steering pump, but the pump doesn't appear to be missing any fluids from the last time I checked. The Throttle body was cleaned when I replaced the AOS which was at least 15k ago. The resonance tube looked grimy - not the dry dust but that moistened grime. I don't remember cleaning the resonance tube before, and after I removed it, it is looking more like the culprit of the leak as there was wet oil inside of it. OR a little known part known as the "Positive crankcase ventilation valve" is causing the new AOS to fail prematurely, leading to a leak in the region of the top of the camshaft in the area of the 1st 4th cyl. (Behind the [uS] drivers seat.)

That's where I am in this project. I'm debating taking off the intake manifold for 1-3 4-6 but it seems there are more things to be aware of before tackling that - Though I know only 6 bolts hold it to the 4-6 heads. I'd like to remove it in order to clean everything in that region, to at least keep a more diligent eye on it in the near future in case it is a more significant oil leak, but I haven't found a good step-by-step DIY for removing the intake manifold just above cyl. 4-6 . If someone has a link for that, that would be most appreciated.

z

Edited note on which cylinders are involved.

Edited December 18, 2013 by zodman

[NewArt1]

So, did you drop the engine? I still haven't done mine since I'm still enjoying the snow-free roads. Coming very soon though! (the snow and the engine work) :eek:

[zodman]

I'm still debating dropping the engine, even if I don't pull it out from under the car - just to get access to the top of 1-3 cyl.

Since the part 'Positive crankcase ventilation valve' maybe the main culprit of leak#2, I want to be able to get to that part and log its removal (and thus it's reinstallation) so I can begin the process of ordering all the parts.

[zodman]

I should add, I have the car at a height of 18 inches off the ground...Measured from floor to rear lift point in front of the rear tire. 17 in the front to account for the slope in the floor. If I removed the cross brace, I don't think the CV axles would be accommodating the removal, but there is enough space there to at least remove the transmission(with rear bumper, muffler removed). I do like the prospect of raising the rear a bit higher using the cross brace - after the engine is dropped in place, but then my recent alignment would become moot. Forgetting the alignment for a moment, after one raises the car sans engine, after removing the cross member, there maybe some difficulty putting the crossmember back in place even immediately after engine removal as the bolts holding it on each side (L=R )may spread some small amount

Decisions decisions...

[pjq]

Haaaha, NewArt I think I've scarred you for life with the pic of my car ready for downhill skiing!

Zodman i uesd a web ratchet to pull the exhaust system back into place (worked well) as well as using the web ratchet for replacing the large triangular reinforcement plate that ties the left to right suspension together (worked well), forgot to mention that prior NewArt.

One or two of these web ratchets would probably do the job for pulling your crossmember back into place.

Note on car jacked height - I've been under the car a couple times recentley and have only used the 3 ton car stands with a height of approx. 18 inches - what a PITA, you don't have much room to manouver and turn. Its just ok for oil change and inspection. I think 21 inches plus would be a good height to start with. Realistically you want to be able to roll under your car so what ever your shoulder width is would make a good minimum car height.

Regarding the wet spot on your engine around #1 cylinder area, I don't think it could be the steering reservoir, that is more on the other side of the engine center line.

Attached are a couple pics that might help solve your problem. The red rag is stuck in the steering pump tube where the reservoir will mount to. The first pic is before rebuild, the second is after rebuild.

[zodman]

I had forgotten I had 6-ton jacks under the stairs, which were overkill of course, but they still hold the car up better than the questionable 1.5 ton jacks. I could have lifted the car higher but I had reached the end of my floor jack's height, even using a carefully placed block of wood for a few inches more of height.

I've eliminated the power steering pump as the source as well, but there are two other suspects....co-conspiritors...The boot for the drivers side resonance tube, and the Positive crankcase ventilation valve - i.e. that object that connects to the AOS hose that runs across your engine. One bolt and a gasket holds the object to the camshaft 4-6 bank.....at least in the 986S.

The area around the positive crankcase ventilation valve was oily and wet grimy radiating out from its location. Pooling of a small amount oil on top of the engine(similar to your picture), is directly under the boot for the resonance tube.

---

Where I am right now in the project is carefully trying to separate the fuel rail from the exhaust manifold. I've got the two bolts off of it, but erring on the side of caution, I'm still trying to find a DIY for the cyl 4-6.

Is there a pressure relief valve I should adjust first to relieve the pressure in the lines?

and thanks pjq for your additional feedback. It is most appreciated.

=====

Edited note on which cylinders are involved.

Edited December 18, 2013 by zodman

[pjq]

What about the oil filler tube? It is just a plastic to plastic sleeve with a spring clamp, no seals or O rings, it is the black pipe about 1.25" going from center front towards rear #3 cylinder in rebuilt pic.

When I did my fuel rack I first disconnected it under the car, driver side just forward of the rear wheel well if I recall. Fuel return connection and fuel vent line connection. When I took the rack and injectors out I had to pull more than I thought I would, likewise for putting them back in.

Did you check out "101 projects for your porsche boxster", pelican parts. I bought both books 101 projects and the Bentley bible, they compliment each other.

If you don't have a great memory take lots of pics before you take something apart because EVERYTHING has to go back in its original place in its original orientation.

Here some more pics for the fuel injection. My car is a 2004 S.

[zodman]

I'll be buying both books once I've ordered the parts, though I have a fairly good memory, I catalog with notes, pictures and video as I work along. I even try to keep bolts and nuts where-ever they came from still attached to each part.

I'll be replacing the oil filler tube as well, though it was caked in its own grimy wet oil, it didn't appear to be causing any leak downwards to the block as near as I can tell.

I see in your third picture you had disconnected your fuel lines entirely...prior to dropping the engine. Though I don't need to preform any fuel injector maintenance at this time, I should be able to separate the fuel line rail and injectors from the manifold without disrupting the pressure (or the fuel line) right?

*With mine being the 2001S, I think it doesn't have the fuel return line.

Edited November 7, 2013 by zodman

[NewArt1]

The 6 ton jacks should go to 24" so you should be fine. If you remove the cross member, the wheels will spread (bye bye alignment) but you can pull them back as pjq mentioned with a ratchet strap. Don't forget to post some of those pictures and/or videos! :-)

[NewArt1]

pjq, a very pretty picture of your rebuilt motor! Adding the little blue bows was a bit of overkill though! :P

[zodman]

Not finding any answers to the safe and proper removal of the 4-6 manifold, I found myself in a quandary, trying to logically solve the riddle.

Disconnected the electrical connections (spark etc. fuel)

Removed bolts holding fuel rail (2)

Removed the air filter housing...Removed the bolts on the manifold (6)

Removed single bolt holding positive crankcase ventilation valve

The hose that runs across the engine that connects to the positive crankcase ventilation valve is one tricky bastard. There's not much flex to it, and only a few inches of play within the area of the manifold. In considering its removal, I also removed the AOS which gave a little but of flex, but not as much as I'd hoped. I deduced some room could be gained if I removed the oil cooler---what's the harm in trying...I'd already drained the oil....

Good thing I'd already covered and masked out the Intakes.

The oil sep still had a healthy dose of coolant in it as well as some oil. After cleaning up that fiasco, and chiding myself for forgetting to also drain the coolant for an impending flush, I noticed two fairly large pieces of plastic that were stuck in the coolant portion of the sep. in the rear portion of the unit...about the same color and thickness of the Air filter housing plastic.

This is turning into a snowball...

My thoughts were immediately on the water pump, though I recently just replaced it, the previous one was also fine...but the blades aren't black, they are a shade of brown. I don't know how long those two pieces of plastic were in there....just that they are there. If anyone encountered similar experience from that I'd like to hear the details.

But in other news, I did successfully remove the intake manifold.

Now the cleanup begins...

Edited December 18, 2013 by zodman

[zodman]

Haaaha, NewArt I think I've scarred you for life with the pic of my car ready for downhill skiing!

Zodman i uesd a web ratchet to pull the exhaust system back into place (worked well) as well as using the web ratchet for replacing the large triangular reinforcement plate that ties the left to right suspension together (worked well), forgot to mention that prior NewArt.

One or two of these web ratchets would probably do the job for pulling your crossmember back into place.

Note on car jacked height - I've been under the car a couple times recentley and have only used the 3 ton car stands with a height of approx. 18 inches - what a PITA, you don't have much room to manouver and turn. Its just ok for oil change and inspection. I think 21 inches plus would be a good height to start with. Realistically you want to be able to roll under your car so what ever your shoulder width is would make a good minimum car height.

Regarding the wet spot on your engine around #1 cylinder area, I don't think it could be the steering reservoir, that is more on the other side of the engine center line.

Attached are a couple pics that might help solve your problem. The red rag is stuck in the steering pump tube where the reservoir will mount to. The first pic is before rebuild, the second is after rebuild.IMG_7734.JPG

IMG_7890.JPG

pjq, I've got a question for you....in the older img where you have the red oil rag, just below that you have that pool of oil there. Was it oil or the consistency of grease?

I've been slow getting back into my repair because of some arthritis that hit me out of left field after I helped do a community project.

In my case, that divot or near to it was full of what I thought was oil, but now appears to be like a thick grease. If it was oil or power steering fluid that had been there for awhile I suppose it would be possible that it would turn into a greasy pool given enough time and heat, but I'm sure you'd remember it you thought t was oil but found it to be almost a grease like consistency.

z

[pjq]

zodman I'm glad your finding these pic's helpful, your really dissecting them, haaa! thats what I had to do putting my engine back together, digital cameras are great.

The red rag is in the fill opening of the steering reservoir. Yes I can remember cleaning that area and yes I agree with your idea that it is old powersteering fluid. It's consistency was like cold molasses. Its possible the steering fluid reservoir overflow tube was routed there, I can't remember.

All that being said I paid closer attention when I put things back together and I purposely routed the tube alittle more towards the front and center. When I refilled the steering fluid (new pentosin) system I slightly overfilled the marks on the reservoir, I can now literally see the errors of my ways. Don't add any more steering fluid than the directions tell you.

From underneath the car or through the front inspection panel I see a slight green line running down the front of my nice silver clean engine. This relatively fresh overflow (1.5 month)is sticky and doesn't wipe off easily. It wouldn't be a tablespoon.

Old oil would wipe off easier than this stuff.

Pat.

Edited November 23, 2013 by pjq

[zodman]

zodman I'm glad your finding these pic's helpful, your really dissecting them, haaa! thats what I had to do putting my engine back together, digital cameras are great.

The red rag is in the fill opening of the steering reservoir. Yes I can remember cleaning that area and yes I agree with your idea that it is old powersteering fluid. It's consistency was like cold molasses. Its possible the steering fluid reservoir overflow tube was routed there, I can't remember.

All that being said I paid closer attention when I put things back together and I purposely routed the tube alittle more towards the front and center. When I refilled the steering fluid (new pentosin) system I slightly overfilled the marks on the reservoir, I can now literally see the errors of my ways. Don't add any more steering fluid than the directions tell you.

From underneath the car or through the front inspection panel I see a slight green line running down the front of my nice silver clean engine. This relatively fresh overflow (1.5 month)is sticky and doesn't wipe off easily. It wouldn't be a tablespoon.

Old oil would wipe off easier than this stuff.

Pat.

Yeppers...It had a green tint to it. When I first bought the car, I noticed it was low and I had overfilled it with that Febi S6161. One turkey baster later I thought I had gotten all the overfill. Perhaps not, as the overfill tube does point to the divot. Oh well...At least the mystery of this gave me a multi-fold blessing - including the accidental discovery of an unknown previous water pump failure.

[zodman]

Took me long enough....but the project is finally done, with a minimum of parts left orphaned :huh:

Had mild panic attack at first starts before I traced the error to spark plug cables not fully mated. Also had some minor lifter noise that went away once the oil was carefully brought to balance...They may need to be addressed in the near future.

Am now going on the first drive to give the computer time to relearn settings after the battery bit the dust after many years of unrelenting service....I even have the radio code at the ready.

But all of that aside...I want to give a big thanks to all who offered advice and information via this forum:

Loren

JFP in PA

kbrandsma

NewArt1

pjq

Ahasi

flyingpenquin

Luke @ Sunset

Now off to parts known and unknown :drive:

[Loren]

:thumbup: