A/C Flap Actuator

[bekks]

Since removing the left footwell and temperature mixing actuators, and opening them up and trying to push them around a bit for better engagement, the temperature mixing one is still acting up, so I will be replacing it. Good to know that the later model years are improved and compatible. 

[dpatel710]

Alright guys, I think I am being dense here but forgive me as I've had my head in a finance book the past day or so. 

My P!G went from all air blowing out of the center vents (which was fine with me) to all air blowing out of the defroster. I was able to get by one time by performing the service position/adaption with VCDS to reset it. Now, it is once again stuck on defrost and the trick did not work. 

Soooo, I plan on pulling the dashboard out and replacing the motors. I have searched but did not come up with conclusive evidence on which motors/how many my car has. It is an 04 CTT with standard 2 zone a/c. I did pop the worm gear back in place once for the passenger side mixer by just pulling the glove box. When I did so, I only saw one motor on the passenger side. Most diagrams I see show 4(?!) motors for this side, hence my reaching out to the collective wisdom for how many motors are actually in my car. 

 

Can anyone help me out? I plan on ordering ALL the motors by end of the week and pulling the dash as I do not want to have to go back in and replace them again. 

Here are the error codes - 

6 Faults Found:
02100 -  Footwell Flap Motor (V261)
        000 -   - - Intermittent
02101 -  Side Vent Motor (V262)
        000 -   -
00657 -  Positioning Motor for Central Vents (V102)
        000 -   -
00710 -  Defroster Flap Positioning Motor (V107)
        000 -   - - Intermittent
02193 -  Supply Voltage for Regulator for Fresh Air Blower
        010 -  Open or Short to Plus
01592 -  Air Quality Sensor (G238)
        010 -  Open or Short to Plus

 

And link to the dash removal procedure for anyone that comes along searching behind me. It is for a touareg but should be applicable. 
http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f73/hvac-flap-motor-replacement-dash-removal-185361.html#/topics/185361?page=2&_k=d1c0hx

 

Thanks!

[lewisweller]

11 hours ago, dpatel710 said:

Alright guys, I think I am being dense here but forgive me as I've had my head in a finance book the past day or so. 

My P!G went from all air blowing out of the center vents (which was fine with me) to all air blowing out of the defroster. I was able to get by one time by performing the service position/adaption with VCDS to reset it. Now, it is once again stuck on defrost and the trick did not work. 

Soooo, I plan on pulling the dashboard out and replacing the motors. I have searched but did not come up with conclusive evidence on which motors/how many my car has. It is an 04 CTT with standard 2 zone a/c. I did pop the worm gear back in place once for the passenger side mixer by just pulling the glove box. When I did so, I only saw one motor on the passenger side. Most diagrams I see show 4(?!) motors for this side, hence my reaching out to the collective wisdom for how many motors are actually in my car. 

 

Can anyone help me out? I plan on ordering ALL the motors by end of the week and pulling the dash as I do not want to have to go back in and replace them again. 

Here are the error codes - 

6 Faults Found:
02100 -  Footwell Flap Motor (V261)
        000 -   - - Intermittent
02101 -  Side Vent Motor (V262)
        000 -   -
00657 -  Positioning Motor for Central Vents (V102)
        000 -   -
00710 -  Defroster Flap Positioning Motor (V107)
        000 -   - - Intermittent
02193 -  Supply Voltage for Regulator for Fresh Air Blower
        010 -  Open or Short to Plus
01592 -  Air Quality Sensor (G238)
        010 -  Open or Short to Plus

 

And link to the dash removal procedure for anyone that comes along searching behind me. It is for a touareg but should be applicable. 
http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f73/hvac-flap-motor-replacement-dash-removal-185361.html#/topics/185361?page=2&_k=d1c0hx

 

Thanks!

Have you considered all these codes are looking more like a power,wiring/control module issue rather than all flap motors going dead in coincidence?   

I would be confirming power first (battery good? What has supply voltage regulator to fresh air blower got to do with the flaps?) and also looking for corroded wiring connectors, wet floor cables and corroded plug to control module where ever that is? Some model suffer with water collecting in the scuttle panel area where the wet fuse box is.....

Some more investigation I suggest my friend..... Good luck keep us posted. 

[Rod Croskery]

All I can add to this is to suggest that later-model AC actuators are easier to keep running after installation.  I replaced six of seven of mine ('04 Cayenne S) with the equivalent parts out of an '08 CS (eBay) and they work fine.  The second box on the right side in "Ruby" is still an '04, and all winter the passenger dash vent has been without heat, though the side window defrost and windshield defrost were o.k.  I don't know whether the floor vent worked or not, but the overall comfort level in the car for winter driving was quite good because of the excellent heated seats.

 

The diagram in the manual calls for more AC actuators than I could actually find under the dash on the right.  

 

I did not remove the dash to make the repair, just slid the plates out from below.  

 

If you're working on the left side plates, there's one blue wiring connector which must be fastened before the plate goes up into place.  

 

As I recall, only one of the actuators I removed was actually broken.  It had a slightly longer arm than the shortest ones, and the arm had snapped off.  I think it was on the top plate, left side, if I recall correctly.

 

 

 

 

[dpatel710]

10 hours ago, lewisweller said:

Have you considered all these codes are looking more like a power,wiring/control module issue rather than all flap motors going dead in coincidence?   

I would be confirming power first (battery good? What has supply voltage regulator to fresh air blower got to do with the flaps?) and also looking for corroded wiring connectors, wet floor cables and corroded plug to control module where ever that is? Some model suffer with water collecting in the scuttle panel area where the wet fuse box is.....

Some more investigation I suggest my friend..... Good luck keep us posted. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the tips! The battery was replaced less than a year ago. I haven't tested it for voltage but haven't had any other strange things that usually accompany battery problems. 

 

It's more like the motors just slowly died one by one till I got stuck with only the defrost vent open. They worked intermittently until they failed. From what I searched, it seems to be a common problem on early 955s and I have the associated clicking noises from the dash to go with it. 

 

I did try unplugging/reseating the connections at the back of the hvac control panel to no avail. Can you point me to the water collecting areas to check? I did clear all the drains when I purchased the car so I did not think to check this. 

Edited April 21, 2017 by dpatel710

[dpatel710]

4 hours ago, Rod Croskery said:

All I can add to this is to suggest that later-model AC actuators are easier to keep running after installation.  I replaced six of seven of mine ('04 Cayenne S) with the equivalent parts out of an '08 CS (eBay) and they work fine.  The second box on the right side in "Ruby" is still an '04, and all winter the passenger dash vent has been without heat, though the side window defrost and windshield defrost were o.k.  I don't know whether the floor vent worked or not, but the overall comfort level in the car for winter driving was quite good because of the excellent heated seats.

 

The diagram in the manual calls for more AC actuators than I could actually find under the dash on the right.  

 

I did not remove the dash to make the repair, just slid the plates out from below.  

 

If you're working on the left side plates, there's one blue wiring connector which must be fastened before the plate goes up into place.  

 

As I recall, only one of the actuators I removed was actually broken.  It had a slightly longer arm than the shortest ones, and the arm had snapped off.  I think it was on the top plate, left side, if I recall correctly.

 

 

 

 

 

This is excellent news! How was it sliding the plate out from the left side?

 

Honestly, getting the plate out of the right side was such a PITA that I was going into this with the mindset to pull the dash. 

[lewisweller]

3 hours ago, dpatel710 said:

Thanks for the tips! The battery was replaced less than a year ago. I haven't tested it for voltage but haven't had any other strange things that usually accompany battery problems. 

 

It's more like the motors just slowly died one by one till I got stuck with only the defrost vent open. They worked intermittently until they failed. From what I searched, it seems to be a common problem on early 955s and I have the associated clicking noises from the dash to go with it. 

 

I did try unplugging/reseating the connections at the back of the hvac control panel to no avail. Can you point me to the water collecting areas to check? I did clear all the drains when I purchased the car so I did not think to check this. 

Water issues are normally:

1. Sunroof drain holes blocked, use air line to blow them out periodically. The water will run into the head liner and down the A pillars, and into the fuse supports and onto the floor and wire harness. 

 

2. The AC evaporator drain gets blocked and the water runs into the floor carpets and wire harness. You can pull the drain pipe where it goes from the inside of the passenger footwear through the bulk head and drips out from the firewall side onto the ground. 

 

3. The scuttle panel has drain runs on both sides, one side is the Ecu location and the is next to the wet fuse box. 

 

 

4. Sill drains which are well documented and video. 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2017 by lewisweller

[dpatel710]

Thanks lewisweller! Great resource. These are the drains I cleared when I purchased the vehicle. My floors look dry and the drains are still clear. For the scuttle/firewall drains, I pulled the rubber nipple out when I had the wheel liners out. It helps let water flow out even when debris builds up there. 

I did order the servo motors off ebay per rods suggestion. Searched for "cayenne ac box motors." Got a set out of a 957 with 2 zone a/c. 7 motors total: side vent, center vent, defrost, footwell, driver mixer, passenger mixer, and fresh air servos. Will try to replace the driver's side 5 motors from under the dashboard by sliding the tray out and report back. 

[Rod Croskery]

Good luck, and try to avoid putting pressure on your upper spine against the tunnel while working up in there.  It took me 11 phsyio treatments to get the use of my left hand back after repeated sessions under the steering wheel.  Pinched a couple of nerves where they come out of the spine.  The physio guy says it's a common, career-ending injury of welders.  My typing skills returned in about two months.

 

Would I do the job again?  Considering the benefit derived from the repair, I think so, but with more care for my body.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Rod Croskery

[Rod Croskery]

On April 21, 2017 at 11:10 AM, dpatel710 said:

This is excellent news! How was it sliding the plate out from the left side?

 

Honestly, getting the plate out of the right side was such a PITA that I was going into this with the mindset to pull the dash. 

 

Getting the plates out of the left side made the right side look easy.  The most interesting bit was seeing the level of desperation of the previous guy who had been in there:  he screwed into anything plastic he could after losing the little metal clip.  Then to hide his sloppy work, he installed one of those security screws to keep anyone else out.  The kicker is that this car supposedly had had only one mechanic since it left the dealer at 30,000 km.

 

I'd be very interested to see a set of photos of a dash removal on a Cayenne.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Rod Croskery

[dpatel710]

On 4/22/2017 at 5:40 PM, Rod Croskery said:

 

Getting the plates out of the left side made the right side look easy.  The most interesting bit was seeing the level of desperation of the previous guy who had been in there:  he screwed into anything plastic he could after losing the little metal clip.  Then to hide his sloppy work, he installed one of those security screws to keep anyone else out.  The kicker is that this car supposedly had had only one mechanic since it left the dealer at 30,000 km.

 

I'd be very interested to see a set of photos of a dash removal on a Cayenne.

 

The dash removal actually doesn't look too bad from the manual. Lots of trim bits to pop off which may prove nasty with 14 year old plastics. 

 

Not sure if I can link to this here? If not, mods please delete. 

Pages 9611 - 9620

http://workshop-manuals.com/porsche/cayenne_(9pa)/v6-3.2l/instrument_panel_gauges_and_warning_indicators/dashboard/instrument_panel/component_information/service_and_repair/removing_and_installing_dashboard_cover_on_the_drivers_side/page_9611/

 

[dpatel710]

Finally had a chance to get around to swapping out the servo motors. It wasn’t too bad following the service manual. Took me about 5hrs but I work slowly.

 

The following post has the service manual instructions in it. 

 

The passenger side was simple. Remove belt line trim and remove the glove box, then you have access to the two servo motors. One on the a/c box for the passenger mixer temperature motor. Then one under the blower for fresh air.

 

The driver’s side was a little more involved but after removing all of the bits, there was plenty of room to work with.

 

I set the motors to service position with VCDS and then disconnected the battery. I took off the belt line trim, removed the knee panel, and removed the lower panel. I also removed the metal knee panel to gain access to the area behind it. Per Rod's tips, do not remove the cover off the heater core. It is unnecessary (not to mention the screw location is inaccessible). 

 

I then followed the manual instructions and removed everything from the plastic carrier. Removed the two relay boards, the electrical box with a bunch of plugs, and kessy.

 

With all of these out, I then removed the plastic carrier/housing that held everything in place. There is one nut near the steering wheel and it also clips on here. On the opposite side, there is a circle bit of plastic that hooks into the metal about midway behind the steering wheel. Then at the back, there is a portion that goes into the firewall. Once this piece is free, it can be jimmied out and placed to the side. This gives plenty of room to access the servo motors. Be sure to remember to plug in the small connector on the back of the plastic carrier housing to the buzzer (?) when reassembling. 

 

I swapped out the motors and used the battery to move the new motors into the service position. Pins 5 and 6 are the ones to use for powering and moving the arm to "service position" which is parallel with the guides.  The servos have lettering on them to indicate the position (DF – defrost, VS- vent side, VC – vent center). I used this to match the new motors to the old ones.

 

Installing the trays, I squeezed my fingers in between the tray and servo to check that it slid into the flap properly. Plugged everything in just to test that the flaps work. Once this was verified, I put everything back on and had a beer!

 

Some pics and notes below:

 

All the pieces to remove. A – plastic carrier. B – Kessy. C – electrical box. D – metal knee panel.

 

The plastic carrier/housing for all the electronics. 1 - the part that goes into the firewall. 2 - Where it hooks into the metal bracket midway behind the steering wheel. 3 - location of the 10mm nut. 

 

Everything removed + Access to the motors. 

 

 

Tray with old and new motors. 

 

The yellow circles are the screws to loosen which help align and hold the trays. The red circles (4 total, one not pictured) are the fasteners which must be removed to slide the trays off.

 

Bottom of black box to reference. 

 

Top of black box for reference. 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2018 by dpatel710
photobucket stopped hosting pics

[ciaka]

Is #10 (where all parts are listed) the servo motor for central vents (right - pass side)?

I have error code 714 - servo motor for central vents right.  Also have error 710 - servo motor for defrost flap.

 

 

1.  Wanted to make sure I get the parts right.

2.  Wanted to confirm if there is any way to replace the defrost flap servo without removing entire dash.

 

Thank you.

[dpatel710]

According to the earlier post, the servo motor you are looking for is 7L0-907-511-AH front, center right vent flap. I cannot confirm this as I only had one center vent flap. 

 

And yes, I was able to replace the defrost flap motor without pulling the dashboard. In my post above, the tray with 3 motors had the defrost flap motor. I was able to access this one after removing the lower tray with the 2 motors. 

[Rod Croskery]

Excellent, informative, and concise writeup.  I particularly value the photo of the screws which hold the plates in place on the left side.

 

You did not mention if any electronic components misbehaved when you put them back into service.  

[dpatel710]

2 hours ago, Rod Croskery said:

Excellent, informative, and concise writeup.  I particularly value the photo of the screws which hold the plates in place on the left side.

 

You did not mention if any electronic components misbehaved when you put them back into service.  

 

Thanks! Surprisingly, no electronic trouble.

 

I remembered to unplug the battery after I disconnected kessy and the car wouldn't stop beeping, doh! After connecting everything, it took a couple of key turns for things to sync up but fired up fine. Air suspension and traction light were on (happens everytime I disconnect the battery) but after a minute of driving, all was back to normal. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by dpatel710

[ciaka]

Cool.  So I will need:

7L0-907-511-AB front, defroster vent flap (1) $69

7L0-907-511-AL front, right mixing flap (10) $78

 

Questions:

1.  Anyone knows what the 05 Cayenne TT numbers for these will be?

2.  While I am at it, is there anything else worth replacing at same time?  The only codes I seem to have now are the 714 and 710.

 

Thank you.

 

 

16 hours ago, dpatel710 said:

According to the earlier post, the servo motor you are looking for is 7L0-907-511-AH front, center right vent flap. I cannot confirm this as I only had one center vent flap. 

 

And yes, I was able to replace the defrost flap motor without pulling the dashboard. In my post above, the tray with 3 motors had the defrost flap motor. I was able to access this one after removing the lower tray with the 2 motors. 

 

 

 

 

[koolkat1973]

I just found out that my 06 Cayenne Turbo S have a bad center servo motor.  Using Durametric, it looks like the "Servo motor for center vents" are stuck.   Based on what I see on this thread and others, there are 2 Servo motor for the center vents (#16 & #3 in the diagram above).  Does anyone know if I can just order the Toureg part number for the 06 Cayenne and can I replace those 2 servo motors without having to remove the dash?  

 

Thank you very much in advance for the help.

 

Kiet

[dpatel710]

Yes, the servos can be replaced without removing the dash. You will have to go from underneath the driver's side dashboard and remove all the electronics in the way. Not bad, just time-consuming. 

 

VW/Audi parts should work but I'd recommend ordering a set of 957 motors and doing all of them. It's cheap enough (<$100) and not something you want to do again. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by dpatel710

[koolkat1973]

2 hours ago, dpatel710 said:

Yes, the servos can be replaced without removing the dash. You will have to go from underneath the driver's side dashboard and remove all the electronics in the way. Not bad, just time-consuming. 

 

VW/Audi parts should work but I'd recommend ordering a set of 958 motors and doing all of them. It's cheap enough (<$100) and not something you want to do again. 

 

Thanks for the info.  I'm trying to access your photos from your previous post but cannot see it.  Do you know how I can see those pictures?  Thanks.

[ciaka]

In case folks wonder whether there is a process for servo removal and install, I found this link, with details on many steps.  Will supplement above info well.

If you want to become versed in replacing the servos, I would recommend reading in this order:

 

1.  Thread on servos here

2.  Another thread on servos

3.  Shop manual steps to remove servos

 

Good luck

[ciaka]

...as another update, I compared the servo motor Porsche part numbers, between 2003-2006 Cayenne, and 2007-2010.

Compared servos for front and rear AC zones.  All numbers are identical.  All of the 2007-2010 cayenne parts refer to 955 numbers.

This means identical parts, so as long as you get them new, you will be set. 

Getting used parts means you will take 50/50 chance.  It may work, or it may not.  If the part is old, chances increase that it will not work correctly, or will fail sooner than later.

For all the work to do on removing these, it will be wiser to just get the new parts.

 

[Heidi993]

Hi - I am having a problem with my 09 Cayenne, RHD, which sounds like these fixes address.

There is a clicking behind the dash, and it blows cold air onto my feet.
(I have a RHD car)
the passenger side is warm (left hand side) 
The screen on my side (drivers side, right side) does not de-mist, which is painful in the morning, and is only going to get worse.
I have taken it to two garages.
One fitted a new thermostat, another said they didn't want to attempt removing the dash, as it would be very time consuming, and they didn't know what they were doing.

It looks like it is flap motors, of which there are a few.
I am looking for a tutorial on how to access them on the right hand side of a RHD car?
Reading here, it seems they can be mostly accessed without the dash removal, but there is a central one for the vents to demist which needs it - is that correct.

All the info here is very confusing as people say the drivers side is easier, but i'm not sure which side they are referring to!!!

One other question is, do I need something to set the servos/motors into service mode, so they are in the correct position to start with?
If so would this be duratrans (which we have looked at before, but I think i read somewhere that duratrans doesn't set them) or VAG?
If this is the case I will need to get these before attempting to remove anything.


Thanks - Heidi

[Rod Croskery]

The online manuals show the layout of the servos in chapter HVAC.pdf, from about page 35 on.  These diagrams provide adequate information on positioning of the servos for re-installation.  It doesn't matter where they are for removal.  You can adjust the arms on your bench with a small 12v power source and a couple of leads.  Contacts 1 and 2 can be teased to operate the servo motor.  Reverse the contacts to reverse the motor until you have each in the position it's shown in the diagram.  Then positioning of the servos becomes the least of your problems.

 

Don't start the job without a set of long torqx screwdrivers and a tiny ratchet with assorted torqx bits.

 

My experience in replacing the servos on a 2004 CS with left hand drive may not translate directly to a car with right hand drive, but I wrote about it at 

https://rodcroskery.wordpress.com/category/2004-porsche-cayenne-review (reverse chronological order September 18, 2016) and  posted comments on page one of this discussion.

 

[Heidi993]

I'm going to add a link so I don't lose it.
https://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f73/hvac-flap-motor-replacement-dash-removal-185361.html
In this write up, unfortunately there are no pictures left ?
He also says:
'Make sure you have access to VAG-COM too as you'll need to set the motors in "Service Position" before starting and then re-learn them all when you're done.'
VW Touareg (7L) Heating/Air Conditioning - Ross-Tech Wiki 

 

So does the dash have to come out, or can, the motors be reached?

And is VCSD necessary, and if it is - is it preferable to durametric, and can dutrametric even set the motors in service mode?
 

Heidi