A/C Flap Actuator

[ciaka]

You dont need to put servos into service position.  When you buy them, theyre in position ready to install, but you have to make sure each servo is attached to the arm properly, as you install.  

[Heidi993]

13 minutes ago, Rod Croskery said:

The online manuals show the layout of the servos in chapter HVAC.pdf, from about page 35 on.  These diagrams provide adequate information on positioning of the servos for re-installation.  It doesn't matter where they are for removal.  You can adjust the arms on your bench with a small 12v power source and a couple of leads.  Contacts 1 and 2 can be teased to operate the servo motor.  Reverse the contacts to reverse the motor until you have each in the position it's shown in the diagram.  Then positioning of the servos becomes the least of your problems.

 

Don't start the job without a set of long torqx screwdrivers and a tiny ratchet with assorted torqx bits.

 

My experience in replacing the servos on a 2004 CS with left hand drive may not translate directly to a car with right hand drive, but I wrote about it at 

https://rodcroskery.wordpress.com/category/2004-porsche-cayenne-review (reverse chronological order September 18, 2016) and  posted comments on page one of this discussion.

 

 

Thank you Rod for your reply, 
It's good news the servos can be set with a battery without buying a diagnostic tool ?

Is this manual workable (or even the one you used)?
https://workshop-manuals.com/porsche/cayenne_(9pa)/v6-3.2l/heating_and_air_conditioning/air_door_hvac/air_door_actuator/motor_hvac/component_information/service_and_repair/removing_and_installing_servo_motors/
 

I just read your blog post - twice!
Are all the servos on one side?
It seems to say you removed the drivers side under the dash, foolishly as you say - from which i guess it was unnecessary? 
I have a feeling though all the issues are on the drivers side (right hand side),
but from your post you managed to access all the 'ac boxes' on the passenger (right side) sides from underneath to fix the driver side issue?
Fingers crossed the RHD versions have the servos on the passenger (LHS) side!!
Can I ask was that all without removing the battery?

Heidi
 

[Rod Croskery]

The online manuals show the layout of the servos in chapter HVAC.pdf, from about page 35 on.  These diagrams provide adequate information on positioning of the servos for re-installation.  It doesn't matter where they are for removal.  You can adjust the arms on your bench with a small 12v power source and a couple of leads.  Contacts 1 and 2 can be teased to operate the servo motor.  Reverse the contacts to reverse the motor until you have each in the position it's shown in the diagram.  Then positioning of the servos becomes the least of your problems.

 

Don't start the job without a set of long torqx screwdrivers and a tiny ratchet with assorted torqx bits.

 

My experience in replacing the servos on a 2004 CS with left hand drive may not translate directly to a car with right hand drive, but I wrote about it at 

https://rodcroskery.wordpress.com/category/2004-porsche-cayenne-review (reverse chronological order September 18, 2016) and  posted comments on page one of this discussion.

 

I'm pretty sure you don't need any electronic equipment besides a multi-meter to change the servos from below.  It's a gruelling job, though.

 

[Rod Croskery]

7 minutes ago, Heidi993 said:

 

Thank you Rod for your reply, 
It's good news the servos can be set with a battery without buying a diagnostic tool ?

Is this manual workable (or even the one you used)?
https://workshop-manuals.com/porsche/cayenne_(9pa)/v6-3.2l/heating_and_air_conditioning/air_door_hvac/air_door_actuator/motor_hvac/component_information/service_and_repair/removing_and_installing_servo_motors/
 

I just read your blog post - twice!
Are all the servos on one side?
It seems to say you removed the drivers side under the dash, foolishly as you say - from which i guess it was unnecessary? 
I have a feeling though all the issues are on the drivers side (right hand side),
but from your post you managed to access all the 'ac boxes' on the passenger (right side) sides from underneath to fix the driver side issue?
Fingers crossed the RHD versions have the servos on the passenger (LHS) side!!
Can I ask was that all without removing the battery?

Heidi
 

 

Heidi:

 

I found the manual above to be unreadable.  Online -- on eBay, I believe, I paid a guy in India about $15.00 for an electronic copy of a Porsche Cayenne service manual.  It took a long time and a couple of demanded refunds before he eventually came through with quite a usable manual, though entirely in PDF.  

 

Servos are on both sides. 

 

There were two on the right side, behind the glove box.  They were pretty easy.  There's one (on a left-hand drive) which is a sitting duck, right out in the open.  I think it controls a flap.  On mine there is another on a plate up in the bowels of the AC system.  That's where I discovered the need for the long torx screwdrivers.  One screw was a safety screw, even.  That's a torx with a pin in the centre, accessible only to the bearer of a screwdriver with a centre hole drilled to go over the screw.  I suspect it was inserted by an earlier desperate mechanic, because he had jammed it into vinyl, rather than the metal clip which is supposed to go over the vinyl.  I found the clip below.  

 

BTW:  a tiny light on the end of a long, flexible cable is essential for this job.

 

After the right side I discovered further clicking on the left, so I spent the next couple of days jammed into the driver's floor.  The left side was way more difficult than the right.  

 

I never bothered to disconnect the batteries.  Ruby has two.

 

Rod

[bekks]

Heidi,

I believe you are having problems with your mixing servo. If you can get air to blow at all your vents, but it's just the temperature won't change, then it is your mixing one. On a LHD, this is the second from the bottom on the left side and can be replaced from underneath, although it's not fun.

[Heidi993]

53 minutes ago, bekks said:

Heidi,

I believe you are having problems with your mixing servo. If you can get air to blow at all your vents, but it's just the temperature won't change, then it is your mixing one. On a LHD, this is the second from the bottom on the left side and can be replaced from underneath, although it's not fun.

 

Thanks Bekks,
Air blows out of all of the vents, the problem is on the drivers side (the right side) the air is cold.
This means not only does it not demist the windscreen on my half (the right side), but it blows cold air on my feet.
The worst part is it blowing cold onto my feet - I love the car, but I can't bear the thought of wet cold days with this happening - I only just survived last winter!!

Is there any way to identify the location of the mixing servo on a RHD?
By the sounds of it, if everything is arranged the same, then it would be second from the bottom on the passenger side, but if it is mirrored, then its going to be on the drivers side.

[bekks]

I would dive into it a bit and you should be able to get an idea. Take the bottom kick panels off both sides and take a look underneath with a flashlight. 

I'd leave the battery connected and once you have the servo out, you can plug in the wiring again and adjust the temperature, then see if the arm will move.

Also, I did not need to do any adjustments to put them in service position. Just pulled it out and then moved the flap with my finger so it was in the same position as the new arm I was installing.

[Heidi993]

Hopefully this works ok - please can someone let me know if you can see these?

 

Video #1
Stripped out the left hand side - the passenger side, and can see three motors.
This is the first one, low down and by far the easiest to get to.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Rr9hYFqXKDatwKoz6
It seems to be operating correctly, and kicks in when the air recirculation/fresh air button is pressed.
On the video it was switched on, then off.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Heidi993

[Heidi993]

Video #2

This is the second motor we can see.
It is a little more buried, but not too bad.
It's difficult to get to, but accessible.
This controls the up arrow - air to windscreen
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zqCdTychcQ7g1uVu7

this seems to be working fine.

again on the video it was switched on then off.
 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Heidi993

[Heidi993]

Video #3
so this one look a likely candidate.
this motor is operated by the windscreen defrost button.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/QCYbC6VQj1jN4Jqf7

It looks difficult to get to, and a nightmare to put back in.
on the video, we switched the defrost button on, you can hear it, and it struggled to activate itself.
When we turned it off, it took quite a while to go back to the start position.
We turned the video off probably about 30 seconds before it came to a final rest, as my partner thought it had finished.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Heidi993

[Heidi993]

just in case anyone has a different model, here are the buttons we are talking about.
(i can't post an image :?)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ptqqqcexruhedry/2018_09_06_cayenne_heater_smaller.jpg?dl=0

 

I hope these make sense to the people who have had theirs out and wonder if anyone (Bekks?) can tell us:

1 - Is this the mixing servo?
2 - how would this restrict the warm air to the drivers side, as although it is a bit shakey in its operation, it does eventually open, and eventually close???

3 - do we need to remove anything else to remove this motor? we can get a bit onto the screws, and turns them, very very slowly.

 

thanks

 

Heidi

 

 

[bekks]

It might be helpful to get an overall photo - it was tough to tell which way was up. That said, I don't think any of those are your problem, so it's probably on the other side. The third one seems that it may not be working great, but it is at least working. The diagram on the first post of this thread shows the left hand arrangement for a LHD; the mixing servo is "D". Maybe check out the right hand side and see if it looks similar to that diagram.

[Rod Croskery]

Great photography.

 

You do realize that the three servos will come out as a unit if you remove the screws holding the aluminum plate in place?  That's not easy, but it is do-able.  Be sure to reconnect all of the servos before you put the plate back up in.  I forgot to do one and lost a full day getting the plate out and in again.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Rod Croskery

[Heidi993]

Bekks - hopefully this image will make sense.
We used the abcde one you were referring to - and the other one on this thread showing their exploded location.
i have had to mirror it so it makes sense to me, but it does now.
I think you are correct, that the three we can see and have posted videos of are - in the diagram -

#13 (the easy one) 
#12 the one working fine

#11 the one working but with issues.
unfortunately this means the one that is most likely the issue, 'D' is on the drivers side.
We (when I say we, it isn't so much me) have removed the trim etc on the drivers side, where A,B,C,D and E (1,2,4,7&8) are.
D and E are visible, but unbelievable buried.
A,B & C are somewhere above those - we know roughly where via the diagram, but can not see it being possible to even see them..

Similarly, 15 and 16 on the other side, we can only estimate their position ?

Rod, we just read your blog a third time.
I know you said you did it, and we do believe you,
But it looks virtually impossible to remove either any of the servos on the drivers side, let alone all of them on a plate.
And we can only see D and E.
When I say see, its a contortion to just see them.
If we weren't talking to you about this, we would never believe it was possible.
Do you think, with hindsight, the removal of the dash might be a better, and maybe even quicker option??

Thanks for all your help so far ?


 

[Heidi993]

1 hour ago, bekks said:

It might be helpful to get an overall photo

 

The images were the right way up.
Here is a photo of the near and the far servo, on the passenger (left) side.

I'll get some photos of the ones on the other side tomorrow,

 

Heidi

[bekks]

Now that you say that Heidi, it makes sense.

 

A, B, and C are not possible to remove from the bottom (as far as I know). But I'm pretty confident that D is the one you want. I had what sounds like the same symptoms as you - no temperature control on the driver's side - and replacing D fixed the problem. You need to remove E first to get it out of the way. It is a terrible job, but I got D out without removing the dash. A tiny ratchet with the right Torx bit was an absolute necessity. Also, I think I used a right angle screw driver a bit too (like this https://www.amazon.ca/TEKTON-2944-Offset-Screwdriver-3-Piece/dp/B000NY8OQU?th=1&psc=1&source=googleshopping&locale=en-CA&tag=googcana-20&ref=pd_sl_7qb2a118up_e). Removing the dash is a pretty big job, I would recommend you try to suffer through the pain of doing it upside down. I disconnected the KESSY (I think that's what it's called) module and it didn't seem to cause any problems, but I recall that people warned not to disconnect it. It is the box positioned right in front of the servo.

I've taken out E on a couple Cayennes and I can do it in less than 30 minutes. I would say that D will take a couple hours plus frustration breaks.

[Heidi993]

I just found this on a toureg thread:

"I was also getting tired of hearing all the clicking that was happening behind my dash so I too disassembled my dash this fall. Top and bottom. Once I tore apart the dash and really started looking at how things go together I noticed one significant thing. It's actually not necessary to take it apart. The flap motors are assembled in a set, on metal brackets. Once the motors are in the park position using the VAG-COM, you loosen two screws on each bracket that face down towards the floor of your vehicle and the whole "set" slides down and out. They are guided into place by two guide pins/screws. You can see these pin/screws on some of Redubbed's pictures. For example, the driver side has one bracket with three motors and one with two motors. With some patience you can actually remove all the flap motors with only the panels under the dash removed. I've tried. After I replaced one motor another started acting up and I didn't want to pull everything apart again so I pulled the driver side under-dash panel out, removed the two bracket screws and slid the bracket out. Removed the motor from the plate. Replaced it. Slid it back into place."

 

https://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f73/hvac-flap-motor-replacement-dash-removal-185361-2.html

However, Bekks, much as your post makes me optimistic, i'm not sure it will be possible for us.
As this post explains, we have the parking brake right up against the transmission tunnel, which is under E and D ?
It's late but I'll pop out and get a quick photo!

 

Now on RHD cars the right hand servo's are boxed in by the foot brake mechanism and holder (not a problem in LHD cars).

see http://www.specialistvehiclepreparations.com/blog/porsche-cayenne-heater-flap-replacement

 

I pondered this for a while as the above article says you have to remove the dash bar (which is basically impossible-I tried for about an hour to figure it out, but I couldn't budge it).

 

 

[Heidi993]

This could be a problem!!

 

 

 

[bekks]

Hmmm... Didn't realize the foot brake pedal was on that side.

I came across a couple people suggesting sliding the plate down, but I can't offer any comments on it.

[Heidi993]

Ok. so update on the servo saga.
This is, in the words of my partner, by far the most 'challenging' automotive task ever.
He has been doing the majority of the work, but i have been in there removing any screws he can't reach (of which there are many).

See the evidence!!!

 

[Heidi993]

So - here's where we are now,

We have the lower two on the left hand side, passenger side.
We have the bottom one on the right hand side removed, and are within sight of removing the the three on the top on the right hand side.

(after removing the foot brake etc.)

 

and a couple more questions>>

 

On the right hand side, the drivers side (both sides actually) there are supposed to be two servos at the bottom.
However, we have found on the drivers side there is only one.
Anyone shed any light on this?

We have opened one, to see whats going on inside.
Does anyone (Rod?) know which of the pins to attach 12V to move the arms without opening them?
 

and, does anyone with a RHD know which servos relate to the VW ones.
We are most likely going to buy new (after this experience!!!) as second hand ones might be on their way out..
All the servos look like they are the same basic part, with different arms on the back - is this correct?
Each servo looks to have a different ref number stamped on the back - like this one with TS, is this the way we would identify them?
 

 

 

[Rod Croskery]

We have opened one, to see whats going on inside.
Does anyone (Rod?) know which of the pins to attach 12V to move the arms without opening them?

 

There are five pins, a pair by themselves and another three.  The two, which I'll call 1 and 2, control the motor.

With a 12v charge from a small battery (I used a stair-lift battery), touch the leads to 1 and 2.  Observe.  Reverse the poles.  Observe.  The arm should cycle back and forth.  If it does not, open it and see why it isn't working.  In the case of mine, all but one had old, hardened grease blocking the gears.  The other one had a broken arm.  When the old grease went out and light petroleum grease went in, the servos went back to work.  If anything smells burned inside the servo when you open it, it's likely toast*. 

 

The servos seem very durable.  The grease isn't.  I blame Porsche for using a grease that fails after 125,000 km, even if that use was spread over 14 years.  My 2005 Lexus might have similar servos, but I'll likely never know.  They keep working, just like the ignition coils on the Japan-built car.

 

Regarding missing servos:  I could only find one on the passenger side plate in my LHD car.  No explanation from the manual.

 

 

REMEMBER!  Make sure all blue connectors are fastened to the servos before you put the plates back in place.

 

 

 

 

*Electronic things run on smoke, I think.  When the smoke is released, they don't work any more.

 

 

Edited September 9, 2018 by Rod Croskery
Additional information.

[bekks]

I believe in a 2009, you should have the updated style servo that was apparently more reliable. They are probably different part numbers than I used. I did find that the VW ones were exactly the same part number and a little cheaper.

I also recall that the number and position of servos wasn't always consistent with the documentation.

[Rod Croskery]

Heidi993

 

Anything further to report on your project?  

[Heidi993]

17 hours ago, Rod Croskery said:

Heidi993

 

Anything further to report on your project?  

 

Hi Rod, yes, here's where we are.
We got all the motors off the car.
On the plate with the top set of three motors, for some reason on one of them there were two of the three screws missing on one motor, and one from one of the other motors.
So we assume that might be why the demister wasn't working, as the motor is working, and the motor was turning instead of moving the flaps.
Below that on the second plate, we only have one motor not two.
We confirmed this with Porsche, there isn't a footwell flap, only a mixer flap, which was the main problem initially (cold air onto my feet).

 so we tested that motor and it didn't work.
we opened it and cleaned it, and it turned out it was working.
a new one from porsche was £170, and from VW £140.

So we gave the original one a try.

Back fitted to the car it was pumping out hot air to the footwell, so we put everything back.
After driving a few miles the air turned cold.
When tried later, it started hot again.
This morning it was pumping out cold air, than when i parked up and tried again it got warm, not hot.

So, we think,

It is this motor that is at fault.
It is an intermittent fault, and as it is the mixer motor, sometimes it is hot air, sometimes cold air, sometimes it is warm.
And we are most likely going to order a motor from VW and replace it.

Does that sound correct?

My partner said after doing it once, it is far easier to do the second time, so even though a few hours, it's not too traumatic (for him)