Using Techron concentrate total system cleaner, anyone?

[ALEV8]

Just started adding the 20oz bottle to my tank. My CTT 04 has never had it in it's system. Did it once so far in an attempt to smooth out the jittery idle and the "car never starts on cold start first try" syndrome. I was thinking fuel filter/pump or starter, but a buddy I respect and who has too many Porsche and Ferraris, and Renntech sc'd Benzes recommended I try this first. His line of thinking is the dedicated cold start injector is dirty, hence the unsuccessful first attempt and hitting it on the 2d time.

How many times can I safely run Texhron concentrate 20oz bottles through?

Directions say every 3k mi.

Edited August 14, 2013 by ALEV8

[JFP in PA]

Running the Techron every 3-4K won't hurt anything, and will do a lot to clean up problems in the fuel system.

If you suspect a fuel pump delivery problem, hook up a fuel pressure test gauge to the test port on the rail and check your pressure and delivery rates. In particular, you want to watch for pressure bleed down after the engine is shut off, it should hold around 3 bar ten min. after being shut off. Your fuel filter is part of the tank flange, which also contains the valve that prevents bleed down:

[hahnmgh63]

Running a high quality name brand Premium gasoline should be all you need. But if you have been using discount gasoline (most local gas comes from the same refineries but the bigger name brands have better additive packages) then Techron might help. Porsche used to recommend Techron but now they just recommend Top Tier gasolines. If you use the concentrated Techron it is best to use it before and oil change as the Concentrated Techron can loosen a lot of Carbon which will dilute in the oil.

[JFP in PA]

Running a high quality name brand Premium gasoline should be all you need. But if you have been using discount gasoline (most local gas comes from the same refineries but the bigger name brands have better additive packages) then Techron might help. Porsche used to recommend Techron but now they just recommend Top Tier gasolines. If you use the concentrated Techron it is best to use it before and oil change as the Concentrated Techron can loosen a lot of Carbon which will dilute in the oil.

Running a high dose added in a single tank of fuel quite often cleans up a lot of little issues, and is a common practice at a lot of shops. That said, changing the oil after running out the tank is a good idea.

[White987S]

I use the Techron product every year prior to an oil change.

[mcmike27]

I use the Jectron product from LIQI MOLY that I get from our local NAPA store they have 2 products Fuel Injection Cleaner and Valve Clean. I use both twice a year before my oil changes. 108k miles and runs like a top. I also make sure to change the fuel filter when called for and we have Shell gas here in central Pa so thats what I run in our Boxster.

[ALEV8]

I run only the highest octane gas and just did an oil change. The jittery idle drives me crazy just like not starting on the first turn of the key. Brand new spark plugs , battery, coils, new engine torque bar/arm....last shot is a load of this Techron before I seek out a wise PTech and ask for some official help!

Edited August 15, 2013 by ALEV8

[clarksongli]

Best of luck....But i hate to be the Debby Downer....i would be shocked to see a bottle of techtron fix your issues. Not starting first shot suggests a larger issue. Idle quality....possibly.

But a fundemental question.....adding any techtron type stuff.....if you do the math, its roughly 150:1 mix ratio.....doesn't that seem unlikely that such a small dilute solution could break down such a hard compound like carbon ash?

I have soaked used valves in everything from seafoam to techtron for DAYS......and not even a single bit of carbon dislodged.

Not saying it doesn't work, but i'd like to see some of the science behind the product

[JFP in PA]

Best of luck....But i hate to be the Debby Downer....i would be shocked to see a bottle of techtron fix your issues. Not starting first shot suggests a larger issue. Idle quality....possibly.

But a fundemental question.....adding any techtron type stuff.....if you do the math, its roughly 150:1 mix ratio.....doesn't that seem unlikely that such a small dilute solution could break down such a hard compound like carbon ash?

I have soaked used valves in everything from seafoam to techtron for DAYS......and not even a single bit of carbon dislodged.

Not saying it doesn't work, but i'd like to see some of the science behind the product

How about some experience instead? For decades, Porsche has recommended running a dose of Techron in their cars for this exact purpose. We have used in in the shop since the day we opened our doors. Our standard "pre-hibernation" service recommendation's include running a full tank of Techron dosed fuel through the engine just before bringing the car in for its last service of the season in preparation for putting the car away for the winter, which includes an oil and filter change, pre winter battery and coolant system checks, and a full inspection of the car's systems. Afterwards, air up the tires, a full tank of fuel dosed with StaBil, a full cleaning of the car, hook it up to a battery maintainer, and put the dust cover over it until spring. Never had one start the next season with fuel system related issues in more than thirty years. I cannot make that statement about cars that were not dosed with Techron before storage.

We sometimes get a poor running car in the shop with no codes or other apparent issues. Sometimes we see them with codes indicating a possible of one or more leaking injectors; as a precursor to spending a lot of time and the customer's cash, we have them invest $15-20 in a bottle of Techron and run the car for a couple days. More often than not, the problem disappears. We have had the opportunity to bore scope cars before and after using Techron, you would be amazed at the difference in the combustion chambers and the tops of the pistons, which is why you should always change your oil after using it.

Techron is not a "miracle in a bottle", but it does live up to its claims.

[White987S]

How about some experience instead? For decades, Porsche has recommended running a dose of Techron in their cars for this exact purpose. We have used in in the shop since the day we opened our doors. Our standard "pre-hibernation" service recommendation's include running a full tank of Techron dosed fuel through the engine just before bringing the car in for its last service of the season in preparation for putting the car away for the winter, which includes an oil and filter change, pre winter battery and coolant system checks, and a full inspection of the car's systems. Afterwards, air up the tires, a full tank of fuel dosed with StaBil, a full cleaning of the car, hook it up to a battery maintainer, and put the dust cover over it until spring. Never had one start the next season with fuel system related issues in more than thirty years. I cannot make that statement about cars that were not dosed with Techron before storage.

We sometimes get a poor running car in the shop with no codes or other apparent issues. Sometimes we see them with codes indicating a possible of one or more leaking injectors; as a precursor to spending a lot of time and the customer's cash, we have them invest $15-20 in a bottle of Techron and run the car for a couple days. More often than not, the problem disappears. We have had the opportunity to bore scope cars before and after using Techron, you would be amazed at the difference in the combustion chambers and the tops of the pistons, which is why you should always change your oil after using it.

Techron is not a "miracle in a bottle", but it does live up to its claims.

GREAT POST! Thanks, JFP.

I've done it this way for the past 7 years with the 987S. Rock solid.

Edited August 20, 2013 by White987S

[clarksongli]

Thanks for the feedback. I don't disagree there must be some cleaning properties within any of these bottles. Perhaps its the atomization ports being cleaned not the actual carbon ash.

you can wipe the domes clean with just a rag, and there isn't really a performance gain with clean domes. Valves also become covered, however it's typically he undercut, not the seats.

I could see a better spray pattern clearing issues up.

[JFP in PA]

Thanks for the feedback. I don't disagree there must be some cleaning properties within any of these bottles. Perhaps its the atomization ports being cleaned not the actual carbon ash.

you can wipe the domes clean with just a rag, and there isn't really a performance gain with clean domes. Valves also become covered, however it's typically he undercut, not the seats.

I could see a better spray pattern clearing issues up.

It does not take much to aggravate these injector systems, just a little build up of varnish or crud is enough to make the car respond. The newer DFI cars are even worse as the injector is in the combustion chamber.

Interestingly, cleaning the piston domes tends to actually take performance away. A layer of carbon ash on the piston dome acts as an insulator, helping to hold heat in the combustion chamber longer, yielding better output. This is the basis of technology used by firms like Diamond or Swain who ceramic coat piston domes and cylinder head combustion chambers on race engines.

[White987S]

The newer DFI cars are even worse as the injector is in the combustion chamber.

Jeff, what do you recommend then, as a regiment, for the DFI Porsche engines? Thanks.

[JFP in PA]

The newer DFI cars are even worse as the injector is in the combustion chamber.

Jeff, what do you recommend then, as a regiment, for the DFI Porsche engines? Thanks.

You need to run a good quality fuel, and dose the car with Techron before every oil change. It is also a good idea to get the system "power flushed" with a pressurized cleaning system on a regular basis, and probably at least once a year.

DFI engines are a major improvement in both technology and performance, but as usual there is no free lunch............

[ALEV8]

So I changed the oil just BEFORE my Techron regimen. Days before. So now I gotta start completely over? Ugh. Jeff can you give me some advice on the cold start issue? Loren? I'm worried about get stranded on the highway and that ain't fun down here in Texas when it's 105 and feels like 115! My indy took readings of the fuel pressure and it was fine after shutoff. We didn't wait ten minutes though.

Edited August 20, 2013 by ALEV8

[JFP in PA]

So I changed the oil just BEFORE my Techron regimen. Days before. So now I gotta start completely over? Ugh. Jeff can you give me some advice on the cold start issue? Loren? I'm worried about get stranded on the highway and that ain't fun down here in Texas when it's 105 and feels like 115! My indy took readings of the fuel pressure and it was fine after shutoff. We didn't wait ten minutes though.

Have him re check it at 15 min. and 30 min.; if you see drop off, you have a bleed down somewhere in the system, often at the fuel tank flange area, which houses the valve that is supposed to prevent bleed down.

[White987S]

So I changed the oil just BEFORE my Techron regimen. Days before. So now I gotta start completely over? Ugh.

No. Just do it "right" the next time. Don't fret about it. Most people do it "wrong".

[White987S]

It is also a good idea to get the system "power flushed" with a pressurized cleaning system on a regular basis, and probably at least once a year.

DFI engines are a major improvement in both technology and performance, but as usual there is no free lunch............

Jeff, how should this cost? Indy cost?? Dealership charges??? Thanks.

[JFP in PA]

A dealer would be in the $150-200 range, and Indy about $120.

[ALEV8]

That's the next move. Seemed really easy if one had the gauges. Just screw on there at the rail...check at 5-10 min intervals!

[RFM]

To deal with excessive pollution on the intake valves on DI engines some manufacturers, as Audi on their 3 generation TFSI engine, use a "dual injection system" high pressure (directly in the cylinder) and low pressure (in the intake manifold) what sould lead to a better result. For a better overview, see chapter 8, section 2.2 of annex http://www.aachener-kolloquium.de/pdf/vortr_nachger/2011/a1.1_wurms_audi.pdf.

[JFP in PA]

That's the next move. Seemed really easy if one had the gauges. Just screw on there at the rail...check at 5-10 min intervals!

You can get one from Actron for about $50 or so.

[deilenberger]

That's the next move. Seemed really easy if one had the gauges. Just screw on there at the rail...check at 5-10 min intervals!

Harbor Freight sells a quite competent fuel-pressure kit for around $35. The investment is only one time, and the kit can be used many times. It will be WAY less then having a mechanic do the test.

[1schoir]

...

"Afterwards, air up the tires, a full tank of fuel dosed with StaBil, a full cleaning of the car, hook it up to a battery maintainer, and put the dust cover over it until spring"...

JFP:

Thanks for the info on "winterizing" the car for storage. I'm assuming that the StaBil is a different type of StaBil fuel stabilizer than the one that was used "in the old days", before ethanol.

I have tried StarTron by StarBrite recently but I'm not sure if that the best product out there for avoiding ethanol-related problems when gasoline is being stored or unused for a prolonged (6-9 months) period of time.

Regards, Maurice.

[JFP in PA]

...

"Afterwards, air up the tires, a full tank of fuel dosed with StaBil, a full cleaning of the car, hook it up to a battery maintainer, and put the dust cover over it until spring"...

JFP:

Thanks for the info on "winterizing" the car for storage. I'm assuming that the StaBil is a different type of StaBil fuel stabilizer than the one that was used "in the old days", before ethanol.

I have tried StarTron by StarBrite recently but I'm not sure if that the best product out there for avoiding ethanol-related problems when gasoline is being stored or unused for a prolonged (6-9 months) period of time.

Regards, Maurice.

StaBil has come up with a couple solutions, the well known red product will do an excellent job of preventing fuel from deteriorating during storage, including those that carry up to 10% ethanol in most environments. They recently added the term "Storage" to the label of this product. This is the product we have used very successfully for many years with customer's cars in storage. If you are in a particularly moist area (seaside, etc.), have higher ethanol contents, or for use in marine applications, they now have a blue-green product (labeled "Marine") specifically to address the higher water and corrosion risk while in storage. While this product was designed for more troublesome environments, it can be used for storage in less aggressive conditions as well. They now also have a specific product for diesel applications as well.

For most people, particularly if they store their cars in a controlled environment (read heated garage) will do just fine with their familiar red product.