2005 997 C2 80k miles

[d0lph1n]

About me:

- Never had a Porsche before

- I was in a market for a 996

- I'm intending to use my first Porsche as a daily driver but I work from home

- Don't have a garage just a car port.

- Don't have tons of money

About the car:

- 2005 997 C2

- manufactured in 2004.

- Tiptronic

- sport seats, bi-xenon, sport steering wheel

- Over 80k miles

- Clean carfax (1 owner)

The First PPI inspection results:

- exterior: 3 out of 5 (repainted quarter panels, hood and bumper but no accident/ frame damage; also paint damage in multiple areas from bird residue - can't be buffed out)

- interior: 4 of of 5 (minor interior issues like back window carpet discoloration etc)

- engine: perfect, no leaks etc.

- transmission: multiple error codes (C202, C141, 8001, 8003) prevented further investigation. The mechanic is saying, it might be a minor issue (new battery install) or else... Also, the Sport Button doesn't work - issue, probably, related to the same error codes. The owner is saying, he will get them fixed at a Porsche dealer. Aparently he wasn't aware of the sport button issue !!??

- no metal in the oil filter

- good brakes 50%(front) & 100% (back)

- good tires

- new water pump

other issues:

- the right tiptronic button is not working properly.Owner will have it replaced

- minor misalignment ($250 to fix)

- the windows will not dip properly when interior door handles are used (possible microswitch issue)

- the car spent a lot of days in the sun.

Q: $34k, to buy or not to buy?

Edited July 9, 2013 by d0lph1n

[GOLENJEEPTJ]

First off what is the asking price?

[d0lph1n]

34k

Edited July 9, 2013 by d0lph1n

[Mijostyn]

I'd pass. It was not a car that was taken good care of. There is no excuse for a Porsche to require repainting at 80K miles. There is no aftermarket paint that is going to be as durable as the factory job. Carpet fading means the car was parked for prolonged periods in the sun. Plus all the other stuff which taken individually are minor but together they add up to a car that was not loved.

You have to know that maintaining these cars is expensive. Even the routine stuff. Just check the price of 9 quarts of Mobile 1 0W 40.

Also, if you buy a car less than 8 years old with less than 100K miles you can have the car certified and get a two year warranty which with these cars is huge piece of mind. At one year if the car is doing well have the oil analyzed by Polaris. If the oil is clean and you love the car keep it. If not then you can sell it with the remaining warranty for almost what you paid for it.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Mijostyn

[d0lph1n]

Thanks for your input. I tend to agree with you, there is no doubt the car wasn't loved...but the price is not bad. I've been looking for months for a decent car for a reasonable price. I thought only a car owned by the dealership can be certified. What's the procedure?

I'm aware of oil prices. I just did my own oil/filter change in my Acura with Amsoil Signature.

I'd pass. It was not a car that was taken good care of. There is no excuse for a Porsche to require repainting at 80K miles. There is no aftermarket paint that is going to be as durable as the factory job. Carpet fading means the car was parked for prolonged periods in the sun. Plus all the other stuff which taken individually are minor but together they add up to a car that was not loved.

You have to know that maintaining these cars is expensive. Even the routine stuff. Just check the price of 9 quarts of Mobile 1 0W 40.

Also, if you buy a car less than 8 years old with less than 100K miles you can have the car certified and get a two year warranty which with these cars is huge piece of mind. At one year if the car is doing well have the oil analyzed by Polaris. If the oil is clean and you love the car keep it. If not then you can sell it with the remaining warranty for almost what you paid 3 it.

Edited July 9, 2013 by d0lph1n

[Mijostyn]

My car was on consignment and I had it certified. It is sort of like buying an extended warranty with the security of having a Porsche tech sign off on the car. They will also correct any deficiencies at your expense. Porsche's rules are the car has to be less than 8 years old, have less than 100k miles, and must never have been tracked. I am not 100% sure but I think you can present any such car to a dealership for certification. It could only be good for business. I would check with your local Porsche dealer and ask how they deal with this issue.

Also, it never hurts to window shop at the dealers. Look at the colors, interiors and options and get an idea what lights your fire. These cars are an acquired taste. Once you are hooked there is no substitute.

[binger]

I agree with Mijostyn, I would pass! The car sound like a problem waiting to happen. Whenever you look at the paint and interior should be almost flawless. They are out there you just have to keep on the lookout. I can tell you this about Porsche, If you take care of it they will last forever. The first Porsche I owned was 85 911 Carrera for 23years it was my daily driver and I tracked it on the weekends. I loved that car but stupid me my cell phone rang and I looked down for a split second that was it, I totaled it. I can tell you if I did not make that mistake I would still own that car. Now I have a 97 993 C2S that’s my daily driver. Have had it since 2008 put 41000 miles on it without any issues just normal maintenance. Be patient and picky it will pay off in the long run.

[d0lph1n]

Thank you guys. Should I become a temp PCA member? Few years ago, when I had another attempt to buy a Porsche, the PCA club was offering a temp registration for non-porsche owners. Any other places where I might find decent 997s?

Edited July 10, 2013 by d0lph1n

[binger]

Its always good to support the PCA & POC you don't need a Porsche to become a full member. As for car shopping I would look at several websites

http://autotrader.com

http://sloancars.com/inventory/?model=997

http://flatsixes.com/porsches-for-sale/

http://willhoitenterprises.com/inventory.htm

http://ebay.com/sch/Cars-Trucks-/6001/i.html?_vxp=mtr&_nkw=997+porsche+car

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-Porsche-997-Carrera-S-Silver-over-Black-Great-Equipment-355-Horsepower-/190864567201?ViewItem=&item=190864567201&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466&forcev4exp=true This is Willhoit ent. I gave you a link above of his other cars. He always has nice cars. You will pay top dollar but you will get cherry car with low mileage.

http://www.truspeedmotorcars.com/

Hope this helps good luck shopping!

Edited July 10, 2013 by binger

[d0lph1n]

I'll keep an eye on all those sites. Thank you

[d0lph1n]

Thanks for all your advices.

I tried to find a better car but that's all i can afford so I ended up purchasing the car. The dealer fixed the problems at a Porsche dealer (replaced a module and installed a brand new Tiptronic button) and gave me a good price. I also got a spectacular low apr from my bank.

I also stopped by the Porsche dealer where the previous owner did all the maintenance and they were kind enough to print all the service records (including the last one they performed for the dealer who sold me the car). That's how I found out the 80k miles maintenance was already done.

I've been very happy with the car, best car I've owned. In manual mode with sport mode on it drives beautifully. I have no regrets buying a 911 tiptronic. I know it's an old style tiptronic but it's more than enough for me. I don't even want to know how the new GT3 PDK works ;)

So far I did the followings:

- replaced the orange side markers with OEM clear ones

- diy a rear spoiler assembly rebuild. It was making a rattling noise when closing

- wheel alignment

- put 2500 miles on the car with several trips by Ortega hwy and a 6-day trip to SF via CA33 and on the way back via Pacific Coast

- hard wired the V1 detector

- fixed the ash tray cover ( now it closes smoothly)

- did the orange cap mode but I used a black rubber leg tip from ace hardware instead.

If you have any suggestions, please let me know. I'm planning to do the followings:

- diy oil/filter change. I purchased the Amsoil European Car Formula 5w-40 and the NAPA gold filter and a new shim. If you have suggestions, now would be the appropriate time ;).

- replace air filter. For now I'll use the oem paper filter but I'll probably switch to a BMC filter in the near future.

- fix the center console rattling on not so good roads and/or over 4-5k rpm.

- not 100% happy with the way the doors close. I've been looking for a door adjustment guide. Please let me know if you know how to do it.

- enable side markers to blink and the chrono dial to light up in stand-by. I'm looking to borrow or pay to rent a Durametric tool for a couple of hours. Please let me know if you know somebody...

Once again, I appreciate your help.

Few photos from CA33:

Edited August 9, 2013 by d0lph1n

[Mijostyn]

Don't forget the cabin air filter. It is on the passenger side next to the battery. Make sure your brakes are ok. You should always know where your pads are.

The more you get on it, the faster you will rip up your rear tires. Most of us get around 10K on the rears. Ranges from 6K to 12K depending entirely on your right foot. You better budget for a set of tires a year. I just put Michelin Pilot Super Sports on mine. They are less expensive than the N0, N1 tires, handle just as well and have a tread wear rating of 300 vs 220 for the others. It rained here yesterday and on one of my favorite roads the car did a perfectly controlled 4 wheel slide.

Save up and get rid of the PCM. You can use a NAV-TV MOST Head Unit Replacement module to hookup any double DIN aftermarket NAV unit. I like Alpine. This way you get to keep your stock speakers and amps. There is a Double DIN mounting kit that has the factory finish bezel. You get state of the art NAV, great sound, perfect iPod integration and Blue tooth. All 911s rattle. The best way to deal with that is TURN UP THE MUSiC. Rock and Roll!!!

[d0lph1n]

Don't forget the cabin air filter. It is on the passenger side next to the battery. Make sure your brakes are ok. You should always know where your pads are.The more you get on it, the faster you will rip up your rear tires. Most of us get around 10K on the rears. Ranges from 6K to 12K depending entirely on your right foot. You better budget for a set of tires a year. I just put Michelin Pilot Super Sports on mine. They are less expensive than the N0, N1 tires, handle just as well and have a tread wear rating of 300 vs 220 for the others. It rained here yesterday and on one of my favorite roads the car did a perfectly controlled 4 wheel slide.Save up and get rid of the PCM. You can use a NAV-TV MOST Head Unit Replacement module to hookup any double DIN aftermarket NAV unit. I like Alpine. This way you get to keep your stock speakers and amps. There is a Double DIN mounting kit that has the factory finish bezel. You get state of the art NAV, great sound, perfect iPod integration and Blue tooth. All 911s rattle. The best way to deal with that is TURN UP THE MUSiC. Rock and Roll!!!

Thanks for your suggestions especially the cabin filer. I ordered the Mann-Filter CUK 3360 active carbon from Amazon.

The brake pads are fine. At the PPI inspection the pads were 50% and 100% back.

I was planning to switch the tires from Continental to Michelin PSS as well.

I'm not a fan of messing with the the stock receiver or pcm. It's more than fine for me. I don't use it anyway.

RE: rattling, I was able to fix it. The curved flat black plastic guide that moves along with the tiptronic lever, was vibrating like crazy. Very annoying. I took it off and sprayed its back with plastidip. I also sprayed the metallic brackets. What a difference. The car's interior is dead quiet now at any rpm.

The tiptronic button was kind of loose too. The issue was caused by a damaged spring; an easy fix.

The doors don't close smoothly but they are aligned perfectly. Is there any sort of guide of how to adjust it?

Edited August 12, 2013 by d0lph1n

[Mijostyn]

The problem with the doors is that the windows retract to open and close. This way they can get a good seal around the windows edge. This causes two problems. 1st is the rise in air pressure inside the cabin use to cushion the door as it closed. Just open and close the door on any of the air cooled cars. Perfect click. Next is that there is no good way to support the window without the frame of the older car so, it sort of flaps around, shuddering. If the door closes and locks and the window engages it's seal correctly then there is nothing left to do that I know of.

Let me know when you are tired of chasing the rattles. My favorite isn't even really a rattle. It is the squeak of the leather seat bolster rubbing up against the center console. Not enough clearance or.. They could have carpeted the center console. You have to love those Germans. I'll take Jimi Hendrix any day.

The PCM in my car electrocuted it to the tune of $9000. No kidding. Fortunately warranty. Way glad to be rid of it. IMHO all 911 jockeys should be music lovers. Nothing like the song of a flat 6 at full chat. Rock and Roll.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Mijostyn

[d0lph1n]

Sorry to hear about the PCM damage.

For me, the central console was my biggest rattle issue bcz it was rattling almost at every rpm, I couldn't hear the engine, a very high pitch rattling, super annoying. Now no more rattles at any rpm but I can hear smaller ones driving on rough roads but they don't bother me at all ....for now ;)

It looks like the windows retract to open and close but especially the right door, when I open it, the entire door drops a little or at least if feels like it drops few mm. My 7 year daughter enters and exists trough that door., I was trying to make it as smoothly a possible for her too. Bcz she is little, sometimes she can't close the door properly. It's like a workout for her. Maybe there is a fix for it but of course, we can live with it, no big deal.

Edited August 13, 2013 by d0lph1n

[Mijostyn]

Huston we have a problem. The door should not drop a millimeter. If you are brave. Open the door wide. Next support the bottom of the door with a wood block on your floor jack. Bring the floor jack up just so it ever so slightly raises the door. DO NOT GET IN THE CAR WHEN YOUR DOOR IS ON THE JACK!!!. Next loosen the torx bolt that bolts the upper hinge to the door. Then tighten the hinge joint bolt to 9.5 ftlb. Retighten the hinge to door torx bolt to 17 ftlb. Repeat the procedure on the bottom hinge. Release the jack and see if this fixes the drop. If not then the hinges are shot. You may be able to just replace the hinge pins and bolts. Loren??

If the door does not align properly you could try to align it by alternately loosening the hinge to door bolts with the door supported and giving the door a tweak. But, it will be a trial and error process. It helps if you remove the striker pin to do this. The striker is also adjustable side to side and up and down, again a trial and error process. The door should be flush with the other body panels with an even reveal all around. Then fine tune the striker.

You could always take it to a body shop with Porsche experience if you can't get it right.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Mijostyn

[Mijostyn]

Thinking about it, there is one other possibility. Some one may have set the striker too high. Check the gap at the bottom of the door. If it is larger at the back than the front lower the striker just a tad and see how the door closes. Remember the stiker can also move in and out when you loosen the two Torx bolts. The door should be flush with the rear fender. it helps if you mark the strikers original position with a soft pencil or marker. Make sure the window seals correctly at the top after the adjustment. If you look at the geometry of the hinges there is no way to correct door sag without using shims between the door And the lower hinge. The only way for sag to develop is either hinge wear or bent sheet metal. (The door hinges could have been incorrectly welded to the car but somehow I doubt it. That is one thing the Germans are great at ...tolerances)

Edited August 14, 2013 by Mijostyn

[d0lph1n]

Yesterday I tried to follow your instructions but I don't have the proper torx and torque key.

Since I've never had a Porsche before, I paid very close attention to each door. The doors are perfectly aligned. The movement that i detected is nothing more than the window lowering and closing combined with a harshness in the door's strike / latch. Since I didn't know what else to do, I oiled the latch as much as I could. Now the harshness is not as bad as before.

i'll follow your striker adjustment info if necessary. Mijostyn, I appreciate it and thank you.

Edited August 16, 2013 by d0lph1n

[Mijostyn]

If the door aligns perfectly and there is no sag than the striker may be a tad off. I was washing my car yesterday and noticed that the bolts holding the striker in place are not Torx but use some other splined drive. I hate it when the German's do this ----. It is probably their way of saying "nicht playin sie mit der striker" Make sure you clean all the excess oil off the door latch and striker or it will attract a lot of dirt and mess things up. Enjoy the car!

Edited August 17, 2013 by Mijostyn

[d0lph1n]

It looks like the oil messed up the micro switch, the window goes down when I touch the outside handle and immediately goes up again. On the flip side, I wanted to take the door's trim off anyway or is there an easy fix for this?

Edited August 20, 2013 by d0lph1n

[Mijostyn]

Uh Oh. There are three microswitches that control the window. One in the outside door handle. Another in the inside handle. The third I'm pretty sure is in the door lock mechanism which is the one you nailed. It tells the computer that the door is open so, please keep the window cracked. The computer now thinks the door is closed so the window won't stay cracked. The two door handle switches tell the computer to crack the widow as the door is being opened. They still work. For the time being just keep a little pressure, just enough to crack the window on the door handles when you close the door. This will make the window engage its gasket properly. Getting to the lock means taking the door's inside trim panel and door carrier off. Replacing the microswitch means replacing the entire motorized lock assembly which after removing all the trim is simple. If it were my problem I would disconnect the battery, pray and blow some brake cleaner into the lock which will dissolve the oil and send it to the bottom of the door. The only thing in the line of fire is the door open marker light and it is on the other side of the door carrier out of the way. If you have some compressed air blow the lock out to dry if off. If this does not work you have to replace the lock assembly anyway. If it works you can laugh and have a beer.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Mijostyn

[Mijostyn]

It should also go down when you touch the inside handle. The easy fix is trying to clean out the mechanism with brake cleaner. These microswitches are delicate, like the home button on an iPad. You probably gummed it up so it can't move. The contacts are most probably sealed and OK. You might have better access with the door lock out but getting it out is a lot of work.

[d0lph1n]

Thank you very much for all your help.

Let me try to describe the door's behavior:

- with the door open when I pull and release the outside/inside handle the window goes down and up immediately. After that, If I want to close the door after I touched the outside handle (window up), I have to bring the door as close to the car as possible without closing it. The moment the latch touches the striker the window goes down and stays there and now I can close the door. If I push the latch's mechanism with my finger, the window goes down and stays there.

- when I open the door from inside..everything is fine..and window goes down and I can close the door without any issue.

It's like the car doesn't know the door is open after touching the outside handle.

Edited August 21, 2013 by d0lph1n

[Mijostyn]

Very interesting behavior. The computer is miss interpreting the door's condition. Let me get this straight. The door is closed and you are in the car. You pull on the inside latch the window cracks, you pull harder, the door opens and the window stays down until you shut the door then it returns to the closed position. Now you are outside and the door is closed. You pull on the latch and the window cracks, you pull harder and the door opens. You let go of the latch and the window goes up in error. The window is now in an error position. It should never be up with the door open. The only reason that the computer would raise the window is because it thinks the door is closed. What is interesting is that when you open the door from the inside the computer knows that the door is open. When you ground out the door lock by touching it to the striker the window goes down. The microswitches in both the indoor and outdoor latches are OK. But, the switch in the lock is not grounding out when you open the door from the outside but does ground out when you open the door from the inside which makes no sense. You have to love those Germans. You have three choices. Live with it as it is, replace the lock, try the brake cleaner and if that fails or f's it up worse replace the lock.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Mijostyn

[d0lph1n]

I've just came back from the car:

"The door is closed and you are in the car. You pull on the inside latch the window cracks, you pull harder, the door opens and the window stays down until you shut the door then it returns to the closed position."

Correct. I did it 10 times. 0% errors.

"Now you are outside and the door is closed. You pull on the latch and the window cracks, you pull harder and the door opens. You let go of the latch and the window goes up in error. The window is now in an error position."

Correct. 7 out of 10 times the window remained in an error position. 70% errors

It gets more interesting. If I pull the outside handle from the left side...not a single error. I pull it from the right side 100% errors.