Is there a way to detect engine damage and need for rebuild

[dgjks6]

Sorry if I am beating a dead horse, but I still have a few questions

So to summarize my issue so far

99 996 c4 Cab with 38,000 miles

Ran perfect. Went to get IMS done. IMS was on its way out. Bearing was intact, but metal shavings everywhere. Just flushed the motor again last night (for the 3rd time after IMS change) and still getting metal flakes in the filter and on the magnet drain plug. Not much, but still noticeable.

Cost for a new rebuild (with my good core) is between $8500 and $18000.

I decided I was going to flush and drive it until it dies but now having second thoughts. I can't in good conscience even think about selling the car.

The concern from the shop is all those metal flakes will cause premature wear of the engine. Car runs perfectly now (still)

Now the big question.

How do I tell? Is there a way to look for engine wear without taking it apart? Some kind of camera? A test? What specifically is going to wear?

[txhokie4life]

If the IMS bearing was giving out and the IMS was wobbling -- it can damage the far end near the oil pump -- you really can't do anything to inspect

that short of tearing it down.

If the debris is coming from your rod bearings -- there isn't a way to inspect without tear down.

If the debris is coming from chains -- then you might be able to inspect with a boroscope. Fixing will likely be a tear down.

One can argue if you can source an engine without having to pay a core charge -- then drive this one till it breaks -- then buy a new to you engine.

You are right tho -- you cannot sell it as "healthy" until you can prove over multiple oil changes -- there is no metal (which looking at your IMS/drain plug)

is not likely to happen.

You're not going to be any worse off.

If you don't care about damaging this engine further -- you can run it for a few hundred miles and then check the oil plug and filter.

Heck you could source yourself an engine -- prepare it and then swap it out.

Then tear this one down, rebuild it, and recoup some of your costs.

nothing is pretty I fear -- but you have options.

Mike

Edited July 25, 2013 by txhokie4life

[JFP in PA]

Sorry if I am beating a dead horse, but I still have a few questions

So to summarize my issue so far

99 996 c4 Cab with 38,000 miles

Ran perfect. Went to get IMS done. IMS was on its way out. Bearing was intact, but metal shavings everywhere. Just flushed the motor again last night (for the 3rd time after IMS change) and still getting metal flakes in the filter and on the magnet drain plug. Not much, but still noticeable.

Cost for a new rebuild (with my good core) is between $8500 and $18000.

I decided I was going to flush and drive it until it dies but now having second thoughts. I can't in good conscience even think about selling the car.

The concern from the shop is all those metal flakes will cause premature wear of the engine. Car runs perfectly now (still)

Now the big question.

How do I tell? Is there a way to look for engine wear without taking it apart? Some kind of camera? A test? What specifically is going to wear?

As I said in an earlier post, flushing the engine is not going to get all the metal out; we have seen several people try this, and it has never worked. From the photos you posted, you have a major problem based upon the amount and type of metal debris in your engine. The metal is coming from someplace, and there are several possible things that can be causing this, but they are all speculation until the engine is out and apart so that the exact problem(s) can be seen. You cannot take short cuts like a bore scope, because it simply cannot reach and see everything. Because of the design of these engine's, even if you pull the sump cover, you still can't see the critical rotating assembly items like the crank or rods.

You need to shut the car off, park it, and do some serious decision making. Your current engine is most likely gone, but at this juncture, you still have a viable core engine; however if you keep messing with it and it finally lets go catastrophically, you will have valueless a boat anchor. It only takes one bit of metal grit to sufficiently tear up a bearing shell and it will all be over in a heart beat, and that would be the one bit of metal you could not flush out.

[jjb7]

Agreed, take engine apart, steam clean all major components, inspect cylinger walls for scoring, inspect oil pump for damage, flush oil lines and heat exchanger. Depending upon damage will determine your next step. Best case: perform a minor rebuild to replace all bearings and piston rings,and have the cylinders hones.

After re-assembly, use a oil drain plug with a magnet in it.

[JFP in PA]

Agreed, take engine apart, steam clean all major components, inspect cylinger walls for scoring, inspect oil pump for damage, flush oil lines and heat exchanger. Depending upon damage will determine your next step. Best case: perform a minor rebuild to replace all bearings and piston rings,and have the cylinders hones.

After re-assembly, use a oil drain plug with a magnet in it.

Actually, the major components should be cleaned in an ultrasonic tank due to the number of small passages and places for grit to hide.

[dgjks6]

Actually I took the cheap way out. Just changed the oil after 1000 miles. Small amount of debris on magnetic plug and non in filter. Car is running perfect. Got out the exact 9 quarts of oil I put in. Oil was still clear.

So I am just going to drive and enjoy for now.

[EleCTriCT]

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