Porsche PIWIS.......

[Cloudsurfer]

So..... is this remotely legit, or just more Chinese knockoff junk......

http://www.vtoolshop.com/obd-code-scanners-porsche-piwis-tester-kts520_p169.html

[Loren]

It is not legit. Porsche ONLY leases PIWIS testers - they do not sell them.

It does look like all the pieces - but no manual access (online), parts, or program updates. Looks like you would need to supply the laptop too.

I am always suspecting of all 5 star reviews - with no bad comments at all. Let the buyer beware.

If you you decide to buy it let us know how it works out.

[Cloudsurfer]

It is not legit. Porsche ONLY leases PIWIS testers - they do not sell them.

It does look like all the pieces - but no manual access (online), parts, or program updates. Looks like you would need to supply the laptop too.

I am always suspecting of all 5 star reviews - with no bad comments at all. Let the buyer beware.

If you you decide to buy it let us know how it works out.

Scares the crap out of me too....

I know Porsche only leased PIWIS testers, but then I know some shops who have "standalone" units running on laptops, that work. Protomotive will sell you one for $5k, which, while not cheap, is guaranteed to work.

[JFP in PA]

There are some "knock-offs" running around at a variety of prices, some are clones of older versions of the software, some are not even a Porsche system (some are even older versions of the Durametric software). Problem remains that even one based on the older PIWIS software is both out of date and cannot be updated with the latest version of the software when Porsche adds new stuff, like the ability to turn off the clutch oil cooling system when servicing the PDK. You have to be very careful when spending thousands to buy something from a Chinese website that Porsche has already told you they will not sell you; you could end up with something questionable and of very limited utility, and with no recourse to get your money back.

[Cloudsurfer]

There are some "knock-offs" running around at a variety of prices, some are clones of older versions of the software, some are not even a Porsche system (some are even older versions of the Durametric software). Problem remains that even one based on the older PIWIS software is both out of date and cannot be updated with the latest version of the software when Porsche adds new stuff, like the ability to turn off the clutch oil cooling system when servicing the PDK. You have to be very careful when spending thousands to buy something from a Chinese website that Porsche has already told you they will not sell you; you could end up with something questionable and of very limited utility, and with no recourse to get your money back.

Fully agree. I'm to the point where I don't buy anything online without paying with a credit card, for that exact reason.

In terms of usefulness, if it will handle 996 and 997, and maybe a Cayenne if I ever pick one up, that's fine (for now, who knows what I'll want/ need in 5 years).

[spiffyjiff]

i always love the wording of cheap foreign knockoffs, "PIWIS is the latest inspect equipment of Company". um, what? anyway, my bud owns a (pretty successful) general auto repair garage. he has one of these and said it works just fine and that i should buy one too. no way. i live by the rule "there is no such thing as a free lunch". but he is a cheap bastard and buys stuff like this and of course HIS luck is such that most things like this work out just fine for him. and me? I'M the guy who evens out the stats - if i bought it, it would fail within seconds and i would be out 2 grand! :p

[Mijostyn]

BOSCH...made in China? $1800 buys a lot of shop time. When it comes to the white collar stuff I think I'll let the pros have at it. Not that I'm against DIY. But, there is a point of diminishing returns and risk.

(check out the reviews. A real riot in butchered English)

On a more serious note. JFP, Loren will Porsche lease a PIWIS tester to an indy shop? If not how do the Indys deal with this restriction in trade?

Edited June 29, 2013 by Mijostyn

[Loren]

Yes, Porsche sold PST2 to shop but now lease PIWIS to shops. All you need is a shop and the money (about $18,000 per year).

[Mijostyn]

I hope that is the same price they charge the Porsche dealers. If it is not and I were an Indy i would get everyone together for a class action suite.

[JFP in PA]

I hope that is the same price they charge the Porsche dealers. If it is not and I were an Indy i would get everyone together for a class action suite.

There already has been more than one "constraint of trade" action at the Federal level claiming that all of the OEM's have something like this only to prevent independent shops from competing with the dealerships; but each time the OEM's lawyers got it thrown out.

[Mijostyn]

JFP it is like racing. Whomever has the most money wins. In this case, the way around the OEMs is to get a large group together to pool resources and through the media get political correctness on your side. But, you have to have a large group willing to fight to the death or you will just get run over. Thus the class action suite.

[JFP in PA]

JFP it is like racing. Whomever has the most money wins. In this case, the way around the OEMs is to get a large group together to pool resources and through the media get political correctness on your side. But, you have to have a large group willing to fight to the death or you will just get run over. Thus the class action suite.

The constraint of trade was class action, and it still failed......twice.

[Mijostyn]

That sucks. I guess Porsche buffs will have to support those Indys willing to spend the bucks to support our cars.

[JFP in PA]

That sucks. I guess Porsche buffs will have to support those Indys willing to spend the bucks to support our cars.

You should also be support firms like Durametric software who continue to constantly improve an already excellent package that allows both "backyard" mechanics and commercial shops to completely avoid the OEM system.

[Mijostyn]

JFP, You certainly can not argue over the price of even the pro Durametric cable. But, it's reputation is extremely variable (perhaps because there are fakes on the market) and it does not seem to perform all the functions of the Porsche unit.. What about programming the various control units in the car like the PCM or PASM? How often are you left out in left field?

[JFP in PA]

As a shop, we worry more about reading and resetting codes, system activation functions, and other service related issues. The Durametric is pretty good in those areas. Coding or programing is not something that we encounter frequently, so it is not that much of a downside issue.

The Durametric is not perfect, and in fact may only be 75-85% as capable as the current OEM PIWIS system, but many of the so called "problems" you see people ranting about on the web are more often than not operator related, and many can be traced back directly to Porsche. Durametric cannot directly copy the functions of the PIWIS system, Porsche owns and closely protects those rights. So they are left to find a work around to get to the same end result in order to avoid Porsche's legal rath. Add in Porsche's penchant for throwing curves at you (some cars have DME's that are totally different from their normal architecture and are even from another supplier; Porsche knows all about it, Durametric has to figure out why a certain car does not communicate correctly while others of the same model year are fine) and problems are going to crop up. Porsche also seems to not totally respect their own demarcation lines on things like which version of the DME, ABS, or PSM software should be in the car because of the model year, and a vehicle that should have a 7.2 DME really has a 7.8. Try and scan the car as the 7.2 it should be, and you get weird or no results; reset the software to 7.8 and everything is fine. Now stop for a moment and think about what can go wrong when someone with little or even no diagnostic experience tries to asses a problem.

Even the mighty PIWIS is not immune to problems, I know of several incidents where Porsche techs could not communicate with the cars, and ended up calling around to independent shops for ideas. I have also heard that there are "tricks" to getting the PIWIS to work on some cars that the techs pass around amongst themselves as well.

We seriously looked at acquiring a legitimate PIWIS unit, but the combination of the outrageous cost structure, the fact that Porsche burned early lessors of the first PIWIS when they released the new system, and the fact that while the lease documentation clearly states that systems leased by "outside entities" (read non dealers) will have "certain functions disabled", you cannot get a straight answer as to what is left out of the system before you plunk down nearly twenty grand a year, we deicided that the shop is both creative and intuitive enough to run with the Durametric Pro system.

[Mijostyn]

JFP you are preaching to the choir on that one. PIWIS lead a Porsche tech around by the nose on my car and it was only intuition that finally solved the problem. It can not be questioned that experience is the best of all teachers. Like I said before, I am more than happy to leave the white collar stuff to the pros. I have enough fun balancing wheels and changing break pads.

[JFP in PA]

JFP you are preaching to the choir on that one. PIWIS lead a Porsche tech around by the nose on my car and it was only intuition that finally solved the problem. It can not be questioned that experience is the best of all teachers. Like I said before, I am more than happy to leave the white collar stuff to the pros. I have enough fun balancing wheels and changing break pads.

You have to remember that all diagnostic scanners, regardless of origin or price, function more like a compass than a GPS unit; they can point you in the right direction, but you still have to apply basic diagnostic logic and experience to arrive at the correct answer to a problem.

[Loren]

JFP you are preaching to the choir on that one. PIWIS lead a Porsche tech around by the nose on my car and it was only intuition that finally solved the problem. It can not be questioned that experience is the best of all teachers. Like I said before, I am more than happy to leave the white collar stuff to the pros. I have enough fun balancing wheels and changing break pads.

You have to remember that all diagnostic scanners, regardless of origin or price, function more like a compass than a GPS unit; they can point you in the right direction, but you still have to apply basic diagnostic logic and experience to arrive at the correct answer to a problem.

Well said!

[JFP in PA]

JFP you are preaching to the choir on that one. PIWIS lead a Porsche tech around by the nose on my car and it was only intuition that finally solved the problem. It can not be questioned that experience is the best of all teachers. Like I said before, I am more than happy to leave the white collar stuff to the pros. I have enough fun balancing wheels and changing break pads.

You have to remember that all diagnostic scanners, regardless of origin or price, function more like a compass than a GPS unit; they can point you in the right direction, but you still have to apply basic diagnostic logic and experience to arrive at the correct answer to a problem.

Well said!

Thanks. I occasionally do have moments of lucidity............. :eek:

[binger]

JFP Elegantly said!

The sad thing is even so called professionals in our industry think pull the code change the part.

[Mijostyn]

JFP you are preaching to the choir on that one. PIWIS lead a Porsche tech around by the nose on my car and it was only intuition that finally solved the problem. It can not be questioned that experience is the best of all teachers. Like I said before, I am more than happy to leave the white collar stuff to the pros. I have enough fun balancing wheels and changing break pads.

You have to remember that all diagnostic scanners, regardless of origin or price, function more like a compass than a GPS unit; they can point you in the right direction, but you still have to apply basic diagnostic logic and experience to arrive at the correct answer to a problem.

Well said!

Thanks. I occasionally do have moments of lucidity............. :eek:[/quote

Not me.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Loren

[Mijostyn]

Not me.

[Mijostyn]

Now I am stuttering.

[Serge944]

Gentlemen, if you are looking for a PIWIS 1, look no further than here: http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/799773-for-sale-piwis-factory-diagnostic-tool.html

I've put together a few of these machines for fellow GT3 owners... This is the real deal.